Forums/Armchair-GM

Whats The Hype With This Team For

Created by: ForsbergForVezina
Initial Creation Date: Sep 28, 2019
Published: Sep 28 at 4:32 pm
Team: 2019-20 Colorado Avalanche
Team Explanation
Been waiting awhile to say this...

This team is really solid, but all offseason I've heard people hype them up like they're actually Cup contenders.

I'm not totally impressed with Makar, Burakovsky has never taken the next step in his development and Grubauer had a subpar season in 18-19 outside of the March and the playoffs. Kadri, Donskoi and Rosen are good additions, but don't make up for the losses of Soderberg, Kerfoot and especially Barrie. If Mikko Rantanen misses any significant period of time, that top line is no longer so intimidating, hurting the depth that this team has worked so hard to create. Furthermore, the goaltending depth beyond Grubauer is unimpressive; Francouz might end up being a good backup, but if Grubauer is injured or can't hold down the fort, I have no idea who they're going to turn to.

Realistically, I think Grubauer is good enough, Rantanen signs well before December 1st and Colorado sneaks into a wild card spot. But a full-on contender? I really just don't see it. Any thoughts? I want to hear some other opinions or flesh out mine a bit more.
Buyouts
  • Brooks Orpik: $1,500,000
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Tyson Barrie: $2,750,000 (50%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2020
COL
TOR
COL
COL
FLA
COL
2021
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
2022
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$65,884,761$0$3,532,500$15,615,239
Left WingCenterRight Wing
COL
Landeskog, Gabriel
$5,571,429
LW
NTC
UFA - 2
COL
MacKinnon, Nathan
$6,300,000
C, RW
UFA - 4
COL
Donskoi, Joonas
$3,900,000
RW
UFA - 4
COL
Burakovsky, André
$3,250,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
COL
Kadri, Nazem
$4,500,000
C
NTC
UFA - 3
COL
Compher, J.T.
$3,500,000
RW, C
UFA - 4
COL
Calvert, Matt
$2,850,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
COL
Wilson, Colin
$2,600,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
COL
Nieto, Matt
$1,975,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
COL
Jost, Tyson
$885,833
C, LW, RW
RFA - 1
COL
Bellemare, Pierre-Édouard
$1,800,000
LW, C
UFA - 2
COL
Kamenev, Vladislav
$750,000
C
RFA - 1
COL
Nichushkin, Valeri
$850,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
COL
Cole, Ian
$4,250,000
LD
UFA - 2
COL
Johnson, Erik
$6,000,000
RD
NMC NTC
UFA - 4
COL
Grubauer, Philipp
$3,333,333
G
UFA - 2
COL
Zadorov, Nikita
$3,200,000
LD
RFA - 1
COL
Makar, Cale
$880,833
RD
RFA - 2
COL
Francouz, Pavel
$950,000
G
UFA - 1
COL
Barberio, Mark
$1,450,000
LD
UFA - 1
COL
Connauton, Kevin
$1,375,000
LD
UFA - 1
COL
Graves, Ryan
$735,000
LD
RFA - 1
COL
Girard, Samuel
$728,333
LD
UFA - 1

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Sep 28 at 4:37
#1
john_michael
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 479
Likes: 191
Well, I have to disagree here. I think the hype around the Avs is that they are a young team and their Captain is lock for many years at a cheap contract. So there is reasons to believe this team has a 4-5 years window in which they can make it to the cup. I was surprised to see Byram back to WHL, but when he will be in the NHL, likely next year, this team has hands down the best d-core in the league. Makar, Girard, Byram and Timmins, that is hell good. Their first line is scary, and Kadri will be a very good 2C. Now, I think there could be improvement on the bottom 6 and in the net. But they will be a powerhouse for many years, thanks to Sakic's wise management.
Sep 28 at 4:38
#2
Sam
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,261
Likes: 1,178
Them and the Stars don’t scare me at all. I’d honestly be relatively surprised if the Preds or Blues don’t win the central.
Sep 28 at 4:47
#3
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 34
Likes: 5
I agree with you and I think they will be the biggest disappointment of the season. I still don't see a good 2nd scoring line, but what I see is lack of depth on the blue line, given that they moved out their top pairing D. The goaltending is questionable, too.
ForsbergForVezina liked this.
Sep 28 at 4:48
#4
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,712
Likes: 490
Completely agree, they don't have a star d man or G, Mack and landeskog are good, rantanen is quite overrated, Byram was also overrated, I wasn't surprised at all to see him not make the team (I think) I do like Makar though, but he'd better be ready for a full 82 game season, having never played more than like 40-50 at a high level (last year)
ForsbergForVezina liked this.
Sep 28 at 4:48
#5
Leafs
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 667
Likes: 172
I see what you're saying to a degree. I still think they are a lock for the playoffs and will probably win a round, but they are being a bit overhyped FOR TODAY. The defence for next year isn't looking promising: the fact that the Avs are relying on a rookie who hasn't played 10 games yet to be their top defenseman is concerning, and outside of girard the rest of the defence is decent at best. Outside of Kadri and the top line, the rest of the forward groups doesn't scare me at all, and the entire second line hinges on whether nazem can return to his 30g/60pt self. That being said, the d core has a few years to the develop, which gives the Avs time to draft good wing prospects/bring in big forward FAs to round out the offence, and byram-makar-girard-timmins will be one the best d cores for years to come. They'll be good, but this year isn't their year In my opinion
Sep 28 at 4:49
#6
Leafs
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 667
Likes: 172
Quoting: leafs101
I see what you're saying to a degree. I still think they are a lock for the playoffs and will probably win a round, but they are being a bit overhyped FOR TODAY. The defence for next year isn't looking promising: the fact that the Avs are relying on a rookie who hasn't played 10 games yet to be their top defenseman is concerning, and outside of girard the rest of the defence is decent at best. Outside of Kadri and the top line, the rest of the forward groups doesn't scare me at all, and the entire second line hinges on whether nazem can return to his 30g/60pt self. That being said, the d core has a few years to the develop, which gives the Avs time to draft good wing prospects/bring in big forward FAs to round out the offence, and byram-makar-girard-timmins will be one the best d cores for years to come. They'll be good, but this year isn't their year In my opinion

