Forums/Armchair-GM

Marner bridge Healthy team

Created by: Chiller
Initial Creation Date: Aug 2, 2019
Published: Aug 2, 2019 at 3:42
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Team Explanation
Marner:eventually signs a bridge deal. Looking at his comparable of Kanes 2nd contract, Aho, let’s look at Kucherov instead. He took a bridge deal of 3years at 6.53%. For Mitch that would be 5.25AAV. That seems low as marner has done better and to offset some tax stuff 8.5%=7Mil AAV over the 3 year term

Honka : does not appear that good but maybe can learn and grow. Dallas gets a 4C who did well in his roll last year and better than their options.

Neiverth I assume gets the backup job on the PTO. Signs for league min

Shattenkirk doesn’t sign with the leafs as he wants to stay inNY somewhere so he goes to the isles or devils.

Leafs pick up stone for fun. Not that good but on a league min deal maybe he is serviceable. Has nhl experience and what about injuries if they happen and can be buried if need be.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Marner, Mitchell3$7,000,000
Honka, Julius2$1,000,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Stone, Michael1$700,000
Neuvirth, Michal1$700,000
Trades
TOR
  1. Honka, Julius [RFA Rights]
  2. 2022 6th round pick (DAL)
Additional Details:
Dallas wants to get rid of Honka. A RHD. Hasn’t produced much inNHL yet
DAL
  1. Gauthier, Frédérik
  2. 2020 4th round pick (TOR)
  3. 2020 7th round pick (SJS)
Additional Details:
Dallas gets a cheaper 4C this who was surprising good in his roll last year. Some pick swapping but I would upgrade:
4th becomes a 3rd if Honka plays 80 games over the next 2 seasons
Buyouts
  • Mikhail Grabovski: $0
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
  • Robin Lehner: $1,100,000 (22%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2020
TOR
CBJ
VGK
TOR
CAR
COL
EDM
STL
WPG
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
DAL
TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$80,172,199$0$0$1,327,801
Left WingCenterRight Wing
TOR
Moore, Trevor
$775,000
RW, LW
RFA - 2
TOR
Matthews, Auston
$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
TOR
Nylander, William
$6,962,366
RW, LW
UFA - 5
TOR
Hyman, Zach
$2,250,000
LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Tavares, John
$11,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 6
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
$7,000,000
RW
UFA - 6
TOR
Johnsson, Andreas
$3,400,000
LW
UFA - 4
TOR
Kerfoot, Alexander
$3,500,000
C, LW
UFA - 4
TOR
Kapanen, Kasperi
$3,200,000
RW
RFA - 3
TOR
Shore, Nick
$750,000
C
UFA - 1
TOR
Spezza, Jason
$700,000
C, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Agostino, Kenny
$737,500
LW
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
TOR
Ceci, Cody
$4,500,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Andersen, Frederik
$5,000,000
G
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Muzzin, Jake
$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
TOR
Barrie, Tyson
$2,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Neuvirth, Michal
$700,000
G
UFA
TOR
Dermott, Travis
$863,333
LD
RFA - 1
Honka, Julius
$1,000,000
RD
RFA
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Stone, Michael
$700,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Horton, Nathan
$5,300,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Holl, Justin
$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Clarkson, David
$5,250,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Petan, Nicolas
$775,000
LW, RW, C
RFA - 2

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Aug 2, 2019 at 3:52
#1
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 435
Likes: 124
although I agree that the only end to the Marner saga is a bridge deal. You have a very fair price for him, however I don't think he accepts that deal
blowing_the_zone liked this.
Aug 2, 2019 at 3:53
#2
Stars and Bolts fan
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 15,607
Likes: 7,576
DAL accepts...

I don't see Marner taking that deal though.
Aug 2, 2019 at 3:58
#3
BrandonDubinskyGoat
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 453
Quoting: Jeff_Fingers_Agnet04
although I agree that the only end to the Marner saga is a bridge deal. You have a very fair price for him, however I don't think he accepts that deal


Quoting: BurgerBoss
DAL accepts...

I don't see Marner taking that deal though.


Marner would take 3x8. Who would y’all say is the better player, Dybala or Lukaku?
Aug 2, 2019 at 4:01
#4
Thread Starter
Brewmaster
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 209
Likes: 86
Quoting: BurgerBoss
DAL accepts...

