Forums/Armchair-GM

Did Ray Shero Make Any Bad Trades In Pittsburgh

Created by: vic997
Initial Creation Date: Jul 30, 2019
Published: Jul 30 at 11:31 am
Team: 2019-20 Pittsburgh Penguins
Team Explanation
Shero got a lot of crap for things out of his control.
MAF was abolustely horrendous for 3-4 straight playoffs with absolutely stacked Pens rosters.
His trades (not signings) were mostly all wins. He did exactly what he needed to do to make sure the Pens didn't waste prime Crosby and Malkin.

Feb 26, 2008:
Pens Get: Marian Hossa, Pascal Dupuis
Atlanta Gets: Colby Armstrong, Angelo Esposito (bust), Erik Christiensen, 2008 1st (bust)
Hossa helped bring Pens to finals with 26 pts in 20 games
Dupuis had a career high 59 pts and was a consistent 15-20 goal scorer for the Pens.

March 4, 2009:
Pens Get: Bill Guerin
NYI Get: Cond. 3rd (Guerin got 15 pts in pens 2009 cup run)

Feb 21, 2011:
PENS GET: JAMES NEAL, MATT NISKANEN
DALLAS GETS: Alex Goligoski
-His best trade by far. Aboluste robbery

June 4, 2012:
Pens get Tomas Vokoun for a 7th from Washington.
(Vokoun had to constantly bail fleury out when he was not on his game)

June 22, 2012:
Pens get: Brandon Sutter, Brian Dumoulin, 2012 8th overall - used for Pouliot
Carolina got: Jordan Staal

He got a damn second round pick for Tyler Kennedy
He got Jarome Iginla for literally ZERO! - a near ppg player that year

Worst Trades:
Getting Douglas Murray for 2 2nds
Getting Goc for a 3rd and 5th
Buried
  • Casey DeSmith: $175,000 ($1,250,000)
  • Erik Gudbranson: $2,925,000 ($4,000,000)
  • Matt Murray: $2,675,000 ($3,750,000)
  • Brandon Tanev: $2,425,000 ($3,500,000)
  • Alex Galchenyuk: $3,825,000 ($4,900,000)
  • Justin Schultz: $4,425,000 ($5,500,000)
  • Patric Hörnqvist: $4,225,000 ($5,300,000)
  • Nick Bjugstad: $3,025,000 ($4,100,000)
  • Jack Johnson: $2,175,000 ($3,250,000)
  • Jared McCann: $175,000 ($1,250,000)
  • Jake Guentzel: $4,925,000 ($6,000,000)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2020
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
2021
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
2022
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
4$81,500,000$66,800,416$132,500$132,500$14,699,584
Left WingCenterRight Wing
PIT
Crosby, Sidney
$8,700,000
C
NMC
UFA - 6
PIT
Malkin, Evgeni
$9,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 3
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
PIT
Dumoulin, Brian
$4,100,000
LD
UFA - 4
PIT
Letang, Kris
$7,250,000
RD
NMC NTC
UFA - 3
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
PIT
Rust, Bryan
$3,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 3
PIT
Simon, Dominik
$750,000
RW, LW
RFA - 1
PIT
Angello, Anthony
$833,750
C
RFA - 1
PIT
Haggerty, Ryan
$675,000
RW
UFA - 1
PIT
Aston-Reese, Zach
$1,000,000
LW, RW
RFA - 2
PIT
Blueger, Teddy
$750,000
C, LW
RFA - 2
PIT
Drozg, Jan
$809,166
LW, RW
RFA - 3

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Jul 30 at 1:03
#26
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 421
Likes: 121
Quoting: pharrow
what's the point? Exactly what I said is the point. MAF was sent packing because Murray didn't blow it in the playoffs year after year.


Oh my bad. I Misunderstood what you wrote
Jul 30 at 1:07
#27
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 421
Likes: 121
Quoting: dgfresh78
I do the only thing that is different in Toronto is that the supporting cast is elite. But I’d still take Sid and Geno in their primes over Matthews and Tavares. This is coming from someone who basically worships what Kyle Dubas is doing in Toronto.


