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Penguins Discussion

Aug 6, 2019 at 5:22
#1
BrandonDubinskyGoat
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In my opinion, the biggest disappointment of last season was Evgeni Malkin. After such a sensational 2017-18 season, I expected him to dominate again despite being a year older. In October, I was right, he was named second star with something like 26 points. After that, he was just inconsistent and a liability. He did turn it up for stretches but overall far from his best.

What do you expect from Geno in 2019-20? Possibly a bounce back?

@mhockey91 @Sidstick87 @AFOX10900 @dgfresh78 @Yojimbo @vic997
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Aug 6, 2019 at 7:03
#2
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Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
In my opinion, the biggest disappointment of last season was Evgeni Malkin. After such a sensational 2017-18 season, I expected him to dominate again despite being a year older. In October, I was right, he was named second star with something like 26 points. After that, he was just inconsistent and a liability. He did turn it up for stretches but overall far from his best.

What do you expect from Geno in 2019-20? Possibly a bounce back?

@mhockey91 @Sidstick87 @AFOX10900 @dgfresh78 @Yojimbo @vic997


Only if his most common d-pairing isn’t Jack Johnson. If they keep deploying him with Johnson he’ll continue to look worse than he actually is.
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Aug 6, 2019 at 7:23
#3
Thread Starter
BrandonDubinskyGoat
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Quoting: dgfresh78
Only if his most common d-pairing isn’t Jack Johnson. If they keep deploying him with Johnson he’ll continue to look worse than he actually is.


Yeah mosf statistics pointed out that every player’s performance suffered whenever they were on the ice with Jack Johnson. In his prime JJ was a solid 2 way player but the issue with him is that his speed and agility have diminished significantly. His decision making and positioning is trash cuz he always goes for unnecessary body checks, plus cannot move the puck out of the danger areas. It’s no coincidence that Malkin and Kessel became undisciplined midway through last season, they were probably fed up with having to play with such an incompetent defenseman. Last season, Johnson was on the ice for 65% if the goals allowed and only on the ice for 35% scored. Sometimes the numbers are misleading but when the margin is that big, it really says something about his performance. It would be idea if the Penguins can package him with a second round pick to anyone who would take him, and then sign Gardiner.
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Aug 6, 2019 at 7:58
#4
Joined: Nov 2018
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Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
Yeah mosf statistics pointed out that every player’s performance suffered whenever they were on the ice with Jack Johnson. In his prime JJ was a solid 2 way player but the issue with him is that his speed and agility have diminished significantly. His decision making and positioning is trash cuz he always goes for unnecessary body checks, plus cannot move the puck out of the danger areas. It’s no coincidence that Malkin and Kessel became undisciplined midway through last season, they were probably fed up with having to play with such an incompetent defenseman. Last season, Johnson was on the ice for 65% if the goals allowed and only on the ice for 35% scored. Sometimes the numbers are misleading but when the margin is that big, it really says something about his performance. It would be idea if the Penguins can package him with a second round pick to anyone who would take him, and then sign Gardiner.


My ideal idea is to package him with a 2nd and a 3rd to LA for Paul LaDue and then explore trading Gudbranson since you have 3 guys that are cheap and capable of playing the right side in Riikola, Ruhwedel, and LaDue.
Aug 6, 2019 at 8:00
#5
Thread Starter
BrandonDubinskyGoat
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Quoting: dgfresh78
My ideal idea is to package him with a 2nd and a 3rd to LA for Paul LaDue and then explore trading Gudbranson since you have 3 guys that are cheap and capable of playing the right side in Riikola, Ruhwedel, and LaDue.


Yeah, but then who fills in Johnson's spot on the left? Riikola or Joseph? Or do you mean trade Johnson for LaDue, then trade Gudbranson and sign some LHD like Gardiner?
Aug 6, 2019 at 8:03
#6
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Edited Aug 6, 2019 at 8:10
Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
Yeah, but then who fills in Johnson's spot on the left? Riikola or Joseph? Or do you mean trade Johnson for LaDue, then trade Gudbranson and sign some LHD like Gardiner?


