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(MTL / NSH) - Weber for Subban

Who won the trade?
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Oct. 17, 2020 at 6:28 p.m.
#26
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Quoting: HabsForEver
At the time it wasn't spare parts. Every player Buffalo got back was decent players or prospects with good potential.


Look back at the comments from when the trade happened:
https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/150771
Everyone knew that Berglund & Sobotka were cap dumps, and while some people had more belief in Tage Thompson than they do now, he wasn’t viewed as one of St. Louis’s top prospects.

Edit: Here’s a post from a Sabres fan the day the trade happened:
Quoting: Dahlin_On_Me
Not completely loving this. This is hard for me because I sort of have a hockey crush on O'Reilly. I love everything about his game. He brings a lot more than just his points. Coaches dream player.

Looks like we got some spare and decining parts. A young prospect center with potential (maybe). Not impressed with his stats. (In fairness I don't know any of these players well) The sum of all this is less than O'Reilly. Blues win by a hair in the short term.

The gamble is on the bag of magic beans that are the late 1st and 2nd rounders. If either of these players pay off the Sabres win. Only time will tell.

For now it's even-ish, I think looking back in 4 years you'll see the Sabres got the better end of this.
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Nov. 9, 2020 at 10:47 a.m.
#27
Ville Koho
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Quoting: Jarvis
I like Weber but I think Preds win this trade due to Webers massive contract


we live in a society
Dec. 2, 2020 at 2:36 p.m.
#28
I make typos
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it is funny how wrong eveybody was about this trade
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Apr. 12, 2021 at 1:55 p.m.
#29
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how bad was this trade ...
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May 3, 2021 at 5:54 p.m.
#30
sen krak fan
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This trade, in the end, MTL won.
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May 3, 2021 at 11:32 p.m.
#31
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Quoting: Brad21
This trade, in the end, MTL won.


This sort of seems like a trade where no one won.

Montréal got 227 games over 4 seasons of good Weber before he fell off a cliff, and now they’re stuck with 5 more years at almost $8 million of a bad player.

Nashville got 2 seasons of Subban before he started his decline. They got 2 2nds for him before his value completely tanked. One 2nd turned into Egor Afanaseyev and Alexander Campbell, and the other was stupidly traded with a 3rd and Bonino for Kunin. Now Nashville does have to be wary of Weber retiring before the end of his contract, because it would cripple them cap-wise. So the Preds salvaged some value once they realized what they had done, but still a bad trade.

I guess the trade could be worth it for the habs depending on how much of an anchor Weber’s contract is for the extra 4 years.
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May 4, 2021 at 10:53 a.m.
#32
Ban Price trades
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
This sort of seems like a trade where no one won.

Montréal got 227 games over 4 seasons of good Weber before he fell off a cliff, and now they’re stuck with 5 more years at almost $8 million of a bad player.

Nashville got 2 seasons of Subban before he started his decline. They got 2 2nds for him before his value completely tanked. One 2nd turned into Egor Afanaseyev and Alexander Campbell, and the other was stupidly traded with a 3rd and Bonino for Kunin. Now Nashville does have to be wary of Weber retiring before the end of his contract, because it would cripple them cap-wise. So the Preds salvaged some value once they realized what they had done, but still a bad trade.

I guess the trade could be worth it for the habs depending on how much of an anchor Weber’s contract is for the extra 4 years.


Do you suspect that Montreal's staff/management were privy to Subban's upcoming decline and saw 4(ish) years of Weber as enough to keep them competitive(ish) and that dealing with the back end of his deal was something they could offset with trading him retained?

I don't often like to give Bergevin more credit than he's due, but the plan (from a distance) seems to me that Juulsen and Mete were looked at to take that next step forward while the Habs accumulated picks and prospects. The former didn't happen, but the Canadiens do have the spare assets to dump Weber at 50% retained on a team just looking to enter a rebuild (San Jose?). Romanov coming out of nowhere and an increased investment on defense prospects at least leads me to believe there's something planned to clean house a bit, no?
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May 4, 2021 at 11:05 a.m.
#33
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Quoting: BeterChiarelli
Do you suspect that Montreal's staff/management were privy to Subban's upcoming decline and saw 4(ish) years of Weber as enough to keep them competitive(ish) and that dealing with the back end of his deal was something they could offset with trading him retained?

I don't often like to give Bergevin more credit than he's due, but the plan (from a distance) seems to me that Juulsen and Mete were looked at to take that next step forward while the Habs accumulated picks and prospects. The former didn't happen, but the Canadiens do have the spare assets to dump Weber at 50% retained on a team just looking to enter a rebuild (San Jose?). Romanov coming out of nowhere and an increased investment on defense prospects at least leads me to believe there's something planned to clean house a bit, no?


I definitely think this was a combination of trying to move Subban’s personality/attitude, while trying to make the team better in the short term. He certainly accomplished his goal.