Tbh. I think Toronto still didn't get better defensively. Andersen gets peppered with shots every single game and prob still will.
That era where Geno and Sid just dominated was incredible to watch. Geno was incredibly underrated at the time.
I'm hoping that with Galchenyuk, Malkin finally gets a better supporting cast on his line.
It sucks because if Simon knew how to finish, he would score 30 goals alongisde crosby or malkin.
Jul 30 at 1:17
#28
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 275
Quoting: vic997
Tbh. I think Toronto still didn't get better defensively. Andersen gets peppered with shots every single game and prob still will.
That era where Geno and Sid just dominated was incredible to watch. Geno was incredibly underrated at the time.
I'm hoping that with Galchenyuk, Malkin finally gets a better supporting cast on his line.
It sucks because if Simon knew how to finish, he would score 30 goals alongisde crosby or malkin.


At this point I’d take 15 from Simon with how good he is in terms of possession and generating scoring chances. He’s probably a perfect match for Geno’s line.
Jul 30 at 2:31
#29
BrandonDubinskyGoat
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 453
Quoting: vic997
Tbh. I think Toronto still didn't get better defensively. Andersen gets peppered with shots every single game and prob still will.
That era where Geno and Sid just dominated was incredible to watch. Geno was incredibly underrated at the time.
I'm hoping that with Galchenyuk, Malkin finally gets a better supporting cast on his line.
It sucks because if Simon knew how to finish, he would score 30 goals alongisde crosby or malkin.


Quoting: dgfresh78
At this point I’d take 15 from Simon with how good he is in terms of possession and generating scoring chances. He’s probably a perfect match for Geno’s line.


Do you guys believe Simon is better than Sheary?
Jul 30 at 2:49
#30
BrandonDubinskyGoat
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 453
Quoting: jspenc40
Glad he waited until DC to get his Cup though


Quoting: pharrow
what's the point? Exactly what I said is the point. MAF was sent packing because Murray didn't blow it in the playoffs year after year.


Quoting: dgfresh78
I do the only thing that is different in Toronto is that the supporting cast is elite. But I’d still take Sid and Geno in their primes over Matthews and Tavares. This is coming from someone who basically worships what Kyle Dubas is doing in Toronto.


Quoting: jspenc40
I think Shero's best moments came when he was able to get "throw-in" players in these deals (Dupuis, Niskanen, etc.) that ended up being stars in their own right


Quoting: Hissam87
True that. As good as JR was during the cup runs he has matched that with stupidity the last couple years.


Quoting: vic997
Shero wouldn't have signed JJ or Tanev at those terms


Quoting: cnb17
and now NJ is LOADED and could make a serious run for the Metro. Still don't think they beat the Caps out but the way Pitt is right now, they'd be lucky to make the playoffs. Defense is horrible and that bottom six may be worse. SMH


Quoting: cnb17
and now NJ is LOADED and could make a serious run for the Metro. Still don't think they beat the Caps out but the way Pitt is right now, they'd be lucky to make the playoffs. Defense is horrible and that bottom six may be worse. SMH


Quoting: jspenc40
Glad he waited until DC to get his Cup though


Quoting: pharrow
what's the point? Exactly what I said is the point. MAF was sent packing because Murray didn't blow it in the playoffs year after year.


Quoting: dgfresh78
I think regardless of Cups or whatever Sid and Geno were better than Toews and Kane. There’s really never been any debate in my opinion.


Quoting: jspenc40
I think Shero's best moments came when he was able to get "throw-in" players in these deals (Dupuis, Niskanen, etc.) that ended up being stars in their own right


Quoting: Hissam87
True that. As good as JR was during the cup runs he has matched that with stupidity the last couple years.


Quoting: vic997
We have GMJR to thank for Bonino though smile
Dumo is the best piece from that trade imo
He's the best and most consistent defender on the Pens roster


Quoting: cnb17
and now NJ is LOADED and could make a serious run for the Metro. Still don't think they beat the Caps out but the way Pitt is right now, they'd be lucky to make the playoffs. Defense is horrible and that bottom six may be worse. SMH


Recently @MadmanFromMadison was arguing with me on why she felt Toews is a better hockey player than Crosby. She brought up some interesting stats: In head to head matchups throughout their careers (14 games), Toews has 18 points and a plus 10 rating whereas Crosby has only 7 points and a -14 rating. What’d y’all think of this?
Jul 30 at 3:03
#31
cnb17
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 319
Likes: 28
Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
Recently @MadmanFromMadison was arguing with me on why she felt Toews is a better hockey player than Crosby. She brought up some interesting stats: In head to head matchups throughout their careers (14 games), Toews has 18 points and a plus 10 rating whereas Crosby has only 7 points and a -14 rating. What’d y’all think of this?


