Why the leafs arent contenders

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Ive said this multiple times. i agree 100%. IF Marner hold out this team is in serious trouble, and leafs fans dont see it. I keep getting, "there will be plenty of scoring" but you got rid of your entire PK unit, you got rid of one of your only physical players in what was a necessary move but barrie comes over with no term. Toronto has all but rielly hitting fa this year. thats horrible news for toronto and you better hope those kids in the system can play otherwise that "championship window" is really only this year/maybe next year. Its not plausible to spend half your payroll on 4 players.

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Sep. 13, 2019 at 10:36 a.m.

#6

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Quoting: F50marco

You know who weren't real contenders also? The St Louis Blues.

This team is absolutely good enough to beat anyone in the league. But so are teams that finish 8th in the conference..... that's the problem with the analogy of being "contenders".

im salty, but the blues were gifted that run. Refs lost their balls when the sharks vs vegas series was ruined by the 5 minute false major. the worst playoff officiating i have ever seen. zero consistency.

Sep. 13, 2019 at 10:38 a.m.

#7

GM Hockeysaurus Rex

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They have big depth. The bottom-6 is so important in later parts of playoffs and they have like 4 bottom-6 lines to work with plus Marlies. Defense is not mediocre. Rielly is top-10 Dman in the league and both Muzzin and Barrie are close to top-20 or in for some people (just outside for me), plus Dermott who is great young player and young guys coming up like Sandin and Liljegren who are both incredibly talented and developing on fast rate. I agree they are not contenders because there are still a lot of development to go but their window is not 4-5yrs, especially with core of Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Marner and so so so on.. they are deep team, one of the best teams in the league but not contenders yet.

Sep. 13, 2019 at 10:41 a.m.

#8

GM Hockeysaurus Rex

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Quoting: bsilk18

I don't care what anyone says.... You just said everything right! and everything I have been thinking over the past year lol

The difference between a GM and a good GM is that while the GM might make good moves and big moves, the good GM thinks about the future. The issue with signing Tavares is that they knew they had Matthews, Marner, Nylander, among other big name RFAs who were gonna want a lot of money. Signing Tavares is cool and all, but when u mess up your future by taking ALL of that cap space, well it isn't a good move. This isn't hindsight, it was foresight that the leafs GM didn't use

Uhm.. drafting steals in draft, getting future assets for unsigned rookies and getting older players out while promoting your own developed ones is definitely screwing up your future. Capwise we are okay. We can clear cap space to like 15M dollars with three moves (two LTIRs and trading Ceci.).. we are thinking about future..

Sep. 13, 2019 at 10:44 a.m.

#9

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Quoting: hanson493

im salty, but the blues were gifted that run. Refs lost their balls when the sharks vs vegas series was ruined by the 5 minute false major. the worst playoff officiating i have ever seen. zero consistency.

I don't think there was Stanley cup where the team that won didn't have either some silly luck or officiating that helped them out or something. As the saying goes, you got to be good to be lucky sometimes.

Sep. 13, 2019 at 10:45 a.m.

#10

swinny

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I am gonna assume that your a Rangers fan given your handle.

So..... if signing Traveres was a long term error (and I tend to agree), then when we look at the Rangers who just signed Panarin.... well, dude. You see the parralel?

Pot calling the kettle black - if my assumption is correct.

Sep. 13, 2019 at 10:49 a.m.

#11

Mike_Gartner

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Quoting: F50marco

You know who weren't real contenders also? The St Louis Blues.

This team is absolutely good enough to beat anyone in the league. But so are teams that finish 8th in the conference..... that's the problem with the analogy of being "contenders".

wrong. the Blues were real contenders. the fluke was not them winning the cup, it was their abysmal start to the season.

Sep. 13, 2019 at 10:49 a.m.

