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DeMelo and Vatanen

Created by: Trickster
Team: 2020-21 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Aug. 23, 2019
Published: Aug. 24, 2019
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Used Ellis as comparable for Vatanen deal and figured DeMelo gets slightly more than Dermott due to RHD.

Rest is based off assumptions and estimations.


I wanted to move Hyman in some fashion but still thinking for what return.
Free Agent Signings
RESERVE LISTYEARSCAP HIT
3$900,000
4$900,000
4$900,000
4$900,000
3$900,000
4$900,000
3$900,000
3$900,000
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
4$3,000,000
2$7,776,000
2$900,000
2$900,000
2$900,000
2$900,000
2$900,000
1$900,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
6$3,750,000
4$6,250,000
2$1,850,000
1$900,000
1$800,000
1$1,000,000
Retained Salary Transactions
Buried
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
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2021
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2022
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$83,500,000$83,429,449$0$400,000$70,551
Left WingCentreRight Wing
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$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
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$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 5
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$7,776,000$7,776,000
RW
UFA - 5
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$775,000$775,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
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$11,640,250$11,640,250
C
UFA - 4
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$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
UFA - 4
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$3,400,000$3,400,000
LW, RW
UFA - 3
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$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, C, RW
UFA - 3
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$3,200,000$3,200,000
RW
UFA - 2
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$900,000$900,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
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$737,500$737,500
LW
UFA - 1
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$900,000$900,000
C
UFA - 2
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$900,000$900,000
RW, LW
UFA
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
$6,250,000$6,250,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
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$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 1
$3,750,000$3,750,000
RD
UFA - 4
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$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$400,000$400K)
RD
RFA - 2
$1,850,000$1,850,000
G
UFA - 2
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$3,000,000$3,000,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
$1,000,000$1,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
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$775,000$775,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 1
$800,000$800,000
LD
UFA

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Aug. 24, 2019 at 12:21 a.m.
#1
hey look a squirrel
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Meant to give Vatanen 5 years.
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Aug. 24, 2019 at 12:25 a.m.
#2
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Vatanen has been a player I figured the Leafs could have in mind and the money you gave seems bang on to me. The Ellis comparison is pretty good actually.

I feel DeMelo is under rated btw.
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Aug. 24, 2019 at 12:56 a.m.
#3
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There's no reason to do that though
Aug. 24, 2019 at 4:13 a.m.
#4
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Quoting: Jack_
There's no reason to do that though


That depends on how much you want to spend on D. You can splurge on one expensive D who is steady...but will carry a bigger cap hit...or you can do what @Trickster did in signing two guys with lower cap hits with steady defensive play.

It's just that if you go for one guy at a bigger cap hit then you will have to dumpster dive for possibly a second D.
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Aug. 24, 2019 at 4:17 a.m.
#5
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Quoting: Trickster
Meant to give Vatanen 5 years.


Quoting: oneX
Vatanen has been a player I figured the Leafs could have in mind and the money you gave seems bang on to me. The Ellis comparison is pretty good actually.

I feel DeMelo is underrated btw.


I thought you didn't like Aberg? I'm not sold on DeMelo or Vatanen yet... But I think this upcoming season will be a very telling year for both. Hopefully, for both, they have good year's and an outcome like you have here comes to fruition. As of now, I'm not sold yet but this is definitely a team I can and want to get behind.
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Aug. 24, 2019 at 4:23 a.m.
#6
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Quoting: oneX
That depends on how much you want to spend on D. You can splurge on one expensive D who is steady...but will carry a bigger cap hit...or you can do what @Trickster did in signing two guys with lower cap hits with steady defensive play.

It's just that if you go for one guy at a bigger cap hit then you will have to dumpster dive for possibly a second D.


