Forums/Armchair-GM

Nylanders holdout was x10 worse than Marners

Created by: CBJ4CUP
Initial Creation Date: Sep 14, 2019
Published: Sep 14, 2019 at 10:46 am
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Team Explanation
If youre hating anyone in this contract, it should either be directed at Nylander... or MAtthews since he set the bar for these crazy new RFA's deal.

Marner did nothing wrong in this contract negoations, infact he made it to the start of training camp and will be there for game 1
Buyouts
  • Mikhail Grabovski: $0
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
  • Robin Lehner: $1,100,000 (22%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2020
TOR
CBJ
TOR
VGK
TOR
CAR
COL
EDM
SJS
STL
WPG
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
27$81,500,000$95,965,199$0$0-$14,465,199
Left WingCenterRight Wing
TOR
Johnsson, Andreas
$3,400,000
LW
UFA - 4
TOR
Matthews, Auston
$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
$10,893,000
RW
UFA - 6
TOR
Hyman, Zach
$2,250,000
LW
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Tavares, John
$11,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 6
TOR
Nylander, William
$6,962,366
RW, LW
UFA - 5
TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
$925,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
TOR
Kerfoot, Alexander
$3,500,000
C, LW
UFA - 4
TOR
Horton, Nathan
$5,300,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Petan, Nicolas
$775,000
LW, RW, C
RFA - 2
TOR
Shore, Nick
$750,000
C
UFA - 1
TOR
Clarkson, David
$5,250,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Agostino, Kenny
$737,500
LW
UFA - 2
TOR
Spezza, Jason
$700,000
C, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Kapanen, Kasperi
$3,200,000
RW
RFA - 3
TOR
Moore, Trevor
$775,000
RW, LW
RFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
TOR
Ceci, Cody
$4,500,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Andersen, Frederik
$5,000,000
G
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Muzzin, Jake
$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
TOR
Barrie, Tyson
$2,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Hutchinson, Michael
$700,000
G
UFA - 1
TOR
Dermott, Travis
$863,333
LD
RFA - 1
TOR
Schmaltz, Jordan
$700,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Harpur, Ben
$725,000
LD
RFA - 1
TOR
Holl, Justin
$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Marincin, Martin
$700,000
LD
UFA - 1

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Sep 14, 2019 at 10:49
#1
The Enlightened One
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 5,560
Likes: 2,536
Weak bait try again
Sep 14, 2019 at 10:49
#2
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 5,539
Likes: 1,394
you're right. they should have battled with nylander, it would have set a precedent. now matthews, you dont fight with, because he's your best player. whatever he wnats, you give him. but if they fiught nylander, marner would be signed to really good contract right now, and the rfa market wouldn't have been ludicrous.
CBJ4CUP liked this.
Sep 14, 2019 at 10:49
#3
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 666
Likes: 155
Quoting: Random2152
Weak bait try again


https://twitter.com/listenbts/status/1169629429678493699
Sep 14, 2019 at 10:56
#4
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 7,498
Likes: 3,439
Nylander's is the only contract that is good team value. Matthews took them to the mat, but he's your Captain, and your Franchise Centre, you have to pay the man.

The fact that they even entertained a number starting with 10 for Marner is absurd.
Random2152 liked this.
Sep 14, 2019 at 10:59
#5
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 666
Likes: 155
Quoting: Claesson4Norris
Nylander's is the only contract that is good team value. Matthews took them to the mat, but he's your Captain, and your Franchise Centre, you have to pay the man.

The fact that they even entertained a number starting with 10 for Marner is absurd.


Nylanders contract is fine if he puts up 70 points... but he has yet to do that yet, so its not a good team value yet..

