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Over paying Marner to screw the leafs

Created by: Chris1022
Team: 2019-20 New York Islanders
Initial Creation Date: Aug. 15, 2019
Published: Aug. 15, 2019
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
5$12,500,000
2$1,500,000
Offer Sheets
Offer sheet annual average (AAV) is calculated by dividing the contract value by the lower of: 1. The contract length, or 2. Five years
PLAYERAAVCOMPENSATION
Marner, Mitchell$12,500,000
2020 1st round pick
2021 1st round pick
2022 1st round pick
2023 1st round pick
Trades
NYI
  1. 2020 2nd round pick (MTL)
  2. 2021 1st round pick (MTL)
MTL
  1. Ho-Sang, Joshua [RFA Rights]
  2. Leddy, Nick
  3. 2021 3rd round pick (NYI)
Buyouts
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
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2021
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2022
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$77,452,499$0$1,070,000$4,047,501
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the New York Islanders
$7,000,000$7,000,000
LW
NTC
UFA - 7
Logo of the New York Islanders
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$400,000$400K)
C, RW
UFA - 1
$12,500,000$12,500,000
RW
UFA - 6
Logo of the New York Islanders
$5,000,000$5,000,000
RW, LW, C
UFA - 5
Logo of the New York Islanders
$6,000,000$6,000,000
C, LW
NTC
UFA - 6
Logo of the New York Islanders
$5,500,000$5,500,000
RW
NTC
UFA - 5
Logo of the New York Islanders
$1,500,000$1,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the New York Islanders
$786,666$786,666 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
LW, RW, C
RFA - 2
Logo of the New York Islanders
$925,000$925,000
RW
RFA - 4
Logo of the New York Islanders
$3,350,000$3,350,000
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the New York Islanders
$3,000,000$3,000,000
RW, LW, C
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the New York Islanders
$2,500,000$2,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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$700,000$700,000
LD
UFA - 1
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$2,000,000$2,000,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the New York Islanders
$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the New York Islanders
$2,500,000$2,500,000
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the New York Islanders
$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$537,500$538K)
RD
RFA - 3
Logo of the New York Islanders
$3,333,333$3,333,333
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the New York Islanders
$1,600,000$1,600,000
LD
UFA - 2
Logo of the New York Islanders
$1,450,000$1,450,000
RD
UFA - 4
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the New York Islanders
$850,000$850,000
RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the New York Islanders
$3,500,000$3,500,000
RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the New York Islanders
$5,500,000$5,500,000
LW
NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the New York Islanders
$700,000$700,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the New York Islanders
$6,000,000$6,000,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 3

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Aug. 15, 2019 at 7:07 a.m.
#1
GM Hockeysaurus Rex
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The only team you will screw is yours
Aug. 15, 2019 at 7:20 a.m.
#2
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I'll pack his bags. Also this has Ladd on ltir
Aug. 15, 2019 at 7:22 a.m.
#3
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you kind of screw your team as well. Already high cap hits for Martin, Cizikas, Clutterbuck, Boychuk, Ladd and give up 4 1st
Aug. 15, 2019 at 7:37 a.m.
#4
MisstheWhalers
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I don't see how the Islanders can do this, they simply don't have the cap space for it so I think most of these rumors are just click bait but for the sake of debate let's say Lou offersheets Marner and he signs, how's that gonna leave their cap situation for next summer when they have to resign Barzal?
Aug. 15, 2019 at 7:41 a.m.
#5
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Give a good hard look at that team and tell me you are 100% comfortable giving up your next 4 firsts... Because I sure wouldn't be. AND overpaying on Marner by at least 2M when Barzal is up and will surely want as much or more next summer.
Aug. 15, 2019 at 7:47 a.m.
#6
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Quoting: MisstheWhalers
I don't see how the Islanders can do this, they simply don't have the cap space for it so I think most of these rumors are just click bait but for the sake of debate let's say Lou offersheets Marner and he signs, how's that gonna leave their cap situation for next summer when they have to resign Barzal?


If the Isles were to OS Marner, they have contracts they can move to clear space. Leddy (as show in this post) can be moved for picks/prospects, Hickey can also be moved for picks, Boychuk can be moved (with retention on his salary) as well. After this coming season, Clutterbuck (if he comes back healthy) and Komarov can be bought out easily... Ladd is the only REALLY hard contract to move, but given his injury (he know has had major injuries to both knees) and age, it's more likely he remains a LTIR candidate for the remainder of his contract, which means he won't need to be moved.