I agree with this scenario i.e. “spread the money around" however, I would say that it's all depending on who the “expensive D" is. Some could be worth it depending on who else you get on the cheap. But overall I agree with you and @Trickster
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Aug. 24, 2019 at 4:29 a.m.
#7
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
I agree with this scenario i.e. “spread the money around" however, I would say that it's all depending on who the “expensive D" is. Some could be worth it depending on who else you get on the cheap. But overall I agree with you and @Trickster


The problem with getting one expensive D and one relatively cheap D is the options for cheap D are not as appealing. I'm talking like... 1.5-1 million cheap here because adding an expensive D means being up against the cap again.

Le sigh....problems for a future year lol
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Aug. 24, 2019 at 4:38 a.m.
#8
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Quoting: oneX
The problem with getting one expensive D and one relatively cheap D is the options for cheap D are not as appealing. I'm talking like... 1.5-1 million cheap here because adding an expensive D means being up against the cap again.

Le sigh....problems for a future year lol


I hear ya! And agree. However, if you could hypothetically( I know it won't happen) get AP outta St. Louis... He and Rilley could log enough minutes it shouldn't matter as much what the “other" d-man does. But that will never happen lol which is why I agree with spreading the money around. Even if it was a possibility “hypothetically" I would still probably go with what @Trickster has here, as I think it would be better for the team to spread it out.
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Aug. 24, 2019 at 8:20 a.m.
#9
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Leafs can't afford to getting in bidding wars for UFA. Don't think Vatanen really the guy you want next year anyway. Where is money coming from teh following yer with all those RFA signings including Marner.
Aug. 24, 2019 at 11:41 a.m.
#10
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Quoting: oneX
That depends on how much you want to spend on D. You can splurge on one expensive D who is steady...but will carry a bigger cap hit...or you can do what @Trickster did in signing two guys with lower cap hits with steady defensive play.

It's just that if you go for one guy at a bigger cap hit then you will have to dumpster dive for possibly a second D.


In the next season or the one after they will have Lilly, sandin, dermott and rielly who will most likely be ready to play top 4 minutes. Maybe Lilly as a 5th guy but then they have one of vatanen, demello or both as depth guys. It would be much better to sign one of them or just sign barrie or muzzin who will make less then them. Both muzzin and barrie are also better so they dont have to dumpster dive at all. You could have vatty and demello at 10 or lilly+barrie at around 8.5 and the second option is better and cheaper.
Aug. 24, 2019 at 12:01 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: Jack_
In the next season or the one after they will have Lilly, sandin, dermott and rielly who will most likely be ready to play top 4 minutes. Maybe Lilly as a 5th guy but then they have one of vatanen, demello or both as depth guys. It would be much better to sign one of them or just sign barrie or muzzin who will make less then them. Both muzzin and barrie are also better so they dont have to dumpster dive at all. You could have vatty and demello at 10 or lilly+barrie at around 8.5 and the second option is better and cheaper.


Barrie at 7+ million may not worth it.
I like Muzzin but feel he will get overpaid.

Dermott is maybe ready once the season is over as top4, that's I have as the 2nd pair LHD.


Let's see how Barrie, aka Gardiner RHD, does before get an extentsion first.


I am favour of steady defensive minded D over an offensive one.
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Aug. 24, 2019 at 12:01 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: palhal
Leafs can't afford to getting in bidding wars for UFA. Don't think Vatanen really the guy you want next year anyway. Where is money coming from teh following yer with all those RFA signings including Marner.


Agree, which is why I didnt go after top UFAs.
Which D would you target @palhal ???
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Aug. 24, 2019 at 1:17 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: Trickster
Barrie at 7+ million may not worth it.
I like Muzzin but feel he will get overpaid.

Dermott is maybe ready once the season is over as top4, that's I have as the 2nd pair LHD.


Let's see how Barrie, aka Gardiner RHD, does before get an extentsion first.


I am favour of steady defensive minded D over an offensive one.


I personally prefer defenseman like barrie or spurgeon who I think the leafs should sign next off season. They are great skaters who use their skill to move the puck up the ice and dont have to play defense because they never get hemmed in their own end. I think players like dermott or Gardiner are good pk'ers because they have such good gap control and force opponents to dump the puck in, then they can use their skill to pivot and go get the puck. I think players like parayko or pesce are so overrated because they do the same things that Gardiner and dermott do but they dont make these huge mistakes.

