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My Final Word on a Marner Contract

Created by: Random2152
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Aug. 16, 2019
Published: Aug. 17, 2019
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
For those of you who do not want to read this lengthy post, the tl;dr version is I will live with a 7@10.5aav deal (all in SB's and with a 20+ team NTC/NMC). It is an overpayment by ~1-1.5 million, but considering all young stars are underpaid relative to their production (even McDavid, Matthews, and insert young star here) I will live with it.
Below is a projected Leafs roster with the 'fair' Marner contract.

For those of you who want to see contract comparables and a deeper breakdown; grab the popcorn.

Going based on news (Matthews) and my opinions/100% factual statements (not Matthews) here are a list of contract comparables for Marner (in no particular order). There are other comparable players but I will only be profiling some of the more prominent ones who currently have a contract.
Before you start, remember that the Matthews deal was signed in a new era of contracts for star centres so his % is by far the highest (that and the fact that he isn't a comparable for any of these players except for Kane).

Name - Contract - Starting Year - Cap% of starting year

Matthews- 5@11.634 - 2019-20 - 14.27%
Kane-------- 5@6.300 - 2010-11 - 10.61%
Tarasenko- 8@7.500 - 2015-16 - 10.50%
Aho---------- 5@8.454 - 2019-20 - 10.37%
Nylander-- 6@6.962 - 2018-19 - 8.76%
Pastrnak-- 6@6.666 - 2017-18 - 8.89%
Gaudreau- 6@6.750 - 2016-17 - 9.25%
Meier------- 4@6.000 - 2019-20 - 7.36%

A basic average on the term and the % gives you a contract of 5.625 years at a 10% hit. That gives you roughly a 5@8 - 6@8.5 which is right around the Aho contract and intrinsically is fairly close in terms of Marner's actual value on that term. At this point however, I do not think he will get his intrinsic worth and will be badly overpaid.

Basic counting stats (in per game for context):
Name - Year 1 GPG/PPG - Year 2 GPG/PPG - Year 3 GPG/PPG - etc, until 2nd contract starts

Matthews-- 0.49/0.84 - 0.55/1.02 - 0.54/1.07
Kane--------- 0.26/0.88 - 0.31/0.88 - 0.37/1.07
Tarasenko- 0.21/0.29 - 0.33/0.67 - 0.48/0.95
Aho---------- 0.29/0.60 - 0.37/0.83 - 0.37/1.01
Marner----- 0.25/0.79 - 0.27/0.84 - 0.32/1.15
Nylander--- 0.27/.059 - 0.27-0.75 - 0.24-0.74
Pastrnak--- 0.22/0.59 - 0.29/0.51 - 0.45/0.93
Gaudreau- 1.00/1.00 - 0.30/0.80 - 0.38/0.99
Meier------- 0.09/0.18 - 0.26/0.44

Basic counting stats (in /pg context) essentially show that (Auston Matthews is a ****ing beast) Marner is extremely comparable with players like Aho and Gaudreau, and is a step above Nylander while being multiple steps below Matthews.

Going off of this we can guess at a 'fair' contract as being the average of Gaudreau and Aho's deals. That comes to 5.5@9.81% or 5.5@8. Gaudreau was signed in a past RFA contract scenario, so I think it would be fair to add up to 1 million to this aav in order to account for this (surpassing the Aho deal in he skew). Strictly value wise this is what he is worth and my highest 'fair' valuation on him of 6@9.000 seems mostly in line with this projection. I will be basing any contract signed off of this number, and will be shocked if he comes in anywhere near it from the news I have been hearing.

As CF doesn't have the ability to put images in these descriptions, I will be adding the advanced metrics down below to show how Meier is better than his counting stats show and how Mitch and Aho are very close.

As a conclusion to this; I will say that I will be able to live with a deal that surpasses his intrinsic value as long as it comes with term. I would be okay with up to 7@10.5aav based on his age and the fact that he should continue to get better. I am still irked that JT took a large discount to come here just for Mitch to put the teams financial future in jeopardy by demanding a massive overpayment and am annoyed at Shanahan and Dubas for (reportedly) giving it to him.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
6$9,000,000
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
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Logo of the VGK
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Logo of the CAR
Logo of the COL
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the STL
Logo of the WPG
2021
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2022
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$80,959,699$0$0$540,301
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
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$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$9,000,000$9,000,000
RW
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,400,000$3,400,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,634,000$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
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$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, C, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
UFA - 5
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$775,000$775,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
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$700,000$700,000
C, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
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$3,200,000$3,200,000
RW
UFA - 3
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$750,000$750,000
C
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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$4,000,000$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,750,000$2,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,500,000$4,500,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$775,000$775,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$863,333$863,333
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,250,000$5,250,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$675,000$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,300,000$5,300,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1

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Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:28 p.m.
#26
Marner Enthusiast
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Quoting: Random2152
Im not talking about the last decade. I am talking about TODAY.
And I would take one of Barkov and Couturier on my team before Malkin if I were building a roster TODAY.