I feel that both are guys you would want to start a franchise with....having said that, I personally feel that during the 5 years that Chicago was unbeatable, it's hard not to agree with these stats. But, I feel that Crosby has proven that he can make anyone on his line a superstar (Sheary, Rust, Simon, etc.) where as Toews hasn't had that kind of success with new linemates. When it was working, nothing could stop him. But when it wasn't, you barely noticed him on the ice ( at least from the hand full of Chicago games I watch per year). So in the battle of Sid or Toews, I would take Sid just cause by himself, he makes the team better.
Jul 30 at 3:05
#32
BrandonDubinskyGoat
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 453
Quoting: cnb17
I feel that both are guys you would want to start a franchise with....having said that, I personally feel that during the 5 years that Chicago was unbeatable, it's hard not to agree with these stats. But, I feel that Crosby has proven that he can make anyone on his line a superstar (Sheary, Rust, Simon, etc.) where as Toews hasn't had that kind of success with new linemates. When it was working, nothing could stop him. But when it wasn't, you barely noticed him on the ice ( at least from the hand full of Chicago games I watch per year). So in the battle of Sid or Toews, I would take Sid just cause by himself, he makes the team better.


Yes but she also claimed that Crosby only does well against weak opposition, when he is matched against top defensive players, he struggles whereas Toews dominates. For example, throughout his career Crosby has been manhandled in possession and production against players like Bergeron, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Barkov and Stone. Toews is the opposite, he has excelled when being matched up against the likes of Kopitar, Bergeron, Getzlaf, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Backes and O’Reilly. Therefore Toews is far better than Crosby. Thoughts?
Jul 30 at 3:16
#33
cnb17
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 319
Likes: 28
Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
Yes but she also claimed that Crosby only does well against weak opposition, when he is matched against top defensive players, he struggles whereas Toews dominates. For example, throughout his career Crosby has been manhandled in possession and production against players like Bergeron, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Barkov and Stone. Toews is the opposite, he has excelled when being matched up against the likes of Kopitar, Bergeron, Getzlaf, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Backes and O’Reilly. Therefore Toews is far better than Crosby. Thoughts?


Crosby 943 games played - 1,216 points....Towes 873 games played - 755 points. So by that Crosby clearly is the winner.
Jul 30 at 5:28
#34
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 275
Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
Recently @MadmanFromMadison was arguing with me on why she felt Toews is a better hockey player than Crosby. She brought up some interesting stats: In head to head matchups throughout their careers (14 games), Toews has 18 points and a plus 10 rating whereas Crosby has only 7 points and a -14 rating. What’d y’all think of this?


Here’s my take on this...Crosby is arguably the best player in the world regardless of what he has done against Toews and CHI. Toews is a great player in his own right but I don’t see him being on the same elite player pedestal Crosby is. I see Toews and Bergeron as a more fair comparison.
Jul 30 at 9:22
#35
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 487
Likes: 111
Apparently @BrandonDubinskyGOAT still hasnt mastered reading beyond a 2nd grade level. All this Toews vs Crosby talk stems from the fact that Toews is great at shadowing Sid and limiting his impact he would have in a game. Sid at his very best has been stopped by guys before already it isnt exactly rare for that to happen to star players.
Jul 30 at 9:26
#36
BrandonDubinskyGoat
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 453
Quoting: MadmanFromMadison
Apparently @BrandonDubinskyGOAT still hasnt mastered reading beyond a 2nd grade level. All this Toews vs Crosby talk stems from the fact that Toews is great at shadowing Sid and limiting his impact he would have in a game. Sid at his very best has been stopped by guys before already it isnt exactly rare for that to happen to star players.


Just because Toews stopped Crosby from producing at an elite level during the regular season doesn’t make him the better player. Kadri successfully shadowed McDavid last season, does that mean Kadri is better than McDavid? Open your eyes.
Jul 30 at 9:34
#37
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 487
Likes: 111
Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
Just because Toews stopped Crosby from producing at an elite level during the regular season doesn’t make him the better player. Kadri successfully shadowed McDavid last season, does that mean Kadri is better than McDavid? Open your eyes.


When did I ever say he was better you mongoloid? You somehow interpret "This guy can shut down Sid well" into "This guy is better" which is what I never said you are incapable of reading and comprehending basic statements. At this point you would make more sense if you huffed paint for three hours straight then posted here.
 
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