Gardiner does make boneheaded mistakes but for every mistake he makes 50 good plays but the mistake is all everyone talks about. Getting players like barrie, Gardiner dermott or vatanen doesnt come around that often but if you are going to pay so much for a RD I think they should slightly overpay barrie because he is so much better then vatanen.

You can also easily find defensive guys for cheap who can play on the 3rd pair. If they signed zaitsev to a fair contract he could be that, marincin is very underrated and there are so many guys out there that you wont have to pay more then 1 million to play 15 minutes max on the 3rd pair
Aug. 24, 2019 at 2:02 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: Trickster
Agree, which is why I didnt go after top UFAs.
Which D would you target @palhal ???


Since you asked. Reilly and Dermot. Leafs are praying that Sandin and Liljegren are NHL ready in October 2020. That's four. I don't see any other Marlies ready for the Leafs 14 months from now. Is Holl and Marincin who are UFAs ready for spot duty". Harpur is a RFA....will he show he NHL capable this year?
So with Muzzin, Ceci and Barrie contracts expired....that;s 11.25 from their cap. I don't see Muzzin or Barrie returning. If Ceci has a good season, maybe he will think the Leafs are a good spot for him to sign and play?
The most real alternative in my mind is the Leafs are hoping some of their Marlies wingers are NHL capable in 2020....Bracco, Kershov maybe more and these cheap guys could replace either Johnsson or Kapanen. Then Johnsson or Kapanen and one of their 3.2m contracts are traded for cap space to acquire a moderately good NHL Dman.
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Aug. 24, 2019 at 2:43 p.m.
#15
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Edited Aug. 24, 2019 at 2:53 p.m.
Quoting: palhal
Since you asked. Reilly and Dermot. Leafs are praying that Sandin and Liljegren are NHL ready in October 2020. That's four. I don't see any other Marlies ready for the Leafs 14 months from now. Is Holl and Marincin who are UFAs ready for spot duty". Harpur is a RFA....will he show he NHL capable this year?
So with Muzzin, Ceci and Barrie contracts expired....that;s 11.25 from their cap. I don't see Muzzin or Barrie returning. If Ceci has a good season, maybe he will think the Leafs are a good spot for him to sign and play?
The most real alternative in my mind is the Leafs are hoping some of their Marlies wingers are NHL capable in 2020....Bracco, Kershov maybe more and these cheap guys could replace either Johnsson or Kapanen. Then Johnsson or Kapanen and one of their 3.2m contracts are traded for cap space to acquire a moderately good NHL Dman.


Good thoughts.
Ceci, right now leaning towards saying to him thanks for the year but bu-bye.

Muzzin and Barrie, dont see them returning either.

Lilly and Sandin, I want to bank one being NHL ready by Oct. 2020 not both.


I would really like to trade for Manson tbh. tears of joy
Aug. 24, 2019 at 2:49 p.m.
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Quoting: Trickster
Good thoughts.


I really to trade for Manson tbh. tears of joy


Most teams don't have 5 capable NHL Dmen, never mind seven, so most teams aren't in the mood to trade. Ducks for example, only have three known quality NHL Dmen the season. Maybe some kids will comes through....but really to give one up is tough.
And if a team might only protect three in the expansion draft and might lose one....think they want to trade one? Nope. Does Hainsey have another year in him in 2020/21?sarcasm
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Aug. 24, 2019 at 2:52 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: palhal
Most teams don't have 5 capable NHL Dmen, never mind seven, so most teams aren't in the mood to trade. Ducks for example, only have three known quality NHL Dmen the season. Maybe some kids will comes through....but really to give one up is tough.
And if a team might only protect three in the expansion draft and might lose one....think they want to trade one? Nope. Does Hainsey have another year in him in 2020/21?sarcasm


Omg Hainsey, noooooooooooooooooooo


I hope Anaheim D overachieves and they think they can part with Manson.Heart Eyes
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Aug. 24, 2019 at 2:53 p.m.
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Quoting: Jack_
I personally prefer defenseman like barrie or spurgeon who I think the leafs should sign next off season. They are great skaters who use their skill to move the puck up the ice and dont have to play defense because they never get hemmed in their own end. I think players like dermott or Gardiner are good pk'ers because they have such good gap control and force opponents to dump the puck in, then they can use their skill to pivot and go get the puck. I think players like parayko or pesce are so overrated because they do the same things that Gardiner and dermott do but they dont make these huge mistakes.