I don't see Marner taking that deal though.


Quoting: Jeff_Fingers_Agnet04
although I agree that the only end to the Marner saga is a bridge deal. You have a very fair price for him, however I don't think he accepts that deal


I agree Marner willingly accepting is rough but he needs to start negotiating in reality here. Maybe Dubas caves a bit but marner also saw what happened to Nylander and if I was him I would make sure I am there for training camp. If he truly wants to be a leaf he’s gotta sign fairly right. He can make millions more on all his commercials n stuff. Sigh
blowing_the_zone liked this.
Aug 2, 2019 at 4:05
#5
Stars and Bolts fan
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 15,607
Likes: 7,576
Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
Marner would take 3x8. Who would y’all say is the better player, Dybala or Lukaku?


Isn't he still looking for a Matthews deal? ($11,6Mx5)

I'd take Lukaku. Power scorer.
Aug 2, 2019 at 4:10
#6
BrandonDubinskyGoat
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 453
Quoting: BurgerBoss
Isn't he still looking for a Matthews deal? ($11,6Mx5)

I'd take Lukaku. Power scorer.


No, there weren’t any teams willing to give it to him. You picked Lukaku? But Dybala has so much better technical skill and dribbling. What about Romelu Lukaku and Ronaldo Nazario?
Aug 2, 2019 at 4:10
#7
BrandonDubinskyGoat
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 453
Quoting: BurgerBoss
Isn't he still looking for a Matthews deal? ($11,6Mx5)

I'd take Lukaku. Power scorer.


No, there weren’t any teams willing to give it to him. You picked Lukaku? But Dybala has so much better technical skill and dribbling. What about Romelu Lukaku and Ronaldo Nazario?
Aug 2, 2019 at 4:14
#8
Go Boltz! & Go Avs!
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 452
Likes: 96
Guys, looking at the Clarkson trade, it doesn't looke like Marner will take a bridge deal... When a team plays that much with LTIR: His agent probably said: 10million+ at whatever years(preferred 5) or marner will sitout or something...
and the last thing TML wants to have another year(after Nylander fiasco) with a star player missing for a while...
Even Brayden Point said in a private conversation, he doesn't wanna take a bridge deal 1 month ago, and we know Point stays in Tampa, so maybe Point will take it for the team.
But Marner: i don't see that...
Aug 2, 2019 at 4:15
#9
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,492
Likes: 430
Quoting: BurgerBoss
Isn't he still looking for a Matthews deal? ($11,6Mx5)

I'd take Lukaku. Power scorer.


Yeah, Lukaku's miles better.

That being said, just because Marner wants Matthews' contract (5x11.6) doesn't mean he's worth it, and doesn't mean Dubas gives it to him. He's not worth it. I feel like his agent is simply trying to see if the Leafs will give him what he wants out of desperation, so they can avoid what happened with Nylander last year, where he struggles after holding out or where the AAV increases for the first year. If Dubas holds firm, at some point Ferris is going to give in before Marner has to sit the entire year and lose lots of leverage+money next summer. It's going to be a wait, but it's coming, and it's going to be a lot better for the Leafs than most people assume.
blowing_the_zone liked this.
Aug 2, 2019 at 4:17
#10
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,492
Likes: 430
Quoting: F3ruS
Guys, looking at the Clarkson trade, it doesn't looke like Marner will take a bridge deal... When a team plays that much with LTIR: His agent probably said: 10million+ at whatever years(preferred 5) or marner will sitout or something...
Even Brayden Point said in a private conversation, he doesn't wanna take a bridge deal 1 month ago, and we know point stays, so maybe Point will take it for the team.
But Marner: i don't see that...


If Marner sits out, he loses a lot of leverage when this whole fiasco begins next summer again. Let him sit out, the Leafs can manage the season (maybe even pull off a trade for a big pending UFA using the cap space) and then get him down on a good contract.
blowing_the_zone liked this.
Aug 2, 2019 at 4:22
#11
LEAFSandBRUINSfan
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,492
Likes: 461
Marner denied a 3x10 so this is a know
Aug 2, 2019 at 4:23
#12
Bcarlo25
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 15,702
Likes: 4,876
Neither Kane or who bridged...
Aug 2, 2019 at 4:26
#13
Go Boltz! & Go Avs!
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 452
Likes: 96
Edited Aug 2, 2019 at 4:35
Quoting: NR1203
If Marner sits out, he loses a lot of leverage when this whole fiasco begins next summer again. Let him sit out, the Leafs can manage the season (maybe even pull off a trade for a big pending UFA using the cap space) and then get him down on a good contract.


