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Tell me an NHL opinion that most people will disagree with

Aug 29, 2019 at 8:47
#126
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rangersandislesfan
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Quoting: Brian2016
Werenski is def. a top pair D, but he's not elite. Seth Jones is elite. Werenski is a little shaky in his own zone sometimes. He's more of a Brent Burns type D. He plays deep in the offensive zone and always jumps up into the rush. I really like him as a player, but he's not a 2-way D.


So, to answer the question, is he a #1 d-man? Top pairing could mean #1 or #2.
Aug 29, 2019 at 8:47
#127
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rangersandislesfan
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Quoting: DeadGuy63
price and bishop are the top 2 goalies in the league


I disagree but that's the point ... it's not that crazy, though, is it?
Aug 29, 2019 at 8:48
#128
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
In the playoffs i wouldn't give out a 15 game suspension for a hit to the head (unless it's someone who has done it over and over and over again like Wilson), but that's not because it should be allowed in the playoffs. It shouldn't. it's because those games are even more meaningful and bigger.


right so now youve just set a double standard again. if you want to enforce penalties and rules and such keep it similar. you go and lay a dirty hit sit and hurt your team. You cant be allowed to run around and throw headshots like the blues did in the finals and get minimal penalties. So if you suspend 15 games in regular season whats the post season equivalent to you then? full 7 games? miss an entire series? and then this raises the question of do you get tossed in game? do you get a major penalty? a minor penalty? can these be reviewed or do the refs get to decide the fate of players mid game and ruin games like they did the sharks vegas series with the pavelski major and then not calling any more major penalties rest of the playoffs.
Aug 29, 2019 at 8:49
#129
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rangersandislesfan
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Quoting: Jamiepo
He was one of the most marketable leafs, seems to be pissing that away right now.

I think a fair deal for him with the Aho signing should be no more than 9m x 6. I’m okay with overpaying him a bit. 9.5- 10m x 6 or 10-10.5m x 7 or 8. He knows the leafs situation and he must know his true value. I put most of the blame in his father and agent. Good advice seems to be hard to find.


I mean, we don't know everything that's going on behind the scenes, so i'm not going to say his father and his agent are the problem, because i don't know. But it sounds like that's very possible.

You mentioned Aho, and that's another comparable that could be used. If Aho is worth 8.454M then Marner should get around 8M ... there are too many players you could compare him to.
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Aug 29, 2019 at 8:52
#130
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rangersandislesfan
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Quoting: hanson493
right so now youve just set a double standard again. if you want to enforce penalties and rules and such keep it similar. you go and lay a dirty hit sit and hurt your team. You cant be allowed to run around and throw headshots like the blues did in the finals and get minimal penalties. So if you suspend 15 games in regular season whats the post season equivalent to you then? full 7 games? miss an entire series? and then this raises the question of do you get tossed in game? do you get a major penalty? a minor penalty? can these be reviewed or do the refs get to decide the fate of players mid game and ruin games like they did the sharks vegas series with the pavelski major and then not calling any more major penalties rest of the playoffs.

I think majors should be reviewable ... while I do think that by the rules, the cross-check in game 7 on Pavelski should have been 2 minutes, i'd like to see the rules changed to make that a 5 minute major. I'd say 7 in the playoffs but it really depends on the hit ... and kick the players out of the game. If it's the finals maybe more like 4 or 5 ... but again, it depends on the hit and past suspension history. The DOPS needs to improve.
Aug 29, 2019 at 8:55
#131
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Matthews has a better points per game ... i know you said they'd be even if he had been healthy in those games, and you made some good points, but remember that Marner's ice time could go down. I value goals higher than assists and Matthews is a better 2-way player.


see ide say marner is the better 2 way player, i dont particularly think matthews defense is anything special. I value a guy whos laying his body out and blocking shots as well as backchecking equally. I value goals higher as well but its not like marner is having 10 goals and 80 assists... He had 26 goals. easily could have been 30+ if he had been selfish instead of setting people up. 20+ goals AND the ability to do everything i value that player. matthews is better at scoring but i think marner is better at the other aspects.
Aug 29, 2019 at 8:58
#132
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
I think majors should be reviewable ... while I do think that by the rules, the cross-check in game 7 on Pavelski should have been 2 minutes, i'd like to see the rules changed to make that a 5 minute major. I'd say 7 in the playoffs but it really depends on the hit ... and kick the players out of the game. If it's the finals maybe more like 4 or 5 ... but again, it depends on the hit and past suspension history. The DOPS needs to improve.