It'll likely cost about 18-20 mil to resign Barzal (8-10), Pulock (6) and Toews (4) next season and the moves above would give us plenty of CAP space to sign them all.
Aug. 15, 2019 at 7:50 a.m.
#7
Who adds what?
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Four first round picks gone, and only 12M next year to divide between Pulock and Barzal? The only way this hurts the Leafs is if they match.
Aug. 15, 2019 at 7:52 a.m.
#8
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Quoting: jordok92
Give a good hard look at that team and tell me you are 100% comfortable giving up your next 4 firsts... Because I sure wouldn't be. AND overpaying on Marner by at least 2M when Barzal is up and will surely want as much or more next summer.


This team is identical to the team that put up 103 points lasts season and finished 2nd in the Metro and have now ADDED Marner. Moving Leddy and handing his spot to Toews, while giving Aho regular playing time is a wash (their better defense and Toews offensive ability easily replace Leddy and Hickey)... So, yes, I'd feel very confident with this team and those 4 1st rounds being in the 24-31/32 range each year.

Also, the Barzal take is ridiculous. Marner signing here has little to no bearing on what Barzal does. IF Barzal leads the team in scoring next year (the way Marner has for TOR the last 3) than he can demand something similar to Marner. But I'm pretty sure Barzal understand the only way to bring a talent like Marner to the Isles is to OVERPAY them, which does NOT translate to Barzal demanding McDavid money next year... come on.
Aug. 15, 2019 at 8:00 a.m.
#9
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Quoting: Hockeygoalie53
This team is identical to the team that put up 103 points lasts season and finished 2nd in the Metro and have now ADDED Marner. Moving Leddy and handing his spot to Toews, while giving Aho regular playing time is a wash (their better defense and Toews offensive ability easily replace Leddy and Hickey)... So, yes, I'd feel very confident with this team and those 4 1st rounds being in the 24-31/32 range each year.

Also, the Barzal take is ridiculous. Marner signing here has little to no bearing on what Barzal does. IF Barzal leads the team in scoring next year (the way Marner has for TOR the last 3) than he can demand something similar to Marner. But I'm pretty sure Barzal understand the only way to bring a talent like Marner to the Isles is to OVERPAY them, which does NOT translate to Barzal demanding McDavid money next year... come on.


So Barzal will take less because it takes more to get talent to come. Tavares takes $11m to go to the Leafs and Matthews makes over $11.5m and Marner wants the same or more. Shouldn't Marner think like how you think Barzal will and sign for less to stay with the Leafs who he loves playing for. If Barzal is the leading scorer with Marner on his team and he is a better player who plays center, then he is going to be asking for Marner money, which this post is McDavid money.
Aug. 15, 2019 at 8:06 a.m.
#10
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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Isles certainly don't have the cap next year for Barzel and Pullock plus their other RFAs if they overpay Marner. Even the Devils probably couldn't resign Hall with an overpaid Marner. There are cap reasons why teams don't offer ridiculous cap hits, plus losing four picks.
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Aug. 15, 2019 at 8:20 a.m.
#11
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Quoting: Hockeygoalie53
This team is identical to the team that put up 103 points lasts season and finished 2nd in the Metro and have now ADDED Marner. Moving Leddy and handing his spot to Toews, while giving Aho regular playing time is a wash (their better defense and Toews offensive ability easily replace Leddy and Hickey)... So, yes, I'd feel very confident with this team and those 4 1st rounds being in the 24-31/32 range each year.

Also, the Barzal take is ridiculous. Marner signing here has little to no bearing on what Barzal does. IF Barzal leads the team in scoring next year (the way Marner has for TOR the last 3) than he can demand something similar to Marner. But I'm pretty sure Barzal understand the only way to bring a talent like Marner to the Isles is to OVERPAY them, which does NOT translate to Barzal demanding McDavid money next year... come on.


Not going to try and argue about where the Isles will finish. Their PDO was crazy high along with a Career year for Lehner + others. They could very well get 103 again, or they could regress, get a key injury, ect and finish with 85-90. I just wouldnt be comfortable giving up 4 firsts after an overachieving year.

But lol. Everyone thinks their young stars will be different and sign a team friendly deal, want to stay, ect. RFA's are getting PAID. If Marner is making 12.5 that's where the Barzal camp is starting. Contracts are all comparable's and signing an awful one to your team drives barzal's asking price way up.
Aug. 15, 2019 at 8:24 a.m.
#12
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Quoting: nchest
So Barzal will take less because it takes more to get talent to come. Tavares takes $11m to go to the Leafs and Matthews makes over $11.5m and Marner wants the same or more. Shouldn't Marner think like how you think Barzal will and sign for less to stay with the Leafs who he loves playing for. If Barzal is the leading scorer with Marner on his team and he is a better player who plays center, then he is going to be asking for Marner money, which this post is McDavid money.


