Forums/Armchair-GM

Leafs

Created by: Eli
Initial Creation Date: Sep 20, 2019
Published: Sep 20 at 11:32 am
Team: 2019-20 Washington Capitals
Team Explanation
hat tip to Jon Sorensen for keeping this alive: https://novacapsfans.com/2019/09/20/william-nylander-and-nicklas-backstrom-the-latest-addition-to-the-bromance/?fbclid=IwAR06h7mlSr9YI8Zi_mzUIszJM9gbtG-6-pFCAgBJriHMIW4sQebr1xABtls
Trades
WSH
  1. Nylander, William
TOR
  1. Oshie, T.J.
  2. Gudas, Radko
  3. 2020 2nd round pick (COL)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2020
WSH
WSH
ARI
WSH
WSH
WSH
2021
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
2022
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$81,487,493$1,150,000$215,000$12,507
Left WingCenterRight Wing
WSH
Ovechkin, Alex
$9,538,462
LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 2
WSH
Kuznetsov, Evgeny
$7,800,000
C
NTC
UFA - 6
WSH
Wilson, Tom
$5,166,666
RW
UFA - 5
WSH
Vrána, Jakub
$3,350,000
LW
RFA - 2
WSH
Bäckström, Nicklas
$6,700,000
C
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Nylander, William
$6,962,366
RW, C
UFA - 5
WSH
Hagelin, Carl
$2,750,000
LW
UFA - 4
WSH
Eller, Lars
$3,500,000
C
UFA - 4
WSH
Pánik, Richard
$2,750,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
WSH
Hathaway, Garnet
$1,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
WSH
Dowd, Nic
$750,000
C
UFA - 3
WSH
Boyd, Travis
$800,000
C, RW
RFA - 1
WSH
Leipsic, Brendan
$700,000
LW
RFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
WSH
Kempný, Michal
$2,500,000
LD
UFA - 3
WSH
Carlson, John
$8,000,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 7
WSH
Holtby, Braden
$6,100,000
G
NTC
UFA - 1
WSH
Orlov, Dmitry
$5,100,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 4
WSH
Jensen, Nick
$2,500,000
RD
UFA - 4
WSH
Copley, Pheonix
$1,100,000
G
UFA - 3
WSH
Djoos, Christian
$1,250,000
LD
RFA - 1
WSH
Siegenthaler, Jonas
$714,166
RD
RFA - 1
WSH
Fehérváry, Martin
$805,833
LD
RFA - 3

Embed Code

  • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
  • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

Text-Embed

Click to Highlight
Sep 20 at 11:34
#1
Jack
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,067
Likes: 648
No. What about hyman and something else for gudas
Eli liked this.
Sep 20 at 11:38
#2
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 822
Likes: 167
Caps don't need Hyman
Eli liked this.
Sep 20 at 11:43
#3
Thread Starter
Who adds what?
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,591
Likes: 1,639
Quoting: Jack_
No. What about hyman and something else for gudas


Thanks. That'd be a heck of a something else....?
Sep 20 at 11:54
#4
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 47
Likes: 20
id replace fehervary with lewington so we could lets fehervary's ELC slide but thats not really important, fair trade tbh
Eli liked this.
Sep 20 at 12:09
#5
Thread Starter
Who adds what?
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,591
Likes: 1,639
Edited Sep 20 at 12:26
Quoting: Sleeping0ut1992
Caps don't need Hyman


True. At best Hyman would challenge Hagelin for 3L, and make Hags a nearly $3M 4th liner. At worst Hyman would rotate with Boyd, Hathaway, and Leipsic for a 4W spot, and be a a $2.25M fourth liner.

Gudas lighten's Carlson's shutdown and PK minutes so Carlson can score more points and get the power play back to the top of the league, and that's 100 times more valuable to Washington than one more good checking wing in a summer when they already added three.

But we haven't heard what Toronto's adding, yet. Is there a price at which Washington trades Gudas for prospects? Maybe. Is there a price at which they also take Hyman's contract back? Yeah. Especially if they can flip Hyman out West for more prospects/busts. Would you trade Gudas for Hyman after adding Hagelin, Panik, and Hathaway who are each basically Hyman? Heck no. But Gudas and a 3rd for Liljegren, Bracco, and an out-of-shape Jake Virtanen (that you get for Hyman)? That's not really an all-in move, but how do you pass it up?

Leafs fans, please respond similarly to my Oshie for Nylander example, with what would make it work, but bear in mind that Oshie got 27 more points than Nylander last year (54 to 27), that Oshie was on pace for 30 goals if he hadn't missed a dozen games, and that his contract declines with age, ending up, if not great, at least easy enough to trade to a rebuilding club saving money below the floor.