and goaltending isn't fully stable either
Sep 28 at 4:50
#7
Thread Starter
Hawks and Isles Fan
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,378
Likes: 455
Quoting: john_michael
Well, I have to disagree here. I think the hype around the Avs is that they are a young team and their Captain is lock for many years at a cheap contract. So there is reasons to believe this team has a 4-5 years window in which they can make it to the cup. I was surprised to see Byram back to WHL, but when he will be in the NHL, likely next year, this team has hands down the best d-core in the league. Makar, Girard, Byram and Timmins, that is hell good. Their first line is scary, and Kadri will be a very good 2C. Now, I think there could be improvement on the bottom 6 and in the net. But they will be a powerhouse for many years, thanks to Sakic's wise management.


I agree that their young d-core will be good, but it's going to take at least 2 to 3 years to integrate all of those guys for them to develop. And this year, Nashville has gotten better, Chicago has gotten better, St. Louis has made a nice add in Justin Faulk and Dallas is still looking promising. For at least this year and maybe next year, I don't know if I put the Avs ahead of any of them. This team won 38 games last season and didn't make any improvements over the offseason that also didn't make them weaker somewhere else (idk if that makes sense). Hard for me to get behind them
Sep 28 at 4:54
#8
Thread Starter
Hawks and Isles Fan
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,378
Likes: 455
Quoting: draftletic
I agree with you and I think they will be the biggest disappointment of the season. I still don't see a good 2nd scoring line, but what I see is lack of depth on the blue line, given that they moved out their top pairing D. The goaltending is questionable, too.


I just don't know how you trade your all-star caliber top defenseman and not have one chomping at the bit to take his place (and it isn't Makar yet). A real 2C was a need, but then they also move other good depth players in Kerfoot and Soderberg? Some of the things they did this offseason were honestly mind-boggling.
Sep 28 at 4:56
#9
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,404
Likes: 1,597
you haven't been impressed with Makar but he had 6 points in 10 playoffs games while playing top pairing minutes and excelling while doing so.....ok buddy. Thats just some serious hate
MisstheWhalers liked this.
Sep 28 at 4:57
#10
MisstheWhalers
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 5,207
Likes: 1,580
I do question if they have the goaltending to be a true contender just yet but other then between the pipes they're a pretty solid and well balanced team with a pretty decent prospect pool.

I think for them to be successful though this season they should really break up that top line and spread the talent through the top 6 and bit, put either one of Landeskog or Rantanen with Kadri to get some secondary scoring going. I get that's an amazing trio but if MacKinnon and one of Rantanen or Landeskog can't survive without the other well then I guess those guys aren't as good as we think they are, gotta think Mac and Landy should be able to produce with say Burakovsky.