First, I clearly stated in my post that IF Barzal out produces Marner next year, then he can demand Marner money... implying that Barzal's contract depends solely on what BARZAL does and NOT Marner signing here. If Barzal puts up another 60 point season, he can't just demand 12m AAV because that's what the Isles gave Marner... now, it he puts up 90+ points, leads the team in scoring and out produces Marner, then he has every right to ask for that kind of money.

Second, Matthews and Marner are superior players to Tavares. JT is good for goals and that's about it. He doesn't play D, he doesn't play on the PK and as we saw on the Isles, he can't carry a team unless he has TOP players playing next to him. It's no surprise that JT scored 47 goals playing with an elite playmaker like Marner, while never coming close to that number with NYI. Both Marner and Matthews deserve to be paid more than Tavares. I firmly believe that TOR signed JT thinking that Marner (TOR Native) would sign a team friendly deal because he was from TOR, and now they've gone and shot themselves in the foot because Marner is actually demanding what he is worth and not "taking one for the team" like they thought he would.

Third, JT took LESS money to play in TOR because he wanted to go home. Both the Isles and San Jose (I think it was them) offered him more AAV than TOR did. If I'm not mistaken, the Isles final offer to him after the 8 year deadline passed was 7yrs and 91m (13m AAV) and he still chose TOR thinking it gave him the better chance to win (LOL).
Aug. 15, 2019 at 8:32 a.m.
#13
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Quoting: jordok92
Not going to try and argue about where the Isles will finish. Their PDO was crazy high along with a Career year for Lehner + others. They could very well get 103 again, or they could regress, get a key injury, ect and finish with 85-90. I just wouldnt be comfortable giving up 4 firsts after an overachieving year.

But lol. Everyone thinks their young stars will be different and sign a team friendly deal, want to stay, ect. RFA's are getting PAID. If Marner is making 12.5 that's where the Barzal camp is starting. Contracts are all comparable's and signing an awful one to your team drives barzal's asking price way up.


You do realize Lehner (who I loved and wanted back) had his career year mainly because of the system Trotz uses, right? There is no reason to think that Varlamov, who is a better goalie overall, won't have a similar year this year in the same system. Defense and a solid and trusted defensive system that EVERYONE bought into is what put the Isles where they were last year. Can they regress, yes of course, anything can happen... but you don't go from being the worst defensive team in the league two years ago to the best defensive team in the league last year on a fluke.

I'm not saying Barzal is going to sign a team friendly deal, all I'm saying is that just because the Isles sign Marner to a 12-13m AAV doesn't mean Barzal camp starts there. Marner is using Matthews as his comparable because he has out produced him and lead the leafs in scoring the last 3 years in a row and just put up 94 points last year. If Barzal does the same thing, then I have no problem with him asking for a contract similar to Marner (if signed by the Isles). But if he goes out and puts up 60-70 points next year, he's not asking for 12-13m per just because they gave that deal to Marner... that take is just laughable.
Aug. 15, 2019 at 8:35 a.m.
#14
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Quoting: palhal
Isles certainly don't have the cap next year for Barzel and Pullock plus their other RFAs if they overpay Marner. Even the Devils probably couldn't resign Hall with an overpaid Marner. There are cap reasons why teams don't offer ridiculous cap hits, plus losing four picks.


They do if they move/buy out some contracts. Leddy, Hickey, Boychuk, Komarov and Clutterbuck can all be moved or Bought out to open up the CAP space, without significantly impacting the overall roster as we have replacements for all 5 of them already in the system. Add in Greiss coming off the books and Martin likely being brought back on a cheaper deal and the Isles will have plenty of CAP space to resign those guys AND add Marner... will it be easy, no of course not... but it is certainly doable.
Aug. 15, 2019 at 8:39 a.m.
#15
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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Quoting: Hockeygoalie53
They do if they move/buy out some contracts. Leddy, Hickey, Boychuk, Komarov and Clutterbuck can all be moved or Bought out to open up the CAP space, without significantly impacting the overall roster as we have replacements for all 5 of them already in the system. Add in Greiss coming off the books and Martin likely being brought back on a cheaper deal and the Isles will have plenty of CAP space to resign those guys AND add Marner... will it be easy, no of course not... but it is certainly doable.