Well then you are ignorant for choosing to disregard all that Geno has accomplished in his career. He’ll be a HOFer and there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it!
Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:30 p.m.
#27
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Quoting: Random2152
Cite.
Your.
Sources.

A link, embedded picture, and show that there are none that have Mitch above Nylander.
Nylander is a better player at certain things, just as Marner is too. To ignore the latter in a debate about stats is absurd.


Arguing with this guy is futile, I tried citing GSAA to explain how Lundqvist is worlds better than MAF and he just kept shouting the same stuff about Crosby/Toews and pulling the "I played the game so advanced stats don't matter" card. Love your take on the Marner contract, and good on you for spreading the good word of Micah and the EV Hockey twins.
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Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:30 p.m.
#28
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Quoting: Random2152
Cite.
Your.
Sources.

A link, embedded picture, and show that there are none that have Mitch above Nylander.
Nylander is a better player at certain things, just as Marner is too. To ignore the latter in a debate about stats is absurd.


Quoting: oneX
If this is what you're bringing to a debate about advanced stats/Marner let me save you some time: you are talking to the wrong people.
Yeah there are 1 or 2 advanced stats where Nylander looks better than Marner but....Marner is much better than Nylander in all the other advanced stats catagories which...breaking news!!! Shows Marner is better than Nylander.

Omg....I can't believe I had to actually say this. SMH


Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
I like the last sentence in your write up is a lie, I highly doubt the rumor that J.T. was getting an offer of 13 million. So J.T. didn't take a hometown discount. I've never seen a confirmed report by a reliable source stating that the Sharks offered 13 million.


Quoting: palhal
Don't think we can comparable salaries base on contracts that were signed four years ago. It's the last two years of RFA signings that should be comparables. And when all the current RFAs get signed then there will be a good base.
Agree with 10.5 X 7 figure....seems high by liveable. It's about the same Eichel and certainly is premium over the very comparable Aho.
Don't think the UFA Tavares has much affect on the RFAs at all. Players don't get "short changed" because of highly paid players on their team just like inferior players don't get premium pay because their team is "starless"


Quoting: Bcarlo25
Promise?


This is taken right out of Stephen Burtch’s post:

“Across the past 3 seasons at 5v5 in comparison to Marner, Nylander has a higher...

iCF60: 15.03 vs 14.44
iFF60: 11.33 vs 10.64
iSF60: 7.94 vs 7.37
ixG60: 0.78 vs 0.66

So literally the only advanced metric that rates Marner higher than Nylander across the past 3 years...does not exist.”

Happy?
Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:33 p.m.
#29
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Quoting: Random2152


I've seen that article last year, it was a rumor not a confirmed report "believed that sharks offered 91 for 7". The author isn't a trusted NHL insider. Another report please.
Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:33 p.m.
#30
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Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
Well then you are ignorant for choosing to disregard all that Geno has accomplished in his career. He’ll be a HOFer and there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it!


He should be an HOF player.
When you ask who the best centre is, you don't say Gretzky; but McDavid.
McDavid isn't better than Gretzky was, but we are talking about TODAY. Their career doesn't matter in the frame of the conversation at hand.
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Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:35 p.m.
#31
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Quoting: rootferdukes
Arguing with this guy is futile, I tried citing GSAA to explain how Lundqvist is worlds better than MAF and he just kept shouting the same stuff about Crosby/Toews and pulling the "I played the game so advanced stats don't matter" card. Love your take on the Marner contract, and good on you for spreading the good word of Micah and the EV Hockey twins.


Hank was insulated surrounded by dead tree defensemen that surpressed shots & chances at a highly effective rate during reg season & playoffs & still couldn’t win a cup. F*ck advanced stats & nerd metrics , eye test & championship parades never lie. Now look at Fleury playing behind better defensive structure & he’s thriving.
Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:35 p.m.
#32
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
I've seen that article last year, it was a rumor not a confirmed report "believed that sharks offered 91 for 7". The author isn't a trusted NHL insider. Another report please.