Not an Avs fan but I do think they'll be cup winners at least once in the next 5 years.
Sep 28 at 4:57
#11
Thread Starter
Hawks and Isles Fan
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,378
Likes: 455
Quoting: AFOX10900
Completely agree, they don't have a star d man or G, Mack and landeskog are good, rantanen is quite overrated, Byram was also overrated, I wasn't surprised at all to see him not make the team (I think) I do like Makar though, but he'd better be ready for a full 82 game season, having never played more than like 40-50 at a high level (last year)


Byram will be a stud I think, I've heard nothing but good things for months. Really wanted the Hawks to take him. That said, he won't be in the NHL this year so his development is gonna take a little longer now that he's been sent down...
Sep 28 at 4:58
#12
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,404
Likes: 1,597
Quoting: STLBlues17
Them and the Stars don’t scare me at all. I’d honestly be relatively surprised if the Preds or Blues don’t win the central.


the only reason your team become relevant last year is bc Binnington came out of nowhere and they rode his back to the cup, without him its a completely different story. Remember how easily the pumpkin can turn back bc you have a bad Jake Allen and a question mark of Binnington in year 2 of being a full time starter
Sep 28 at 5:02
#13
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 252
Likes: 157
Quoting: coga16
you haven't been impressed with Makar but he had 6 points in 10 playoffs games while playing top pairing minutes and excelling while doing so.....ok buddy. Thats just some serious hate


That's 10 games, not a good enough sample size at all. Also, he showed great flashes offensively but had many holes in his game on defense (at least in the series against the Sharks), and played 16-18 mins, so not a top pair workload. You can be excited for his potential but it is completely fair to be apprehensive about him playing a top pair D man role already.
Sep 28 at 5:05
#14
Sam
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,261
Likes: 1,178
Quoting: coga16
the only reason your team become relevant last year is bc Binnington came out of nowhere and they rode his back to the cup, without him its a completely different story. Remember how easily the pumpkin can turn back bc you have a bad Jake Allen and a question mark of Binnington in year 2 of being a full time starter


If the Blues get league average goaltending, they’re a top-10 team in the league and if they get sensational goaltending like last year they can win the cup. There’s a reason why pretty much all of the prediction models have them winning the division. I don’t think they will because I can’t see them sustaining their second half dominance (pretty much every skater with a high-50’s xg share) but they’re pretty close to a lock for the playoffs.
Sep 28 at 5:05
#15
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,404
Likes: 1,597
Quoting: MJC13
That's 10 games, not a good enough sample size at all. Also, he showed great flashes offensively but had many holes in his game on defense (at least in the series against the Sharks), and played 16-18 mins, so not a top pair workload. You can be excited for his potential but it is completely fair to be apprehensive about him playing a top pair D man role already.


10 games in the playoffs...many holes in his game defesnively? Did you actually watch him during the series or just throwing out blanket statements bc he's young and you think that would apply? He was one of the avs best players and even when he did have miscues, he was able to recover easily.

Miscues during a shift or 2 are not defensive issues, the kid was pretty damn impressive, and if 95% of the hockey world and analysis are saying the same thing....dont fool yourself
Sep 28 at 5:07
#16
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,404
Likes: 1,597
Quoting: STLBlues17
If the Blues get league average goaltending, they’re a top-10 team in the league and if they get sensational goaltending like last year they can win the cup. There’s a reason why pretty much all of the prediction models have them winning the division. I don’t think they will because I can’t see them sustaining their second half dominance (pretty much every skater with a high-50’s xg share) but they’re pretty close to a lock for the playoffs.


thats my point...you are saying teams don't scare you but the reason why people are saying avs are over rated is the exact reason why the Blues could be fighting for the playoffs too....goaltending. Binningtons track record isn't there either, so if people are dismissing avs bc of Grubauer...they have to do the same for the Blues.
Sep 28 at 5:07
#17
Thread Starter
Hawks and Isles Fan
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,378
Likes: 455
Quoting: coga16
you haven't been impressed with Makar but he had 6 points in 10 playoffs games while playing top pairing minutes and excelling while doing so.....ok buddy. Thats just some serious hate


In 10 games, after going to the National Championship, probably riding a huge adrenaline rush. I just don't know that he'll be able to sustain that type of production or play over a full 82 game schedule. The only game in which he played over 20 minutes went to overtime. All I'm saying is that I'm not rushing to throw the Calder label on him like a lot of others have suggested.

Maybe I'll be totally wrong and they'll put up 110 points this season and Makar will be a top pairng defenseman at 21. I just really don't see it
Sep 28 at 5:09
#18
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,404
Likes: 1,597
Quoting: ForsbergForVezina
In 10 games, after going to the National Championship, probably riding a huge adrenaline rush. I just don't know that he'll be able to sustain that type of production or play over a full 82 game schedule. The only game in which he played over 20 minutes went to overtime. All I'm saying is that I'm not rushing to throw the Calder label on him like a lot of others have suggested.

Maybe I'll be totally wrong and they'll put up 110 points this season and Makar will be a top pairng defenseman at 21. I just really don't see it


adrenaline rush? Seriously? Thats your rebuttal..Dude process what you wrote there and see how silly that is of a statement.
Sep 28 at 5:10
#19
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 252
Likes: 157
Quoting: coga16
10 games in the playoffs...many holes in his game defesnively? Did you actually watch him during the series or just throwing out blanket statements bc he's young and you think that would apply? He was one of the avs best players and even when he did have miscues, he was able to recover easily.