I do think that the current management likes Weber more as a player than I do right now. Otherwise he wouldn’t be playing top minutes in every situation. And that’s probably mostly because of a disagreement in what constitutes good defensive play, and how effective he is on the PP.

Plus this contract would look considerably more manageable and honestly wouldn’t be that much of a problem if we weren’t staring at multiple years of a flat cap.
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May 4, 2021 at 11:17 a.m.
#34
Ban Price trades
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
I definitely think this was a combination of trying to move Subban’s personality/attitude, while trying to make the team better in the short term. He certainly accomplished his goal.

I do think that the current management likes Weber more as a player than I do right now. Otherwise he wouldn’t be playing top minutes in every situation. And that’s probably mostly because of a disagreement in what constitutes good defensive play, and how effective he is on the PP.

Plus this contract would look considerably more manageable and honestly wouldn’t be that much of a problem if we weren’t staring at multiple years of a flat cap.


Yeah hindsight with covid is a conundrum and is definitely one of the factors more in line with tipping this towards equal. I genuinely thought that it was an even trade at the time that Nashville would win - I didn't expect Subban to drop off a cliff and Weber was already an old man - but the Habs clearly had some idea as to what they were doing. Good on them.

I agree with his usage being somewhat inappropriate. I think Caufield gives them a new look for who the designated shooter is on the powerplay and reckon Petry should probably be getting those quality minutes for his ability to dish from the point. Weber won't like it much, but he has to see the writing on the wall and that his minutes need to start getting scaled back. Coaching staff will get there too. Part of the immediate problem (in my eyes) is the lack of exceptional options on the left tbh. Nobody outside of Montreal knows what a Kulak is and Edmundson came as advertised. Romanov will get there, but these are still his first steps. Chiarot is a very quiet, quality piece, but he's only one man. Can't help but wonder how damn good Sergachev would look on this blueline right now.

I suspect that Montreal will be one of the teams that deals with the Kraken after expansion. A Drouin-for-defenceman deal perhaps? Oh the irony.
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May 4, 2021 at 12:20 p.m.
#35
sen krak fan
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
This sort of seems like a trade where no one won.

Montréal got 227 games over 4 seasons of good Weber before he fell off a cliff, and now they’re stuck with 5 more years at almost $8 million of a bad player.

Nashville got 2 seasons of Subban before he started his decline. They got 2 2nds for him before his value completely tanked. One 2nd turned into Egor Afanaseyev and Alexander Campbell, and the other was stupidly traded with a 3rd and Bonino for Kunin. Now Nashville does have to be wary of Weber retiring before the end of his contract, because it would cripple them cap-wise. So the Preds salvaged some value once they realized what they had done, but still a bad trade.

I guess the trade could be worth it for the habs depending on how much of an anchor Weber’s contract is for the extra 4 years.


Ya maybe.
May 4, 2021 at 1:00 p.m.
#36
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Quoting: BeterChiarelli
Yeah hindsight with covid is a conundrum and is definitely one of the factors more in line with tipping this towards equal. I genuinely thought that it was an even trade at the time that Nashville would win - I didn't expect Subban to drop off a cliff and Weber was already an old man - but the Habs clearly had some idea as to what they were doing. Good on them.

I agree with his usage being somewhat inappropriate. I think Caufield gives them a new look for who the designated shooter is on the powerplay and reckon Petry should probably be getting those quality minutes for his ability to dish from the point. Weber won't like it much, but he has to see the writing on the wall and that his minutes need to start getting scaled back. Coaching staff will get there too. Part of the immediate problem (in my eyes) is the lack of exceptional options on the left tbh. Nobody outside of Montreal knows what a Kulak is and Edmundson came as advertised. Romanov will get there, but these are still his first steps. Chiarot is a very quiet, quality piece, but he's only one man. Can't help but wonder how damn good Sergachev would look on this blueline right now.

I suspect that Montreal will be one of the teams that deals with the Kraken after expansion. A Drouin-for-defenceman deal perhaps? Oh the irony.


I doubt the habs will go for a defenseman unless they’re really cheap and cost a fair price. They have to deal with their own players first with all the contracts up. Drouin isn’t going anywhere, and any improvement on the habs’ blueline will likely come in the form of improvement from Romanov.
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Jun. 18, 2021 at 2:48 p.m.
#37
sen krak fan
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K now I think that this is a trade that both teams ended up losing.
Jun. 18, 2021 at 8:04 p.m.
#38
pld apologist
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imagine telling a new hockey fan, or even just a younger one, about how huge this trade was back in our day. LMAO
Sep. 20, 2022 at 9:31 a.m.
#39
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so

both being retired

who won the trade?
Sep. 20, 2022 at 2:11 p.m.
#40
WentWughes
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Quoting: pinslack
so

both being retired

who won the trade?