Assuming Oshie's 3M signing bonus has already been paid this summer, he's only owed 27.5M over the next six years, for an actual annual payment of 4.6M, and falling. Cap hit at 5.75 could be something or nothing, depending on the next tv contract, international markets, and whether Oshie stays healthy or not. https://www.capfriendly.com/players/tj-oshie

I guess the value depends on how sure Toronto is that Nylander can get back from the doghouse. If that doesn't look good, he's still got old friends in Washington.
Sep 20 at 12:16
#6
Thread Starter
Who adds what?
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,591
Likes: 1,639
Quoting: Rayquaza649
id replace fehervary with lewington so we could lets fehervary's ELC slide but thats not really important, fair trade tbh


Good call. Also opens up almost 100k in cap space, and comes closer to replacing Gudas' style of play and his right shot in the lineup, if not necessarily his skill and experience.

Ordinarily it'd be obvious to let the younger guys develop in the AHL, but with so many good LHD prospects, I mean, maybe bringing one up to practice with the Caps is the better learning opportunity?

Hershey still has:

Alexeyev-Johansen
Nardella-Lewington
Geisser-Williams
Bindulis

...plus whatever UFA veterans they add at the last minute.

Could be an interesting battle in camp, at least.
Rayquaza649 liked this.
Sep 20 at 12:33
#7
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,575
Likes: 3,152
I am surprised this trade offer didn't trigger any Leaf fans.
Eli liked this.
Sep 20 at 12:36
#8
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 211
Likes: 56
Isn't this a swing of over 1 million dollars in cap space in favour of Washington? Don't think Toronto is in any position to take on additional cap.
Sep 20 at 12:38
#9
Jack
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,067
Likes: 648
Quoting: Eli
True. At best Hyman would challenge Hagelin for 3L, and make Hags a nearly $3M 4th liner. At worst Hyman would rotate with Boyd, Hathaway, and Leipsic for a 4W spot, and be a a $2.25M fourth liner.

Gudas lighten's Carlson's shutdown and PK minutes so Carlson can score more points and get the power play back to the top of the league, and that's 100 times more valuable to Washington than one more good checking wing in a summer when they already added three.

But we haven't heard what Toronto's adding, yet. Is there a price at which Washington trades Gudas for prospects? Maybe. Is there a price at which they also take Hyman's contract back? Yeah. Especially if they can flip Hyman out West for more prospects/busts. Would you trade Gudas for Hyman after adding Hagelin, Panik, and Hathaway who are each basically Hyman? Heck no. But Gudas and a 3rd for Liljegren, Bracco, and an out-of-shape Jake Virtanen (that you get for Hyman)? That's not really an all-in move, but how do you pass it up?

Jack feel free to respond similarly to my Oshie for Nylander example, but bear in mind that Oshie got 20 more points than Nylander last year, that he was on pace for 30 goals if he hadn't missed a dozen games, and that his contract declines with age, ending up, if not great, at least easy enough to trade to a rebuilding club saving money below the floor.


virtanen is more of a transition player. he is very good at getting the puck in the defensive zone and can carry it into the offensive zone. he doesnt have the skill to do mush of anything when he gets the puck in the oz but he is amazing at getting the puck there. Hyman doesnt have all the skill but he is good defensively, a great pk'er and his greatest strength is puck retrieval. he is one of the better players in the league at going into the corners and getting the puck for his line mates. thats why he does so well with matthews and nylander or marner and JT. he would do well with Ovi and backstrom or kuzi. he has some finishing talent but he shouldnt be the best player on his line, hes a great complimentary piece and for his price he does his job very well. hes pretty much a wilson lite without the beating people up part.

Nylander is probably going to score around 70 points this season. he had 61 in his first two. he had a bad last season but will bounce back, he was unlucky and missing training camp+ half the season didnt help him at all. just a small fact but after january first he was top 5 in league scoring but im sure he will bounce back. I do lie oshie but he is pretty much an older nylander at this point. im open to trading bracco but bracco, lilly and hyman for gudas is to much. lilly projects to be a top 4 defenseman. bracco isnt great at even strength but he is fantastic on the PP. with nylander and marner ahead of him he wont get a chance but he is a fantastic powerplay QB but he wont get much of a chance to play at all.
Eli liked this.
Sep 20 at 12:47
#10
Thread Starter
Who adds what?
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,591
Likes: 1,639
Quoting: LoganOllivier
I am surprised this trade offer didn't trigger any Leaf fans.


I mean, Oshie's way older, but he got twice as many points as Nylander last year, in a similar number of games, he's gotten Selke votes, and his actual remaining salary is cheaper. Plus he kills penalties and he got more hits last year than Nylander has in his career. Gudas fixes the defense. If Babcock isn't done hating Nylander and misusing him, then what else do you really need?
Sep 20 at 12:51
#11
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,575
Likes: 3,152
Quoting: Eli
I mean, Oshie's way older, but he got twice as many points as Nylander last year, in a similar number of games, he's gotten Selke votes, and his actual remaining salary is cheaper. Plus he kills penalties and he got more hits last year than Nylander has in his career. Gudas fixes the defense. If Babcock isn't done hating Nylander and misusing him, then what else do you really need?