but see once you add in human element. the hit mcavoy laid could be viewed as "more egregious" than the hit krug weighed but Krug might be the guy getting suspended and mcavoy might get tossed. The less that is up for interpretation the better the product. I dont want to be like is that a minor? is that a major? how much contact is too much? did he sell it? Then hockey becomes soccer and basketball with flopping, and football with the "is it a catch?" scenarios. just leave it the way it is. make suspensions at the very least match how long the player concussed is out.
Aug 29, 2019 at 9:28
#133
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rangersandislesfan
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Quoting: hanson493
but see once you add in human element. the hit mcavoy laid could be viewed as "more egregious" than the hit krug weighed but Krug might be the guy getting suspended and mcavoy might get tossed. The less that is up for interpretation the better the product. I dont want to be like is that a minor? is that a major? how much contact is too much? did he sell it? Then hockey becomes soccer and basketball with flopping, and football with the "is it a catch?" scenarios. just leave it the way it is. make suspensions at the very least match how long the player concussed is out.


If it's to the head, suspend the player.
Aug 29, 2019 at 9:29
#134
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rangersandislesfan
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Quoting: hanson493
see ide say marner is the better 2 way player, i dont particularly think matthews defense is anything special. I value a guy whos laying his body out and blocking shots as well as backchecking equally. I value goals higher as well but its not like marner is having 10 goals and 80 assists... He had 26 goals. easily could have been 30+ if he had been selfish instead of setting people up. 20+ goals AND the ability to do everything i value that player. matthews is better at scoring but i think marner is better at the other aspects.

I thought you were saying Marner was as good at scoring.

I don't understand advanced stats very well, but by watching hockey I like what i've seen from Matthews' two-way game more than Marner's.

Like i was saying, you could compare him to Matthews or you could compare him to Aho.
Aug 29, 2019 at 9:41
#135
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
I thought you were saying Marner was as good at scoring.

I don't understand advanced stats very well, but by watching hockey I like what i've seen from Matthews' two-way game more than Marner's.

Like i was saying, you could compare him to Matthews or you could compare him to Aho.


He matches the aho player type better, but outproduced him all 3 years. which is why when i see people say well aho got this so marner should get that. well no marner has been better in all phases than aho has been his entire career.
Aug 29, 2019 at 9:42
#136
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
If it's to the head, suspend the player.


right but how long? and how can you distinguish real time or even on replay angles if its a bad shot or if its just a flop or if the player getting hit caused it to be a headshot? theres so many variables on the line you cant really make it a just suspend a shot to the head.
Aug 29, 2019 at 10:11
#137
Below Market Value
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Edited Aug 29, 2019 at 10:53
Quoting: rangersandislesfan
I thought you were saying Marner was as good at scoring.

I don't understand advanced stats very well, but by watching hockey I like what i've seen from Matthews' two-way game more than Marner's.

Like i was saying, you could compare him to Matthews or you could compare him to Aho.


I'd still take Matthews over Marner, because G > A and Matthews is better offensively, but Marner is better defensively than Matthews.
Aug 29, 2019 at 10:23
#138
get off my lawn...
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
I mean, we don't know everything that's going on behind the scenes, so i'm not going to say his father and his agent are the problem, because i don't know. But it sounds like that's very possible.

You mentioned Aho, and that's another comparable that could be used. If Aho is worth 8.454M then Marner should get around 8M ... there are too many players you could compare him to.


From what Darren and Paul have leaked to the media and straight up said, I certainly put it on them. Whether or not mitch thinks the same way I’m not sure. He has certainly acted with more class than his camp.

I think once a few more comparables sign and Ferris is done with his hostage like tactics they will come to the table and sign something reasonable.
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Aug 29, 2019 at 10:30
#139
get off my lawn...
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Quoting: hanson493
except that marner has led the team in points the last 2 years. so not every stat. Matthews scores more goals. marner has far more assists. comparing two different player types. im just saying you gave one gave 11.6m the other guy isnt unreasonable to ask for 11.6m as well... marner is just as important to that team and i hope he sits out so everyone can see that.