but thats beside the point for the point I was trying to make... He held out and the leafs ultimately budged and gave nylander what he wanted, and in fact paid him for all the time he missed at the start of the season aswell...
Sep 14, 2019 at 10:59
#6
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 656
Likes: 176
If you want to blame anyone , Blame Peter Chiarelli for the new wave of second contracts coming out of entry level deals . He started this whole roller coaster ride with McJesus and Draisaetl deals . Till then the norm was bridge deals so the player had a few more years to prove himself . All these deals are leading to a lockout so the owners can get the next CBA to address this very issue. The real losers are good players. With teams becoming top heavy in Salaries your second and third line players are the ones getting squeezed financially. As team are going to have to look for lower salaries from players in the middle range to stay under the cap . This is still a team sport . Teams are going to be hard pressed to roll 4 good lines being so top heavy in salaries.
Sep 14, 2019 at 11:03
#7
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 666
Likes: 155
Quoting: Swagmaster
If you want to blame anyone , Blame Peter Chiarelli for the new wave of second contracts coming out of entry level deals . He started this whole roller coaster ride with McJesus and Draisaetl deals . Till then the norm was bridge deals so the player had a few more years to prove himself . All these deals are leading to a lockout so the owners can get the next CBA to address this very issue. The real losers are good players. With teams becoming top heavy in Salaries your second and third line players are the ones getting squeezed financially. As team are going to have to look for lower salaries from players in the middle range to stay under the cap . This is still a team sport . Teams are going to be hard pressed to roll 4 good lines being so top heavy in salaries.


HOw can we blame Chiarelli when Drasital and Mcdavid are one some of the best contracts in the nhl? I get your point youre trying to make.... but the person to blame is Dubas, hes the one who gave matthews a 5 year deal with no money discount really(or not much), atleast chiarelli gave 8 year deals..
Sep 14, 2019 at 11:05
#8
get off my lawn...
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 12,489
Likes: 6,338
Quoting: CBJ4CUP
Nylanders contract is fine if he puts up 70 points... but he has yet to do that yet, so its not a good team value yet..

but thats beside the point for the point I was trying to make... He held out and the leafs ultimately budged and gave nylander what he wanted, and in fact paid him for all the time he missed at the start of the season aswell...


Way off base... Nylander wanted 8.5m, he got 6.9m If you go watch the 40 min long interview Dubas does with Bobby Mac he explains the whole process. The issue was mainly term, nylander did not want a bridge. I think a lot of people forget that nylander gave up 3.7m out if his own pocket to help the leafs cap situation out over the 6 years of term.

For what it’s worth... watch what happened with Reinhart and tell me that’s how you wanted nylander to go. That next contract will be a mess.

Glad you realize that Matthews was going to get what he gets. He did get negotiated down a bit but that was a zero leverage negotiation.
Sep 14, 2019 at 11:09
#9
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 666
Likes: 155
Quoting: Jamiepo
Way off base... Nylander wanted 8.5m, he got 6.9m If you go watch the 40 min long interview Dubas does with Bobby Mac he explains the whole process. The issue was mainly term, nylander did not want a bridge. I think a lot of people forget that nylander gave up 3.7m out if his own pocket to help the leafs cap situation out over the 6 years of term.

For what it’s worth... watch what happened with Reinhart and tell me that’s how you wanted nylander to go. That next contract will be a mess.

Glad you realize that Matthews was going to get what he gets. He did get negotiated down a bit but that was a zero leverage negotiation.


He wanted that 8.5mil on a long term contract... Nylander got the best of both worlds with a 6 year deal with making 7mil still a year....

And the point is Nylander held out til December, marner is missing nothen... but marner will some how be the bad guy still
Sep 14, 2019 at 11:22
#10
get off my lawn...
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 12,489
Likes: 6,338
Quoting: CBJ4CUP
He wanted that 8.5mil on a long term contract... Nylander got the best of both worlds with a 6 year deal with making 7mil still a year....

And the point is Nylander held out til December, marner is missing nothen... but marner will some how be the bad guy still


Marner’s not a “bad guy”... to the contrary he seems like a very decent human being. Does he have the worst contract on the team? Yes... that’s just plain and simple. Hey if ceci turns out to be a bag of ass... then maybe it’s him. Marner will grow into his contract and everything will be just fine. I’ve had him pegged for 6x 10.5m for the last 3 months. We all knew he was getting an overpay. Between his dad and his camp.. which hey, good for them. They got Mitch more money. I like the business end of hockey and pondering the cap/cba. But I also love the leafs and hockey in general. I’ve learned to separate the business from the game. In that regard it’s great to have Mitch back. On the business side, oh well, not going to hold any grudges.
CBJ4CUP liked this.
Sep 14, 2019 at 11:32
#11
Habs4life
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 344
Likes: 37
Quoting: CBJ4CUP
He wanted that 8.5mil on a long term contract... Nylander got the best of both worlds with a 6 year deal with making 7mil still a year....