You trade Gudbranson and sign Gardiner. You might need to move out Rust for a cheaper forward but there’s ways to make it work. Either that or you dump Johnson and Gudbranson and trade Rust and a pick/prospect for Jake McCabe and Evan Rodrigues.
Aug 6, 2019 at 8:30
#7
Thread Starter
BrandonDubinskyGoat
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Quoting: dgfresh78
You trade Gudbranson and sign Gardiner. You might need to move out Rust for a cheaper forward but there’s ways to make it work. Either that or you dump Johnson and Gudbranson and trade Rust and a pick/prospect for Jake McCabe and Evan Rodrigues.


Well I’m not keen on trading Rust since you probably won’t be able to get a better player for him at cheaper cost. What about trading him to the Sens for Tyler Ennis and maybe a 3rd round pick?
Aug 6, 2019 at 8:31
#8
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Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
Well I’m not keen on trading Rust since you probably won’t be able to get a better player for him at cheaper cost. What about trading him to the Sens for Tyler Ennis and maybe a 3rd round pick?


It makes sense but I’m not really about it...they can get a legit return out of Rust if GMJR actually tries to do so.
Aug 6, 2019 at 9:15
#9
Thread Starter
BrandonDubinskyGoat
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Quoting: dgfresh78
It makes sense but I’m not really about it...they can get a legit return out of Rust if GMJR actually tries to do so.


A legit return out of Rust would be a first and second round pick. I don’t really see someone like Rodrigues as a better option than Ennis.
Aug 6, 2019 at 9:29
#10
Joined: Nov 2018
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Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
A legit return out of Rust would be a first and second round pick. I don’t really see someone like Rodrigues as a better option than Ennis.


I don’t see how they get a first or second out of Rust. The only way they do a Rust Trade is if they find a player on a cheaper contract who does all the things Rust does. That being said I don’t see Ottawa moving Ennis due to the fact that they just signed him.
Aug 7, 2019 at 8:38
#11
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 439
Likes: 128
Quoting: dgfresh78
I don’t see how they get a first or second out of Rust. The only way they do a Rust Trade is if they find a player on a cheaper contract who does all the things Rust does. That being said I don’t see Ottawa moving Ennis due to the fact that they just signed him.


Moving Johnson is ideal. Gudbranson should be kept for the season coming but moved during the next offseason to make room for RFA signings and chucky deal.
Ideally, we should try to move hornqvist as well but I'm perfectly fine with keeping him.
The problem GMJR created is that he added unnecessary players to the bottom-six group while completing forgeting his d-core is aging and beyond the top-pair, it really needs work.
Sure, gardiner is injury-prone, but he sure is better than JJ.
By signing him, you have guys who can move the puck on each defensive unit (Letang, Schultz, Gardiner) which is key to have in the way Pens generate offense.

Also, I love Rust but no way is he worth a first AND a second?
A second at best + maybe a C prospect
Aug 7, 2019 at 8:40
#12
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 439
Likes: 128
Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
Yeah mosf statistics pointed out that every player’s performance suffered whenever they were on the ice with Jack Johnson. In his prime JJ was a solid 2 way player but the issue with him is that his speed and agility have diminished significantly. His decision making and positioning is trash cuz he always goes for unnecessary body checks, plus cannot move the puck out of the danger areas. It’s no coincidence that Malkin and Kessel became undisciplined midway through last season, they were probably fed up with having to play with such an incompetent defenseman. Last season, Johnson was on the ice for 65% if the goals allowed and only on the ice for 35% scored. Sometimes the numbers are misleading but when the margin is that big, it really says something about his performance. It would be idea if the Penguins can package him with a second round pick to anyone who would take him, and then sign Gardiner.