Miscues during a shift or 2 are not defensive issues, the kid was pretty damn impressive, and if 95% of the hockey world and analysis are saying the same thing....dont fool yourself


Nope as I Sharks fan I watched the whole series, and he didn't look that much better than Barrie on defense, who himself isn't great either. Offensively he was good, but I can remember specifically a couple of points where he was skated around by Meier and a couple of other guys.
Sep 28 at 5:13
#20
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,404
Likes: 1,597
Quoting: MJC13
Nope as I Sharks fan I watched the whole series, and he didn't look that much better than Barrie on defense, who himself isn't great either. Offensively he was good, but I can remember specifically a couple of points where he was skated around by Meier and a couple of other guys.


then that shows you weren't watching at all or have no idea what kind of player he is, Makar is already much better than Barrie defensively and is physical as well, something barrie isn't at all.
Seriously dude, trying to throw out blanket statements in September...what 4months+ after the series like you have game tape on him.....swing and a miss on your part

If you are going to throw a statement out like that, look at how many times Burns and Karlsson had their ankles broken my mackinnon, so does that mean they are terrible defensively too bc they looked silly a few shifts?
Sep 28 at 5:14
#21
Sam
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,261
Likes: 1,178
Quoting: coga16
thats my point...you are saying teams don't scare you but the reason why people are saying avs are over rated is the exact reason why the Blues could be fighting for the playoffs too....goaltending. Binningtons track record isn't there either, so if people are dismissing avs bc of Grubauer...they have to do the same for the Blues.


Not really. Sure Binnington won’t be a .927 goaltender for 60 games, but the Blues were also a dominant possession team for 2/3 of the season and the Avs... were not.
Sep 28 at 5:17
#22
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,404
Likes: 1,597
Quoting: STLBlues17
Not really. Sure Binnington won’t be a .927 goaltender for 60 games, but the Blues were also a dominant possession team for 2/3 of the season and the Avs... were not.


and what did the Avs do this offseason getting Kadri, Bura, Donskoi etc? guys that are solid possession player. Soderberg, Andrighetto, and Gabe Bourque are no longer there who are all black holes. I think I would take those 3 upgrades while still having top end offensive talent.
Sep 28 at 5:19
#23
Thread Starter
Hawks and Isles Fan
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,378
Likes: 455
Quoting: coga16
adrenaline rush? Seriously? Thats your rebuttal..Dude process what you wrote there and see how silly that is of a statement.


First off, that wasn't the only point I made....

Second off, I'm serious lol, you can't tell me that that run he was on last spring couldn't have affected his play. Maybe that's not the right way to phrase it, but I imagine he came into the playoffs a little more fresh, considering he played half as many games as his teammates and opponents.
Sep 28 at 5:19
#24
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 252
Likes: 157
Quoting: coga16
then that shows you weren't watching at all or have no idea what kind of player he is, Makar is already much better than Barrie defensively and is physical as well, something barrie isn't at all.
Seriously dude, trying to throw out blanket statements in September...what 4months+ after the series like you have game tape on him.....swing and a miss on your part

If you are going to throw a statement out like that, look at how many times Burns and Karlsson had their ankles broken my mackinnon, so does that mean they are terrible defensively too bc they looked silly a few shifts?


I mean, they're not the best defensively (Burns and Karlsson) and most people who watch hockey can tell that, so I'm not sure if you were actually trying to make a point there. But I'm sure you've seen the future and know exactly how he's gonna play this year. It's fine that you're excited about him, but we're talking like he's somehow top 10 already, I mean seriously, you're gonna doubt that a 20 year old has defensive deficiencies? If he was a top offensive player and a sound defensive player already, like you claim he is, he would already be a top defenseman in this league, which he is not, considering he hasn't even played a full year yet.
Sep 28 at 5:22
#25
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,404
Likes: 1,597
Quoting: MJC13
I mean, they're not the best defensively (Burns and Karlsson) and most people who watch hockey can tell that, so I'm not sure if you were actually trying to make a point there. But I'm sure you've seen the future and know exactly how he's gonna play this year. It's fine that you're excited about him, but we're talking like he's somehow top 10 already, I mean seriously, you're gonna doubt that a 20 year old has defensive deficiencies? If he was a top offensive player and a sound defensive player already, like you claim he is, he would already be a top defenseman in this league, which he is not, considering he hasn't even played a full year yet.


My point is you are trying to throw a blanket statement on Makars ability bc you remember a shift or 2 that you thought Meier got the better of him....that doesn't mean a thing in determining how good a player can be defensively.
 
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