Sorry, it's almost impossible to move those contracts, especially bottom end player with bloated cap. Other teams have cap issues, they just can't take on cap without sending cap back in return.
Make a logical 2020/21 roster, with a 12.5m Marner, and Ladd on the roster, I'd been interested in seeing it.
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Aug. 15, 2019 at 8:44 a.m.
#16
Bo Horvat enjoyer
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Yeah it’s kinda screwing us too next year. A Marner offersheet isn’t happening. I’d love if we traded for a guy like Zucker or Ehlers tho
Aug. 15, 2019 at 8:50 a.m.
#17
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Quoting: palhal
Sorry, it's almost impossible to move those contracts, especially bottom end player with bloated cap. Other teams have cap issues, they just can't take on cap without sending cap back in return.
Make a logical 2020/21 roster, with a 12.5m Marner, and Ladd on the roster, I'd been interested in seeing it.


The only contract that is improbable (but still not IMPOSSIBLE) to move is Ladd, all the others listed can be moved. Leddy is a Top 4 D-Man on a relatively good deal for what he brings... he can be moved easily for picks/prospects. Hickey is a serviceable 3rd pairing D-Man also on a relatively good deal for him... he too can be moved without much effort for picks. Boychuk is tougher to move, but with retaining some money (as much as the full 50%) someone would take him at 3m per for a 3rd pairing without much extra added in. Komarov and Clutterbuck are buyout candidates next season, but even so, Komarov is a serviceable 3rd liner who can probably be moved as well in a trade.

It's also more likely that Ladd becomes a permanent LTIR candidate given he has now had major injuries and surgeries to BOTH of his knees and is in his mid 30's which makes coming back from those types of injuries much more difficult.
Aug. 15, 2019 at 8:55 a.m.
#18
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Quoting: Hockeygoalie53
You do realize Lehner (who I loved and wanted back) had his career year mainly because of the system Trotz uses, right? There is no reason to think that Varlamov, who is a better goalie overall, won't have a similar year this year in the same system. Defense and a solid and trusted defensive system that EVERYONE bought into is what put the Isles where they were last year. Can they regress, yes of course, anything can happen... but you don't go from being the worst defensive team in the league two years ago to the best defensive team in the league last year on a fluke.

I'm not saying Barzal is going to sign a team friendly deal, all I'm saying is that just because the Isles sign Marner to a 12-13m AAV doesn't mean Barzal camp starts there. Marner is using Matthews as his comparable because he has out produced him and lead the leafs in scoring the last 3 years in a row and just put up 94 points last year. If Barzal does the same thing, then I have no problem with him asking for a contract similar to Marner (if signed by the Isles). But if he goes out and puts up 60-70 points next year, he's not asking for 12-13m per just because they gave that deal to Marner... that take is just laughable.



1000% Trotz helped, as 99% of new coaches do when they come in. I'm just saying temper your expectations, every team is susceptible to a 10-15 point variance based on loser points, one goal games, fluke goals for/against and the numbers suggest NYI was on the high end of their spectrum. Unless you're Tampa sure you're making the playoffs every year why are you giving up 4 first round picks?

But sure I understand why the Marner camp is (allegedly) asking for Matthews money, even though the even strength production, goals and position would argue he shouldn't be asking for it. Even if the Barzal camp wouldn't be asking for a Marner comparable, overpaying him x amount shoots up Barzal's price by x amount. Marner making 12.5 means a 70 points Barzal deserves what, 11? But Marner making 10.5 means a 70 point Barzal deserves 9.5, 10? Obviously those numbers aren't exact, just trying to relay my point.
Aug. 15, 2019 at 8:58 a.m.
#19
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As a suggested, it's virtually impossible to make the Islanders cap compatible next year with 12.5m Marner. All these talk about buyouts, moving expensive bottom end players...more dreaming than reality.
Sure it look good for 2019/20, but 2020/1.....let's see a roster, but no just fantasy talk.
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Aug. 15, 2019 at 9:06 a.m.
#20
NYI
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Do nothing is a better way to screw over the Leafs.
Aug. 15, 2019 at 9:12 a.m.
#21
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Quoting: jordok92
1000% Trotz helped, as 99% of new coaches do when they come in. I'm just saying temper your expectations, every team is susceptible to a 10-15 point variance based on loser points, one goal games, fluke goals for/against and the numbers suggest NYI was on the high end of their spectrum. Unless you're Tampa sure you're making the playoffs every year why are you giving up 4 first round picks?