This right here is what I fear management in Pittsburgh is completely disregarding. The man was dreadful with every single player he was paired with.
Buy him out idc, as long as I don't have to see him trying to make an unnecessary hit in a playoff game instead of defending like he's being paid to do.
Aug 7, 2019 at 8:47
#13
Joined: Nov 2018
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Quoting: vic997
Moving Johnson is ideal. Gudbranson should be kept for the season coming but moved during the next offseason to make room for RFA signings and chucky deal.
Ideally, we should try to move hornqvist as well but I'm perfectly fine with keeping him.
The problem GMJR created is that he added unnecessary players to the bottom-six group while completing forgeting his d-core is aging and beyond the top-pair, it really needs work.
Sure, gardiner is injury-prone, but he sure is better than JJ.
By signing him, you have guys who can move the puck on each defensive unit (Letang, Schultz, Gardiner) which is key to have in the way Pens generate offense.

Also, I love Rust but no way is he worth a first AND a second?
A second at best + maybe a C prospect


The 3 puck mover system is ideal especially since the 3 other defenseman are of a decent skill level. I think you’re spot on about Rust though...worth a late 2nd at the most but the team is more likely to get value out of him by making a player swap/hockey trade.
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Aug 7, 2019 at 8:50
#14
Joined: Jun 2017
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Quoting: dgfresh78
The 3 puck mover system is ideal especially since the 3 other defenseman are of a decent skill level. I think you’re spot on about Rust though...worth a late 2nd at the most but the team is more likely to get value out of him by making a player swap/hockey trade.


I agree. Only way we move Rust is if we get someone similar who can play the same role at a cheaper cost.

I don't agree with many on here saying Gardiner isn't good. He's more than fine for a 2-3rd pairing d man. a 1-2 year deal with 4-5 mil in $ is perfectly reasonable. It literally cannot get any worse than JJ. I've seen the back-end of Scuderi and even he wasn't as bad as JJ.
Aug 7, 2019 at 9:11
#15
Thread Starter
BrandonDubinskyGoat
Joined: Apr 2019
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Quoting: dgfresh78
I don’t see how they get a first or second out of Rust. The only way they do a Rust Trade is if they find a player on a cheaper contract who does all the things Rust does. That being said I don’t see Ottawa moving Ennis due to the fact that they just signed him.


Yeah maybe Ennis wasn’t the best example. What about Trevor Moore of TOR? He does all the things Rust does: skates fast, forechecks, grinds, kills penalties and is versatile. He doesn’t have much experience but he fits the Penguins’ style.
Aug 7, 2019 at 9:12
#16
Thread Starter
BrandonDubinskyGoat
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Quoting: vic997
I agree. Only way we move Rust is if we get someone similar who can play the same role at a cheaper cost.

I don't agree with many on here saying Gardiner isn't good. He's more than fine for a 2-3rd pairing d man. a 1-2 year deal with 4-5 mil in $ is perfectly reasonable. It literally cannot get any worse than JJ. I've seen the back-end of Scuderi and even he wasn't as bad as JJ.


To be honest Tanev plays the same role as Rust but he doesn’t score goals and is less versatile.
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Aug 7, 2019 at 9:12
#17
Joined: Nov 2018
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Quoting: vic997
I agree. Only way we move Rust is if we get someone similar who can play the same role at a cheaper cost.

I don't agree with many on here saying Gardiner isn't good. He's more than fine for a 2-3rd pairing d man. a 1-2 year deal with 4-5 mil in $ is perfectly reasonable. It literally cannot get any worse than JJ. I've seen the back-end of Scuderi and even he wasn't as bad as JJ.


I agree to the point that I think Hunwick was better than JJ. If I knew the alternative I wouldn’t have rooted for the Hunwick/Sheary cap dump as much as I did. I think Gardiner is a no brainer if they can clear the cap. Would be perfect in a 3rd pairing role with Gudbranson or Riikola.
Aug 7, 2019 at 9:13
#18
Thread Starter
BrandonDubinskyGoat
Joined: Apr 2019
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Quoting: vic997
This right here is what I fear management in Pittsburgh is completely disregarding. The man was dreadful with every single player he was paired with.
Buy him out idc, as long as I don't have to see him trying to make an unnecessary hit in a playoff game instead of defending like he's being paid to do.