WAAAT, if marner doesn't play, this season is donskies for TML. U catch my drift?
I think he is top 3 on team. Somebody would argue he is top2 for sure...
And you guys lost Kadri, no way u can take a chance without Marner.
This has to be done way much earlier, than the Nylander deal.
That would be a fail for your GM, if the exact same thing happening this year, except if its under 7 million @ 8 years... That contract would maybe worth it...but maybe not...
You guys wanna go further than Round 1 in the playoffs i thought... What if next year: BOS vs TOR again, without Marner: 4-3 Toronto? I don't think so...

But that's just seems impossible scenario at this time.
Most likely outcome 10.5 mililon @ 5-7 years, i don't think it's under 10. Just as i said last year about the Marner+Matthews+Kadri+Nylander+Tavares together, i said its not gonna happen. U guys thought im out of my mind... Well u can check where Kadri plays now... Similiar to Tampa: for this year we are fine, next year some guy who everybody likes with 40+ point has to go... Johnson,Gourde,Killorn,Palat etc... or we let valuable players go away, which we won't...


BTW: Nylander was a little diff situation: Nylander gets carried by Matthews.
Marner carries the line. It's much more important to have impact players on your team.

Marner in my eyes = Kane for Blackhawks, or Panarin for Columbus(now NY) etc... He is a must have player on your roster. Personally i really like him everytime i see him play. So yeah , i expect him to sign any contract in 2019 for sure...
Aug 2, 2019 at 4:35
#14
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,492
Likes: 430
Quoting: F3ruS
WAAAT, if marner doesn't play, this season is donskies for TML. U catch my drift?
I think he is top 3 on team. Somebody would argue he is top2 for sure...
And you guys lost Kadri, no way u can take a chance without Marner.
This has to be done way much earlier, than the Nylander deal.
That would be a fail for your GM, if the exact same thing happening this year, except if its under 7 million @ 8 years... That would maybe worth it... But that's just seems impossible scenario at this time.
Most likely outcome 10.5 mililon @ 5-7 years, i don't think it's under 10. Just as i said last year about the Marner+Matthews+Kadri+Nylander together, i said its not gonna happen. U guys thought im out of my mind... Well u can check where Kadri plays now... Similiar to Tampa: for this year we are fine, next year some guy who everybody likes with 40+ point has to go... Johnson,Gourde,Killorn,Palat etc... or we let valuable players go away, which we won't...


Leafs can manage without Marner. It won't be ideal, but they can manage. Without Tavares, he's a 60-70 point player and that's the truth. If Johnsson/Kapanen score 10 more points each (not unreasonable) and Nylander is back to normal, things will be fine.

In losing Kadri, we picked up a Dman who had more points than him last season, as well as a good 3C with similar production last season as well as better Dzone/faceoff ability. I loved him, but truthfully, he was a 2C playing the wrong role. He was expendable, and the Leafs are better off with Barrie+Kerfoot than they are with Kadri. As a fan, I'll miss him for sentimental reasons, not on-ice ones.

I'm sure Dubas and Ferris both want this Marner situation to be over well before Dec 1st. That being said, they both also want the ideal contract for them, not really considering the other side. This negotiation will take time, I'm just saying it'll hurt Marner more than the Leafs if he ends up holding out the entire season.
blowing_the_zone liked this.
Aug 2, 2019 at 4:43
#15
Go Boltz! & Go Avs!
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 452
Likes: 96
Quoting: NR1203
I'm just saying it'll hurt Marner more than the Leafs if he ends up holding out the entire season.


So you think paying Nylander 7 millon $$$ hurt Nylander more than the TML? I think the opposite, i think noone wants Nylander for 7 million right now in the league... except if they dont have to give up huge assests. Last year everybody would take Nylander for 7 mill $$$. It will be really interesting how that contract will work in long run. I'm hoping for a bounce back season for Nylander, but you just never know.
Will Babcock put Nylander with Matthews again? And i mean almost 95%+ of Icetime. Nylander + Matthews together. What you think about this?