But sure I understand why the Marner camp is (allegedly) asking for Matthews money, even though the even strength production, goals and position would argue he shouldn't be asking for it. Even if the Barzal camp wouldn't be asking for a Marner comparable, overpaying him x amount shoots up Barzal's price by x amount. Marner making 12.5 means a 70 points Barzal deserves what, 11? But Marner making 10.5 means a 70 point Barzal deserves 9.5, 10? Obviously those numbers aren't exact, just trying to relay my point.


Nah, I have high expectations for this team next year. They played great last year under the new system and the team really gelled last year after JT left. I was one of the few people who said the Isles were going to be a better team without JT, while everyone else was predicting they were going to be fighting for the #1 overall pick... so I stand by my prediction that this team will be just as good, maybe a few point drop off but I'm still predicting 95+ points for them next year... if I'm wrong I'll eat my words, but I'm standing by it.

My god, this is like beating my head against the wall... so I'll try this one more time... Marner isn't allegedly asking for Matthews money, it's been widely reported he is using Matthews as his comparable for contract negotiations. Also, the reason he is using Matthews, while TOR is trying to use lesser players as comparables is because Marner HAS LED THE LEAFS IN POINTS FOR THE LAST 3 SEAONS! More than Matthews, more than Tavares, more than anyone else wearing a Leafs Jersey. PLUS, Marner plays all roles... 5-on-5, PP, PK also more than Matthews and Tavares. Not to mention he has progressed upwards in points each of the last 3 seasons all while staying healthy, something Matthews hasn't been able to do.

So, one more time, IF Barzal has a breakout season and scores 90+ points he can certainly use Marner as a comp and I wouldn't even be mad at him for doing so. But 70+ Barzal comes in at around 8-10m, regardless of what Marner gets. Marners leverage here is that he has out performed the guys he is using as comps, Barzal would need to do the same to have the same leverage... it's simple logic.
Aug. 15, 2019 at 9:56 a.m.
#22
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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Quoting: Hockeygoalie53


First I'll think Matthews (and Nylander ) are overpaid. But player comparables are based league wide not just on one team. So while, I see Marner's logic is wanting Matthews money, there is also logic that Marner should get paid with similar players. Aho and Marner have identical stats and value in the past two years . Aho signed for 8.5 X 5. Kucherov one year away from UFA signed for 9.5m.
So, Marner has the right to sign with any appropriate contract he wants. And as of now, he hasn't signed one with the 31 teams in the NHL or the the hundreds of teams worldwide.
Aug. 15, 2019 at 10:48 a.m.
#23
MisstheWhalers
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Quoting: Hockeygoalie53
If the Isles were to OS Marner, they have contracts they can move to clear space. Leddy (as show in this post) can be moved for picks/prospects, Hickey can also be moved for picks, Boychuk can be moved (with retention on his salary) as well. After this coming season, Clutterbuck (if he comes back healthy) and Komarov can be bought out easily... Ladd is the only REALLY hard contract to move, but given his injury (he know has had major injuries to both knees) and age, it's more likely he remains a LTIR candidate for the remainder of his contract, which means he won't need to be moved.

It'll likely cost about 18-20 mil to resign Barzal (8-10), Pulock (6) and Toews (4) next season and the moves above would give us plenty of CAP space to sign them all.


You're really simplifying what it'd take to move the players you listed. It's just not that easy and if this offersheet was to happen it means the Isles gotta move some guys now which won't be easy considering a lot of teams still have pricey RFA'S to sign and more importantly there's very very few teams with any cap space.

I think that's what doesn't get realized by most on this site, as of right now there isn't many teams with much cap space, some are right up against or even over and even the ones with a decent amount of space might need it for bonuses or to make an addition at the TDL.

I don't know, I just don't see this happening and them being able to make it work with Barzal next summer.
Aug. 15, 2019 at 11:26 a.m.
#24
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I think the major obstacle is Ladd. If he is going to be a Robidas island resident for the rest of his career, I'm not so worried. If he isn't then you'll have a problem.

So if Ladd gets a sudden rash or gets diagnosed with degenerative Icanstayhomeandstillcollectmypaycheque-itis, that would alleviate a lot of the headaches.

As for some of the other bigger contracts in the lineup, Greiss and Martin are gone after this year. Leddy could absolutely be traded away without adding cap back or retaining. Boychuk may have to be your cap dump sell, include Ho Sang and a pick plus retain 50% and you'll surely find a team like Ottawa or whomever to bite on that. Buyout Clutterbuck next year.

All that should be enough to keep everyone else in the lineup and Isles cap compliant.
Aug. 15, 2019 at 11:26 a.m.
#25
torontos finest
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overpay marner to own the libs
 
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