Think it worked out well for both teams. They both led their teams in SC, Weber was an ideal Captain while he was here. Nashville got half decent assets when they traded him away (Can't really count that I suppose)
Sep. 20, 2022 at 3:13 p.m.
#41
Leafs Sufferer
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Quoting: pinslack
so

both being retired

who won the trade?


Too soon to tell, gotta wait to see how it plays out.
Sep. 20, 2022 at 8:06 p.m.
#42
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Quoting: pinslack
so

both being retired

who won the trade?


Well the cap hits ended up affecting neither team in the end. Neither did age. Just injuries for Weber, and a fall off a cliff for PK (but that was mostly after getting traded to New Jersey).

The Preds got 3 years out of Subban and a couple other assets for trading him away. There were downsides to losing Weber off-ice. There were maybe benefits to adding Subban off-ice? (A Preds fan would know this better than I do) On-ice for the 3 years Subban was there it probably would’ve been a wash. (Since their D-core was great regardless)

The habs got 5 years out of Weber. There were downsides to losing Subban off-ice, but a lot of upsides to adding Weber on-ice and off-ice. The habs definitely would’ve fallen apart quicker and more spectacularly if they didn’t have Weber, but Subban instead. The habs needed a leader and a steady presence on D.

Montréal definitely won this trade, no question. But Nashville definitely didn’t lose. So for them it’s probably a wash at worst, but probably a slight win.
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Oct. 17, 2022 at 1:32 p.m.
#43
Hakuna Matata
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In the end nobody really won this trade

The first true win win trade

Nice
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Oct. 17, 2022 at 4:21 p.m.
#44
torontos finest
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Statistical Profile for the trade:

PK Subban played 3 seasons in Nashville. During the regular season, he played 211 games, scored 35 goals and provided 95 assists for 130 points. During the playoffs, he played 41 games, scored 7 goals and provided 17 assists for 24 points. His PTS/GP was 0.62 during the regular season and 0.59 during the playoffs. If you consider Point Shares, PK Subban earned his team 22.4 over his three seasons, which is worth about 0.11 per game.

Shea Weber played 5 seasons in Montreal. During the regular season, he played 275 games, scored 58 goals and provided 88 assists for 146 points. During the playoffs, he played 38 games, scored 5 goals and provided 9 assists for 14 points. His PTS/GP was 0.53 during the regular season and 0.37 during the playoffs. Shea Weber earned his team 29.8 over his fiveseasons, which is worth about 0.11 per game.

Both players made it to the Stanley Cup final with their respective team, and both players were named to two NHL All-Star Games while playing for their respective teams. PK Subban made the 2nd All-Star NHL team in 2018. Shea Weber spent four years as captain of the Canadiens.

Think you can call this one even in retrospect.

Not going to consider the ROI for either player, but the trade tree on both sides of this deal is still active. For Nashville, Egor Afanasyev, Alexander Campbell, John Leonard, Adam Wilsby and San Jose's 2022 3rd round pick are linked to this trade. For Montreal, Evgeni Dadonov is.
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Nov. 1, 2022 at 3:44 p.m.
#45
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Funny to look at this trade now
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Nov. 2, 2022 at 9:47 p.m.
#46
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Quoting: mondo
Statistical Profile for the trade:

PK Subban played 3 seasons in Nashville. During the regular season, he played 211 games, scored 35 goals and provided 95 assists for 130 points. During the playoffs, he played 41 games, scored 7 goals and provided 17 assists for 24 points. His PTS/GP was 0.62 during the regular season and 0.59 during the playoffs. If you consider Point Shares, PK Subban earned his team 22.4 over his three seasons, which is worth about 0.11 per game.

Shea Weber played 5 seasons in Montreal. During the regular season, he played 275 games, scored 58 goals and provided 88 assists for 146 points. During the playoffs, he played 38 games, scored 5 goals and provided 9 assists for 14 points. His PTS/GP was 0.53 during the regular season and 0.37 during the playoffs. Shea Weber earned his team 29.8 over his fiveseasons, which is worth about 0.11 per game.

Both players made it to the Stanley Cup final with their respective team, and both players were named to two NHL All-Star Games while playing for their respective teams. PK Subban made the 2nd All-Star NHL team in 2018. Shea Weber spent four years as captain of the Canadiens.

Think you can call this one even in retrospect.

Not going to consider the ROI for either player, but the trade tree on both sides of this deal is still active. For Nashville, Egor Afanasyev, Alexander Campbell, John Leonard, Adam Wilsby and San Jose's 2022 3rd round pick are linked to this trade. For Montreal, Evgeni Dadonov is.


I agree that this was pretty much even in terms of what the two players did, so I’d call it a slight win for Montreal due to Weber’s lower cap hit. What surprised me was that their 4-year age difference turned out not to be a non-factor. Subban lasted only one year longer in the league than Weber, and you could argue that Weber actually put in more good years after the trade than Subban did.
 
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