Quoting: NR1203
Without Tavares, he's a 60-70 point player and that's the truth. If Johnsson/Kapanen score 10 more points each (not unreasonable) and Nylander is back to normal, things will be fine.


U forget about the part with this statement, that Marner is still improving every year, and he didn't reach his peak yet. Or you think Marner peaked at like Age 21? I don't think so...
Aug 2, 2019 at 4:45
#16
Thread Starter
Brewmaster
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 209
Likes: 86
Quoting: F3ruS
WAAAT, if marner doesn't play, this season is donskies for TML. U catch my drift?
I think he is top 3 on team. Somebody would argue he is top2 for sure...
And you guys lost Kadri, no way u can take a chance without Marner.
This has to be done way much earlier, than the Nylander deal.
That would be a fail for your GM, if the exact same thing happening this year, except if its under 7 million @ 8 years... That contract would maybe worth it...but maybe not...
You guys wanna go further than Round 1 in the playoffs i thought... What if next year: BOS vs TOR again, without Marner: 4-3 Toronto? I don't think so...

But that's just seems impossible scenario at this time.
Most likely outcome 10.5 mililon @ 5-7 years, i don't think it's under 10. Just as i said last year about the Marner+Matthews+Kadri+Nylander+Tavares together, i said its not gonna happen. U guys thought im out of my mind... Well u can check where Kadri plays now... Similiar to Tampa: for this year we are fine, next year some guy who everybody likes with 40+ point has to go... Johnson,Gourde,Killorn,Palat etc... or we let valuable players go away, which we won't...


BTW: Nylander was a little diff situation: Nylander gets carried by Matthews.
Marner carries the line. It's much more important to have impact players on your team.

Marner in my eyes = Kane for Blackhawks, or Panarin for Columbus(now NY) etc... He is a must have player on your roster. Personally i really like him everytime i see him play. So yeah , i expect him to sign any contract in 2019 for sure...



If you think Marner carries his line you are mistaken. Marner without JT had awful possession numbers all year round. Worst case they make eachother better, but JT has had a history of making al his line mates better and getting crazy overpaid deals when their contracts are up.

Nylander hd a bad year but him and Marner were neck and neck up until year 3. People discredit him on his line but give too much credit to Marner on his.

Imagine Instead of JT you have Kadri, kappy Hyman, mango. How many points would Marner have? My guess is a lot less. Maybe 80 at the high end. Because the pucks would bounc of of kadri/mango/Johnsson’s sticks, stakes, shin pads or they wouldn’t be in the right positions.

Marner is great but let’s stop pretending JT didn’t have a big effect on mariners point totals
blowing_the_zone liked this.
Aug 2, 2019 at 4:47
#17
Thread Starter
Brewmaster
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 209
Likes: 86
Quoting: F3ruS
So you think paying Nylander 7 millon $$$ hurt Nylander more than the TML? I think the opposite, i think noone wants Nylander for 7 million right now in the league... except if they dont have to give up huge assests. Last year everybody would take Nylander for 7 mill $$$. It will be really interesting how that contract will work in long run. I'm hoping for a bounce back season for Nylander, but you just never know.
Will Babcock put Nylander with Matthews again? And i mean almost 95%+ of Icetime. Nylander + Matthews together. What you think about this?


Nylander at 7 sign me up. I can’t wait for next year him crushing it and getting 70ish points and everyone magically pretending they never thought he was bad. Can’t wait
F3ruS liked this.
Aug 2, 2019 at 4:51
#18
Go Boltz! & Go Avs!
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 452
Likes: 96
Quoting: Chiller
If you think Marner carries his line you are mistaken. Marner without JT had awful possession numbers all year round. Worst case they make eachother better, but JT has had a history of making al his line mates better and getting crazy overpaid deals when their contracts are up.