There are no rational arguments to make this make sense. Nylander had a down year and it was an outlier. Everyone that trades for him hopes that means he's cheap. He isn't and isn't going anywhere. He's a legit top flight player. Oshie is old and will be a terrible contract very soon. Gudas is nothing. He doesn't fix anything, he's a great bottom pair stay at home guy and can move up to the 2nd pair in a pinch but he isn't anything special. He's Adam Larsson, just an okay player that shoots RH so people think he's worth 8x what he is.

Nope to all of it. Nylander is going to be dominant this season with Matthews.
Sep 20 at 12:56
#12
Thread Starter
Who adds what?
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,591
Likes: 1,639
Quoting: gmurrayt
Isn't this a swing of over 1 million dollars in cap space in favour of Washington? Don't think Toronto is in any position to take on additional cap.


It puts them 1.8 over with the 23 guys I think they'd use. But then I shipped Muzzin to WPG for a 2nd, and they're way under. You could also obviously trade Hyman for a prospect and get there. This is just what I came up with, as a Caps fan:

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1439612
gmurrayt liked this.
Sep 20 at 1:16
#13
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 197
Likes: 23
No, NO, HELL NO! For the Caps. Oshie is a heart and soul glue team player with real grit. Gudas adds toughness on the backend and another enforcer to help Wilson. Also real underrated as a defender. Leafs lack backbone, with little toughness, lots of skill but soft. Nylander is another soft dangler. They are not beating the Bruins in the playoffs with this Charmin soft roster. They traded away their toughest players to Ottawa and Colorado. I wouldn't make this trade even if the Leafs sent back a 2nd instead of giving one. Toronto reminds me of earlier Caps teams that could score at will in the regular season but got run out by tougher teams at playoff time.
Eli liked this.
Sep 20 at 5:37
#14
Thread Starter
Who adds what?
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,591
Likes: 1,639
Quoting: Jack_
virtanen is more of a transition player. he is very good at getting the puck in the defensive zone and can carry it into the offensive zone. he doesnt have the skill to do mush of anything when he gets the puck in the oz but he is amazing at getting the puck there. Hyman doesnt have all the skill but he is good defensively, a great pk'er and his greatest strength is puck retrieval. he is one of the better players in the league at going into the corners and getting the puck for his line mates. thats why he does so well with matthews and nylander or marner and JT. he would do well with Ovi and backstrom or kuzi. he has some finishing talent but he shouldnt be the best player on his line, hes a great complimentary piece and for his price he does his job very well. hes pretty much a wilson lite without the beating people up part.

Nylander is probably going to score around 70 points this season. he had 61 in his first two. he had a bad last season but will bounce back, he was unlucky and missing training camp+ half the season didnt help him at all. just a small fact but after january first he was top 5 in league scoring but im sure he will bounce back. I do lie oshie but he is pretty much an older nylander at this point. im open to trading bracco but bracco, lilly and hyman for gudas is to much. lilly projects to be a top 4 defenseman. bracco isnt great at even strength but he is fantastic on the PP. with nylander and marner ahead of him he wont get a chance but he is a fantastic powerplay QB but he wont get much of a chance to play at all.


Quoting: KVS1
No, NO, HELL NO! For the Caps. Oshie is a heart and soul glue team player with real grit. Gudas adds toughness on the backend and another enforcer to help Wilson. Also real underrated as a defender. Leafs lack backbone, with little toughness, lots of skill but soft. Nylander is another soft dangler. They are not beating the Bruins in the playoffs with this Charmin soft roster. They traded away their toughest players to Ottawa and Colorado. I wouldn't make this trade even if the Leafs sent back a 2nd instead of giving one. Toronto reminds me of earlier Caps teams that could score at will in the regular season but got run out by tougher teams at playoff time.


It seems like we all agree that hits and takeaways add defensive value and could explain why Oshie has gotten two first-place votes for the Selke trophy. Last year's stats:
Name, Hits, Takeaways
Oshie, 133, 46
Hyman, 104, 30
Nylander, 16, 28
Wilson, 200, 43
Gudas, 255, 23

I agree that adding non-Wilson tough guys is important to the lineup, so Wilson can focus on the puck. I kept Hathaway, and @Rayquaza649 suggested bringing up Lewington. I definitely value Gudas and Oshie based on defensive effectiveness, but it's also worth noting that on the Leafs side, Gudas replaced a defenseman who was on pace for four points last year in Chicago, so Nylander would have to jump to 70 points next year for Washington to immediately end up ahead of this trade, offensively. I think it'll help Washington a bunch in three and four years, but after that Nylander goes UFA, so who knows?
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Remove Option
Submit Poll