#12

Silkysmooth42

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Quoting: SammyT_51

Uhm.. drafting steals in draft, getting future assets for unsigned rookies and getting older players out while promoting your own developed ones is definitely screwing up your future. Capwise we are okay. We can clear cap space to like 15M dollars with three moves (two LTIRs and trading Ceci.).. we are thinking about future..

First off, you are what im talking about lol, u came here to fight... You are correct they drafted well, but they are not "okay" in cap space (they are currently AT THE CAP without having Marner signed), and they are not trading away Ceci because they just traded FOR him so that made no sense either... honestly I don't fully understand LTIR, and im sure it could work, but until anything happens, you have to realize that we are right, the leafs left themselves in a crappy cap position. No argument lol

Sep. 13, 2019 at 10:51 a.m.

#13

Barbs

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Quoting: F50marco

You know who weren't real contenders also? The St Louis Blues.

This team is absolutely good enough to beat anyone in the league. But so are teams that finish 8th in the conference..... that's the problem with the analogy of being "contenders".

Well said

Sep. 13, 2019 at 10:54 a.m.

#14

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Quoting: Mike_Gartner

wrong. the Blues were real contenders. the fluke was not them winning the cup, it was their abysmal start to the season.

OK you believe what you want. I guess its to be expected that Vezina calibre goalies come out of nowhere to steal the show and its normal for "contenders' to be the worst team in the league Jan 1st despite it never happening before...... That was all part of the plan... rolling eyes

Sep. 13, 2019 at 10:56 a.m.

#15

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Quoting: F50marco

I don't think there was Stanley cup where the team that won didn't have either some silly luck or officiating that helped them out or something. As the saying goes, you got to be good to be lucky sometimes.

dont get me wrong, if bruins had won, the narrative would have been "well they didnt play any good teams" but i mean just watching the different series and the way some were officiated vs other you could see a major difference.

Sep. 13, 2019 at 10:58 a.m.

#16

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Quoting: swinny

I am gonna assume that your a Rangers fan given your handle.

So..... if signing Traveres was a long term error (and I tend to agree), then when we look at the Rangers who just signed Panarin.... well, dude. You see the parralel?

Pot calling the kettle black - if my assumption is correct.

The difference is that with panarin he is their highest earner and only lundqvist and trouba are close (3 different positions not all on offense). They signed tavares at 11m then gave out 18m to matthews and nylander. thats 29m in 3 offensive players. they were betting on marner not hitting above a point per game in a contract year and thats biting them hard right now. they are about to pay close to 40 million in 4 offensive players. and pay 41.5 million to the other 19 players. not exactly great to build depth that way.

Sep. 13, 2019 at 11:01 a.m.

#17

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Quoting: hanson493

dont get me wrong, if bruins had won, the narrative would have been "well they didnt play any good teams" but i mean just watching the different series and the way some were officiated vs other you could see a major difference.

They were bad, don't get me wrong but most years there are a couple egregious calls that end up giving the edge to the opposing teams.

Sep. 13, 2019 at 11:03 a.m.

#18

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Quoting: F50marco

They were bad, don't get me wrong but most years there are a couple egregious calls that end up giving the edge to the opposing teams.

this year was notoriously bad though. like ive seen some bad calls get made and people are human i get it, but this year just seems like every series had multiple bad ones everywhere.

Sep. 13, 2019 at 11:09 a.m.

#19

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Quoting: hanson493

this year was notoriously bad though. like ive seen some bad calls get made and people are human i get it, but this year just seems like every series had multiple bad ones everywhere.

Yeah there were some pretty bad calls.

Sep. 13, 2019 at 11:17 a.m.

#20

swinny

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Quoting: hanson493

The difference is that with panarin he is their highest earner and only lundqvist and trouba are close (3 different positions not all on offense). They signed tavares at 11m then gave out 18m to matthews and nylander. thats 29m in 3 offensive players. they were betting on marner not hitting above a point per game in a contract year and thats biting them hard right now. they are about to pay close to 40 million in 4 offensive players. and pay 41.5 million to the other 19 players. not exactly great to build depth that way.