Oh yeah, i've seen those numbers. From those numbers it looked like your right... But... The Eye test said different... And again... those numbers assumed Marner will stay the same player at Age of 20-21 than age of 25-27, which im sure u know its not true.... btw he is valueable PK killer as far as i know... so how can u guys not respect him well enough? His PK numbers also the result of Tavares? wink
Aug 2, 2019 at 4:51
#19
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,755
Likes: 940
How does a 2020 4th become a 3rd if Gonna plays 80 games in 2021???
Aug 2, 2019 at 4:55
#20
Go Boltz! & Go Avs!
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 452
Likes: 96
Quoting: Riley816
How does a 2020 4th become a 3rd if Gonna plays 80 games in 2021???


It's an insurance for Dallas if Honka works out for Toronto and plays a lot of games. Then Dallas gets a higher pick = Good for dallas.
If Honka plays few games like 0-79, they only get a 4th, so thats better for toronto, but they are not that happy because they wanted honka to be a really good player smile
Aug 2, 2019 at 4:59
#21
Thread Starter
Brewmaster
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 209
Likes: 86
Hhg
Aug 2, 2019 at 5:00
#22
Thread Starter
Brewmaster
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 209
Likes: 86
Quoting: Riley816
How does a 2020 4th become a 3rd if Gonna plays 80 games in 2021???


Quoting: F3ruS
It's an insurance for Dallas if Honka works out for Toronto and plays a lot of games. Then Dallas gets a higher pick = Good for dallas.
If Honka plays few games like 0-79, they only get a 4th, so thats better for toronto, but they are not that happy because they wanted honka to be a really good player smile


My bad I get your point. Should be a 2021 4th that gets upgraded to a 3rd if he plays games. I put it in a year too early

But need some performance guarantees in there
Riley816 liked this.
Aug 2, 2019 at 5:10
#23
Go Boltz! & Go Avs!
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 452
Likes: 96
Quoting: Chiller
My bad I get your point. Should be a 2021 4th that gets upgraded to a 3rd if he plays games. I put it in a year too early

But need some performance guarantees in there


I think Honka is a lost case by now, so i wouldn't trade for him if i were Toronto's GM, same with Shattenkirk(regressing), i think in general D = needs big guys(6,0+ & 200+), who are super though to play against. I feel like Honka is just small+ not strong enough, althought west to east could be working, so you just never know. I guess if u think Liljegren and Sandin not ready, it could work for a year. For 2 years im not so sure...

BTW just a note, i heard Colorado fans saying Barrie = not a good defender, so dont be that sure that your D improved, until u havent seen him for 82 games.
If he gets the same role as Zaitsev.. it will be bad...(not me saying this, AVS fans who watched him play a lot) I have just turned into AVS fan for this year...(as my 2nd team)
i hope Babcock will play him in offensive shifts or smth like that most often... in my mind Muzzin+Barrie = perfect linemates, and that should be good...
Aug 2, 2019 at 5:11
#24
Stars and Bolts fan
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 15,607
Likes: 7,576
Quoting: NR1203
Yeah, Lukaku's miles better.

That being said, just because Marner wants Matthews' contract (5x11.6) doesn't mean he's worth it, and doesn't mean Dubas gives it to him. He's not worth it. I feel like his agent is simply trying to see if the Leafs will give him what he wants out of desperation, so they can avoid what happened with Nylander last year, where he struggles after holding out or where the AAV increases for the first year. If Dubas holds firm, at some point Ferris is going to give in before Marner has to sit the entire year and lose lots of leverage+money next summer. It's going to be a wait, but it's coming, and it's going to be a lot better for the Leafs than most people assume.


One thing you haven't note is that TOR is pretty much forced to sign Marner before the season starts, because just like in Nylander's case, if the contract is signed after the season has started, the cap hit for the first year is higher than for the rest of the contract.

If Marner is unsigned after October, or even November, they can pretty much give in on signing him on that season. Even if he'd take a 8x3 bridge deal, the first year cap hit is going to be closer to $10M which they simply can't afford without making some moves.

This is why I think there's some teams making big offers for him just before the season begins - in order to force TOR making a quick decision.
F3ruS liked this.
Aug 2, 2019 at 5:16
#25
johnjohn
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 175
Likes: 32
Report out today Marner turned down 3 x 10 million. Another **** show about to happen for Toronto
He needs to be traded before this gets worse or teach him a lesson and sit him for the year
7 million for 3 years is a joke. Everyone laughed when I said he will never take under 10.5 to 12 million depending on term
See you in December when dubas caves in again
 
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