I’m sure they are aware of what he’s done, but they want to support him since he lost all his money a year ago.
Aug 7, 2019 at 9:15
#19
Thread Starter
BrandonDubinskyGoat
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Quoting: dgfresh78
I agree to the point that I think Hunwick was better than JJ. If I knew the alternative I wouldn’t have rooted for the Hunwick/Sheary cap dump as much as I did. I think Gardiner is a no brainer if they can clear the cap. Would be perfect in a 3rd pairing role with Gudbranson or Riikola.


Yeah exactly, 3 puck movers is what the Penguins need on defense since they’re an offensive team. They haven’t had the same success since Daley left.
Aug 7, 2019 at 9:16
#20
Joined: Nov 2018
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Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
Yeah maybe Ennis wasn’t the best example. What about Trevor Moore of TOR? He does all the things Rust does: skates fast, forechecks, grinds, kills penalties and is versatile. He doesn’t have much experience but he fits the Penguins’ style.


I really like Trevor Moore but I’m not really sure if Toronto can do it with the cap and Marner. I think a guy comparable to Rust that’s worth looking into would be Drake Caggiula. Would be perfect for anywhere in the Penguins top 9 forward group.
Aug 7, 2019 at 9:24
#21
Joined: Nov 2018
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Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
I’m sure they are aware of what he’s done, but they want to support him since he lost all his money a year ago.


The key with Tanev is playing him with a guy who has good possession metrics and the ability to generate scoring chances. That being said Tanev-Blueger-Simon would be one hell of a fourth line.
Aug 7, 2019 at 9:32
#22
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 439
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Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
I’m sure they are aware of what he’s done, but they want to support him since he lost all his money a year ago.


At this point, if they were to buy him out or even trade him. I'd say the Pens gave him a second chance after his whole family fiasco. In the end, I really think Jim gave the 5-year term because of his past.
As much as it hurt the Pens team, the good part of this is that JJ now has something to retire with. I can only imagine what that must have been like for him.
Aug 7, 2019 at 9:34
#23
Joined: Jun 2017
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Quoting: dgfresh78
The key with Tanev is playing him with a guy who has good possession metrics and the ability to generate scoring chances. That being said Tanev-Blueger-Simon would be one hell of a fourth line.


Honestly had we got Tanev at 2-2.5 x 3-4 years, I would be ecstatic. Basically being paid properly to play in the 4th line role.
The thing with Simon is that we'd have to scratch ZAR if the team is healthy. ZAR is a better player overall and I'd like to see him play with Malkin for some stretches during the season.
If Simon had better finishing, I swear this guy would be a 25 goal scorer
It's an odd situation because he can drive play, have great possession metrics but literally cannot score on an open net from a feed from sid.
Aug 7, 2019 at 9:49
#24
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,697
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Quoting: vic997
Honestly had we got Tanev at 2-2.5 x 3-4 years, I would be ecstatic. Basically being paid properly to play in the 4th line role.
The thing with Simon is that we'd have to scratch ZAR if the team is healthy. ZAR is a better player overall and I'd like to see him play with Malkin for some stretches during the season.
If Simon had better finishing, I swear this guy would be a 25 goal scorer
It's an odd situation because he can drive play, have great possession metrics but literally cannot score on an open net from a feed from sid.


In this scenario ZAR would play with Geno because it’s basically a foregone conclusion that Rust will end up being the cap casualty that takes place in order to sign Pettersson.

My ideal forward group is
Guentzel-Crosby-Kahun
Galchenyuk-Malkin-ZAR
McCann-Bjugstad-Hornqvist
Tanev-Blueger-Simon
Aug 7, 2019 at 11:10
#25
Thread Starter
BrandonDubinskyGoat
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,164
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Quoting: dgfresh78
I really like Trevor Moore but I’m not really sure if Toronto can do it with the cap and Marner. I think a guy comparable to Rust that’s worth looking into would be Drake Caggiula. Would be perfect for anywhere in the Penguins top 9 forward group.


Yeah Cagguila is good, another name that comes to mind is Connor Brown.
 
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