I suspect the Rangers are headed down the same path bud. Longterm thinking.

Sep. 13, 2019 at 11:23 a.m.

#21

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Quoting: swinny

I suspect the Rangers are headed down the same path bud. Longterm thinking.

how so? rangers are drafting quality talent now that will be ready to really take over and compete in the next 3 years. in 2 years these cap values come off their books: 8.5 for lundqvist, 5.7 for staal, 4.35 for smith. thats almost 20m in available cap to give their young developing players to build out their depth. if they dont overpay a FA like shatty they will be fine. Next year dead cap wise will be tough but its not like they need to reup anyone thats pivotal to their success. they dont need to rebuild an entire defense or sign a bunch of higher priced rfas. kreider probably gets traded at the deadline for more draft capital. namestnikov walks, strome may or may not resign. but they are in a way way way better situation right now than toronto is (other than contending immediately)

Sep. 13, 2019 at 11:25 a.m.

#22

GM Hockeysaurus Rex

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Quoting: bsilk18

First off, you are what im talking about lol, u came here to fight... You are correct they drafted well, but they are not "okay" in cap space (they are currently AT THE CAP without having Marner signed), and they are not trading away Ceci because they just traded FOR him so that made no sense either... honestly I don't fully understand LTIR, and im sure it could work, but until anything happens, you have to realize that we are right, the leafs left themselves in a crappy cap position. No argument lol

Im not here for fight. Im here to tell people like you what is wrong about your statement. The Leafs left themselves in this situation because they felt like it was important to get top-10 centerman in the league because it raises the quality of this team. We are fine capwise and futurewise.. but not contenders, that I agree on.

Sep. 13, 2019 at 11:30 a.m.

#23

KingLundqvist30

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Quoting: bsilk18

I don't care what anyone says.... You just said everything right! and everything I have been thinking over the past year lol

The difference between a GM and a good GM is that while the GM might make good moves and big moves, the good GM thinks about the future. The issue with signing Tavares is that they knew they had Matthews, Marner, Nylander, among other big name RFAs who were gonna want a lot of money. Signing Tavares is cool and all, but when u mess up your future by taking ALL of that cap space, well it isn't a good move. This isn't hindsight, it was foresight that the leafs GM didn't use

Quoting: bsilk18

Also thank you! You get it, the key here is to be respectful and nice to people so they have no reason to get mad

... Thats what I do, but people just come on here with no respect for anyone

Quoting: hanson493

Ive said this multiple times. i agree 100%. IF Marner hold out this team is in serious trouble, and leafs fans dont see it. I keep getting, "there will be plenty of scoring" but you got rid of your entire PK unit, you got rid of one of your only physical players in what was a necessary move but barrie comes over with no term. Toronto has all but rielly hitting fa this year. thats horrible news for toronto and you better hope those kids in the system can play otherwise that "championship window" is really only this year/maybe next year. Its not plausible to spend half your payroll on 4 players.

Yea. It’s taken me a decent amount of research. I also did a build on what it would be like if they didn’t sign Tavares.

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Sep. 13, 2019 at 11:31 a.m.

#24

KingLundqvist30

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Quoting: SammyT_51

They have big depth. The bottom-6 is so important in later parts of playoffs and they have like 4 bottom-6 lines to work with plus Marlies. Defense is not mediocre. Rielly is top-10 Dman in the league and both Muzzin and Barrie are close to top-20 or in for some people (just outside for me), plus Dermott who is great young player and young guys coming up like Sandin and Liljegren who are both incredibly talented and developing on fast rate. I agree they are not contenders because there are still a lot of development to go but their window is not 4-5yrs, especially with core of Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Marner and so so so on.. they are deep team, one of the best teams in the league but not contenders yet.

Their biggest issue right now is cap

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Sep. 13, 2019 at 11:42 a.m.

#25