Matthews puts up more points per game and goals per game and goals in general. He also plays the most important position. The reason Matthews got the contracts is because he would have been buried in offersheets if he were to hit rfa. Marner not so much. The reason why... his demands are too much. Tavares is known to boost his linemates. I think he and marner make a good tandem. Equal share it is not though.

I don’t think anyone is arguing marner isn’t a great player. He will probably sign the largest deal out of elc ever by a winger. I think that is more than fair compensation.
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Aug 29, 2019 at 1:25
#140
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
So, to answer the question, is he a #1 d-man? Top pairing could mean #1 or #2.


Simple answer: No. He'd be the #1 D on a handful of teams, but some teams have 2 guys better.
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Aug 29, 2019 at 4:57
#141
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rangersandislesfan
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Quoting: hanson493
He matches the aho player type better, but outproduced him all 3 years. which is why when i see people say well aho got this so marner should get that. well no marner has been better in all phases than aho has been his entire career.


It's not all about points, though.
Aug 29, 2019 at 4:58
#142
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rangersandislesfan
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Quoting: hanson493
right but how long? and how can you distinguish real time or even on replay angles if its a bad shot or if its just a flop or if the player getting hit caused it to be a headshot? theres so many variables on the line you cant really make it a just suspend a shot to the head.

It depends on the hit. If there's a dive it can still be a suspension if the DOPS believes he got hit in the head.
Aug 29, 2019 at 4:59
#143
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rangersandislesfan
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Quoting: DoctorBreakfast
I'd still take Matthews over Marner, because G > A and Matthews is better offensively, but Marner is better defensively than Matthews.

I can't win an argument because I don't use advanced stats very much ... but by watching them play and with what i've heard, i consider Matthews to be the better defensive player. But that's just me.
Aug 29, 2019 at 4:59
#144
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rangersandislesfan
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Quoting: Brian2016
Simple answer: No. He'd be the #1 D on a handful of teams, but some teams have 2 guys better.

I consider him a #1, but it's arguable IMO.
Aug 29, 2019 at 5:00
#145
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rangersandislesfan
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Quoting: Brian2016
Simple answer: No. He'd be the #1 D on a handful of teams, but some teams have 2 guys better.


My question really is, is Werenski a top 31 d-man in the league? (Or good enough that if he's a #1 it's not a problem at all?)
Aug 30, 2019 at 3:22
#146
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
My question really is, is Werenski a top 31 d-man in the league? (Or good enough that if he's a #1 it's not a problem at all?)


It's an extremely difficult question. Most people would probably say yes based on his point totals, especially at even strength. It's close, but I would say not. He's def. top 15 offensively, but his defensive skills place him outside the top 31.
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Aug 30, 2019 at 3:25
#147
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
My question really is, is Werenski a top 31 d-man in the league? (Or good enough that if he's a #1 it's not a problem at all?)


You also gotta figure Dahlin and Miro are already better and Makar could eclipse Werenski as early as next season. And Columbus' PP and overall offensive production could fall drastically now that Panarin is gone.
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Aug 30, 2019 at 8:37
#148
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
It's not all about points, though.


tell me this raif. how do players get paid then. what makes marner different from say kapanen? its about points. its about overall production. Marner has outproduced aho in every single way over the past 3 years. I think he has outproduced matthews in everything except goals. thats not a knock on matthews, guy can put the puck in the net. I just think marner is a more well rounded player.
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Aug 30, 2019 at 8:39
#149
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
It depends on the hit. If there's a dive it can still be a suspension if the DOPS believes he got hit in the head.


right but theres a huge difference from getting smashed in the head and getting tapped. if the guy is good at selling it, they can look the exact same. What if the puck carrier is the reason it becomes a hit to the head? you are gunna suspend the other guy? its a contact sport. you just cant do it. you can do the blatant ones but the smaller ones, you really cant.
Aug 30, 2019 at 9:55
#150
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rangersandislesfan
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Quoting: Brian2016
It's an extremely difficult question. Most people would probably say yes based on his point totals, especially at even strength. It's close, but I would say not. He's def. top 15 offensively, but his defensive skills place him outside the top 31.


I don't think he's bad defensively.
 
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