So because you don't like what they are saying - it isn't real and we can ignore it? Come on man you're impossible.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2776099-john-tavares-signs-reported-7-year-contract-with-maple-leafs
https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nhl/news/john-tavares-rumors-nhl-free-agency-2018-odds-islanders-maple-leafs-bruins-sharks-stars-lightning/h388g24tbpct1j9bagdzwcp30
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/columnist/allen/2018/07/01/john-tavares-maple-leafs-islanders-free-agent/748659002/
Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:35 p.m.
#33
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Quoting: rootferdukes
Arguing with this guy is futile, I tried citing GSAA to explain how Lundqvist is worlds better than MAF and he just kept shouting the same stuff about Crosby/Toews and pulling the "I played the game so advanced stats don't matter" card. Love your take on the Marner contract, and good on you for spreading the good word of Micah and the EV Hockey twins.


Yeah I'm about two seconds away from putting the guy on ignore.
Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:38 p.m.
#34
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Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
This is taken right out of Stephen Burtch’s post:

“Across the past 3 seasons at 5v5 in comparison to Marner, Nylander has a higher...

iCF60: 15.03 vs 14.44
iFF60: 11.33 vs 10.64
iSF60: 7.94 vs 7.37
ixG60: 0.78 vs 0.66

So literally the only advanced metric that rates Marner higher than Nylander across the past 3 years...does not exist.”

Happy?


You cited 4 stats. 4.

source.gif
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Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:39 p.m.
#35
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Quoting: Random2152
You cited 4 stats. 4.

source.gif


According to Stephen Burtch, those are all the stats that exist.
Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:40 p.m.
#36
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Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
According to Stephen Burtch, those are all the stats that exist.


Who cares what he thinks? Why does he even matter? There are plenty of ADV stats out there, cherrypicking a few does not prove your argument that stats make you think Nylander is better lol.
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Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:41 p.m.
#37
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Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
According to Stephen Burtch, those are all the stats that exist.


https://youtu.be/2CF-X9mhiGg?t=4
Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:42 p.m.
#38
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Me? I played AAA, probably better than what you achieved.
Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:43 p.m.
#39
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Quoting: Random2152
Who cares what he thinks? Why does he even matter? There are plenty of ADV stats out there, cherrypicking a few does not prove your argument that stats make you think Nylander is better lol.


He is considered a hockey expert in the Toronto area. The point is, this is why advanced statistics can be misleading.
Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:45 p.m.
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Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:46 p.m.
#41
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Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
According to Stephen Burtch, those are all the stats that exist.


Here is sean tierny. He is one of the stats guys who makes easy to use and read stats. You can see what they are worth.
https://medium.com/@ChartingHockey/the-war-lineup-creator-f2e536232682
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hkm-5QqNEQKULy4Bp8VTQHJoQlcehSgx1lZKMxQ4Uog/edit?usp=sharing
https://public.tableau.com/profile/sean.tierney#!/vizhome/rosters/19-20Lineups?publish=yes

Also this:
EALfpS3XkAIpLpR?format=png&name=900x900
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Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:47 p.m.
#42
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Lol. Why is everyone touting their junior days as a credential?
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Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:48 p.m.
#43
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
Show me more...…













I enjoy wasting your time, lol


Feel free to find them yourself. Those were all the ones I had on hand (I spent all of 8 seconds getting them).
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=Tavares+91+million+offer
Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:48 p.m.
#44
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Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
Me? I played AAA, probably better than what you achieved.


I mean I was an all-state swimmer and did marching band in high school so I think we're about on equal footing
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Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:51 p.m.
#45
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Quoting: Random2152
Feel free to find them yourself. Those were all the ones I had on hand (I spent all of 8 seconds getting them).
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=Tavares+91+million+offer


sigh you win, happy now, it toke me 3 minutes just to write those 5 words, lol
Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:52 p.m.
#46
Jefe
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Tavares drives that line, not Marner. You can't give him 11
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Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:53 p.m.
#47
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Quoting: Weezley
Lol. Why is everyone touting their junior days as a credential?


Not everyone. Just one delusional guy. Apparently it's credentials to use advanced stats in which ever way it fits his narrative.
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Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:53 p.m.
#48
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Quoting: rootferdukes
I mean I was an all-state swimmer and did marching band in high school so I think we're about on equal footing


That’s good for you, but at least now you know I don’t suck at hockey. Also, I was in the concert band, jazz band and Drumline.
Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:56 p.m.
#49
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Quoting: Jambo
Tavares drives that line, not Marner. You can't give him 11


Of course Marner isn’t worth that much, but Marner is almost as important to that line’s success compared to Tavares. You can’t say Marner gets carried around like a passenger.
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Aug. 17, 2019 at 4:57 p.m.
#50
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Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
Of course Marner isn’t worth that much, but Marner is almost as important to that line’s success compared to Tavares. You can’t say Marner gets carried around like a passenger.


ummmm... (these aren't advanced stats btw)
ECMkoFIWsAMnWbz?format=jpg&name=small
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