And the point is Nylander held out til December, marner is missing nothen... but marner will some how be the bad guy still


So Nylander wanted 8.5mil long term. He got 7 for 6 years. What were the leafs offering him before the hold out?
Sep 14, 2019 at 11:40
#12
BrandonDubinskyGoat
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 453
Quoting: Captain_Koivu_
So Nylander wanted 8.5mil long term. He got 7 for 6 years. What were the leafs offering him before the hold out?


The Leafs wanted to offer Nylander 3 years at 5.75 million AAV but Nylander wanted maybe 6 years 8.75 million.
Sep 14, 2019 at 11:50
#13
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 31,673
Likes: 8,052
NYLANDERS HOLDOUT WAS X10 WORSE THAN MARNERS. Sorry, Nylander was not a hold out. He was unsigned RFA...free to sign with any team in any league.

Nylander's not being on the team in September, October, November wasn't a problem. The Leafs were at a 120 point pace when he was signed on December 1. His return to the ice hurt the Leafs. His contact...is debatable. I think it's 500,000 too high, but that is subjective.
Sep 14, 2019 at 11:59
#14
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 656
Likes: 176
Quoting: CBJ4CUP
HOw can we blame Chiarelli when Drasital and Mcdavid are one some of the best contracts in the nhl? I get your point youre trying to make.... but the person to blame is Dubas, hes the one who gave matthews a 5 year deal with no money discount really(or not much), atleast chiarelli gave 8 year deals..


The fact is those deals effected everyone issued after them . Imagine if they were given bridge deals as was the standard. This will lead to a lockout and the biggest issue will be second contracts. Dubas hands were tied by all the contracts issued before he gave theses deals. Dubas had the misfortune of all his young stars developing and needing deals at the same time . I am no Dubas fan .
Sep 14, 2019 at 12:51
#15
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 666
Likes: 155
Quoting: palhal
NYLANDERS HOLDOUT WAS X10 WORSE THAN MARNERS. Sorry, Nylander was not a hold out. He was unsigned RFA...free to sign with any team in any league.

Nylander's not being on the team in September, October, November wasn't a problem. The Leafs were at a 120 point pace when he was signed on December 1. His return to the ice hurt the Leafs. His contact...is debatable. I think it's 500,000 too high, but that is subjective.


You legit just proved my point... him sitting out hurt his game and the leafs game... thank you
Sep 14, 2019 at 12:53
#16
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 666
Likes: 155
Quoting: Swagmaster
The fact is those deals effected everyone issued after them . Imagine if they were given bridge deals as was the standard. This will lead to a lockout and the biggest issue will be second contracts. Dubas hands were tied by all the contracts issued before he gave theses deals. Dubas had the misfortune of all his young stars developing and needing deals at the same time . I am no Dubas fan .[/
Dubas tied his own hands.. he coulda done what the oilers did wit mcdavid and draistal...
Sep 14, 2019 at 1:03
#17
Frolik Deez Nutz
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 373
Likes: 42
Matthews gunna be hurt for 20 games and put up 50 pts, while Marner plays 82 and puts up 100+
CBJ4CUP liked this.
Sep 14, 2019 at 4:02
#18
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 31,673
Likes: 8,052
Quoting: CBJ4CUP
You legit just proved my point... him sitting out hurt his game and the leafs game... thank you


Every player is different when they miss time at the beginning of the season especially. IMO Nylander was absolutely terrible last season. Wished the Leafs had made a "contract stand" and not overpay him. Yeah he still might have signed a contract and played last season but he was undeserving of much of his ice time he received. It's like the Leafs played him hoping at some he would play well to justify the contract he received.
Sep 14, 2019 at 8:43
#19
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 666
Likes: 155
Quoting: palhal
Every player is different when they miss time at the beginning of the season especially. IMO Nylander was absolutely terrible last season. Wished the Leafs had made a "contract stand" and not overpay him. Yeah he still might have signed a contract and played last season but he was undeserving of much of his ice time he received. It's like the Leafs played him hoping at some he would play well to justify the contract he received.


He recieved low ice time because he was under performing, like u said.. id say thats fair
 
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