Gardiner does make boneheaded mistakes but for every mistake he makes 50 good plays but the mistake is all everyone talks about. Getting players like barrie, Gardiner dermott or vatanen doesnt come around that often but if you are going to pay so much for a RD I think they should slightly overpay barrie because he is so much better then vatanen.


Hold on....while Barrie is better offensively than Spurgeon, Spurgeon is way more steady and when you factor in Rielly, steady defensive play is what the team needs.
I'm not disregarding what Barrie does/will do but Rielly was bordering on being a Norris candidate. With a powerful forward group like the Leafs have, steady defensive play can really help take pressure off Rielly/Dermott (when healthy) to play some sound defense when the game requires it.

Also...about Sandin particularly: I've seen comparisons to Rielly and maybe it's true. /shrug
Let's keep in mind that Rielly was chosen where in the draft vs where Sandin was chosen. People forget that.

Let's see what kind of season Sandin has in the AHL before we start giving him a 3rd pairing spot with the Leafs.
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Aug. 24, 2019 at 3:55 p.m.
#19
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Quoting: oneX
Hold on....while Barrie is better offensively than Spurgeon, Spurgeon is way more steady and when you factor in Rielly, steady defensive play is what the team needs.
I'm not disregarding what Barrie does/will do but Rielly was bordering on being a Norris candidate. With a powerful forward group like the Leafs have, steady defensive play can really help take pressure off Rielly/Dermott (when healthy) to play some sound defense when the game requires it.

Also...about Sandin particularly: I've seen comparisons to Rielly and maybe it's true. /shrug
Let's keep in mind that Rielly was chosen where in the draft vs where Sandin was chosen. People forget that.

Let's see what kind of season Sandin has in the AHL before we start giving him a 3rd pairing spot with the Leafs.


I agree that spurgeon is way better then barrie. Sandin isnt ax offensively talented but hes far better defensively, his game reminds me of dermott but a higher ceiling. He could be a number 2 guy for sure. Draft position doesnt matter anymore. They're with the leafs. Debrincat was a 2nd round pick. No one should be looking at the draft position anymore, he could be better then rielly or ge could never make the nhl. Looking at draft position isnt a good way to evaluate prospects
Aug. 24, 2019 at 4:03 p.m.
#20
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Quoting: Jack_
I agree that spurgeon is way better then barrie. Sandin isnt ax offensively talented but hes far better defensively, his game reminds me of dermott but a higher ceiling. He could be a number 2 guy for sure. Draft position doesnt matter anymore. They're with the leafs. Debrincat was a 2nd round pick. No one should be looking at the draft position anymore, he could be better then rielly or ge could never make the nhl. Looking at draft position isnt a good way to evaluate prospects


I'm still leaning towards caution here because not all D develop as fast as Rielly has. Easing Sandin into a spot early on and seeing what he can do is better than awarding him something he's not ready for.

Btw I'm still worried about Barrie's play in his own end. Described as "Gardiner-lite"
That, my friend is not a ringing endorsement.
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Aug. 24, 2019 at 4:05 p.m.
#21
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Quoting: oneX
I'm still leaning towards caution here because not all D develop as fast as Rielly has. Easing Sandin into a spot early on and seeing what he can do is better than awarding him something he's not ready for.

Btw I'm still worried about Barrie's play in his own end. Described as "Gardiner-lite"
That, my friend is not a ringing endorsement.


Agree with @onex on Sandin.
I have high hopes for him and lilly.
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