Forums/Armchair-GM

Kotkaniemi development discussion

Created by: Blazingbat11
Initial Creation Date: Oct 15, 2019
Published: Oct 16 at 12:41 am
Team: 2019-20 Montreal Canadiens
Team Explanation
First thing's first. There's nothing necessarily wrong with KK at the the moment, but I have a few concerns with how the Habs are currently managing him, and I'm wondering if others have the same worries. I'm not saying Julien is at fault here, because he's not, but Kotkaniemi is his 4th line centermen. We (the fans and the media) can insert KK on what looks like the Habs 3rd line. but 90% of the time, at the end of a game... Nate Thompson has more playing time than him. KK doesn't play that much on the PP (he's on the 2nd unit, but even then, he's only a complementary part of that 2nd unit and sometimes he's replaced by someone else like Byron anyway), he gets zero PK time, and plays limited minutes at 5 on 5. It's very sheltered for someone in his 2nd NHL season.

I get the argument that he's still only 19, and that's fine and understandable, but what's the Habs goal for KK? At 19, If the Habs want him to develop into their #1 centermen of the future, Kotkaniemi needs to play and experience all types of situations that a #1C is gonna do (have him lead the charge of the 2nd unit, give him some PK time, etc.). Currently he isn't getting that, and realistically I don't see Julien changing his role on the team that much this year. After seeing Mike Babcock's interview about why Rasmus Sandin was sent down to the Marlies, I think this is a philosophy that the Habs should apply with KK specifically. I think Babcock is an overrated coach personally, but he's right in saying that the role and minutes Sandin was currently getting did not reflect what they want him to develop into. So they sent him back to the AHL where he can play the kind of role and minutes they eventually want him doing with the Leafs in the future.

Julien's goal is to win hockey games. but I'm getting more of a feeling that this goal just no longer runs parallel with developing Kotkaniemi, which is fine! And I think everyone can agree that KK is an NHL player RIGHT NOW, the skillset is obviously there, just the playing time for him isn't available with the Habs currently. So if, and only if, the Habs keep playing playing KK the way they currently are. He should be the one sent down to Laval, play all the minutes imaginable, boost his confidence, and if ever there are injuries to Danault or Domi, call him back up.
To a lesser degree this can all apply to Suzuki as well. but Julien seems to prefer Zukes over KK anyway, and organizationally I would prioritize KK's development over Suzuki's.

Insert someone like Weal as the 3rd line C, he's more suited for that role anyway.

Let me know what you all think!
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22$81,500,000$74,140,475$0$557,500$7,359,525
Left WingCenterRight Wing
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Tatar, Tomas
$4,800,000
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$3,083,333
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Oct 16 at 1:00
#1
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,204
Likes: 571
The real problem is MTL need to tank another year, but if we send down Kotkaniemi, Mete ( for 40ish game of waiver exempt ), Suzuki and Fleury, MTL fans and media will go crazy. MTL NEED to tank another year, but if they do, fans and media will said MTL CAN'T missed the playoffs again ... So they will all say fire Bergevin and Julien. So right now, they are trying to win games, but Nate Thompson is way better than Kotkaniemi and Suzuki on the ice lets be honest. So Claude Julien is trying to win games, and Suzuki isnt helping, Kotkaniemi different story, he's still good. Thats my opinion, bring up Peca Alzner Weise and send the kids to Laval. Poehling Suzuki Hudon Evans Fleury Brook Mete Juulsen Kotkaniemi AHL. Next year, bring up Poehling Mete Romanov Caufield Juulsen Kotkaniemi Evans and leave Fleury Suzuki Brook Vejdemo Leskinen Primeau more time in the AHL and you can add Ylonen
Oct 16 at 1:06
#2
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 975
Likes: 406
Agree with almost everything you said. At this point I don't even know what they're doing with him, it looks like they're scared of trying something new. I don't think Laval is the best option though. Maybe try him with someone else than Armia and on the PK.
Oct 16 at 2:43
#3
Thread Starter
Molson beer is meh
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,501
Likes: 953
Quoting: GMs
The real problem is MTL need to tank another year, but if we send down Kotkaniemi, Mete ( for 40ish game of waiver exempt ), Suzuki and Fleury, MTL fans and media will go crazy. MTL NEED to tank another year, but if they do, fans and media will said MTL CAN'T missed the playoffs again ... So they will all say fire Bergevin and Julien. So right now, they are trying to win games, but Nate Thompson is way better than Kotkaniemi and Suzuki on the ice lets be honest. So Claude Julien is trying to win games, and Suzuki isnt helping, Kotkaniemi different story, he's still good. Thats my opinion, bring up Peca Alzner Weise and send the kids to Laval. Poehling Suzuki Hudon Evans Fleury Brook Mete Juulsen Kotkaniemi AHL. Next year, bring up Poehling Mete Romanov Caufield Juulsen Kotkaniemi Evans and leave Fleury Suzuki Brook Vejdemo Leskinen Primeau more time in the AHL and you can add Ylonen


Never gonna happen. MTL are gonna claw and fight their way all season, for a slight chance at a post season birth. Is it gonna happen?,..maybe, maybe not. But that's the expectation for the team. I know it, you know it, everyone knows it.

and Thompson has been good/great at grinding it out, which is his role and exactly what Julien wants from him. perfect fit. no wonder he looks good. With KK, Julien basically uses him as relief to the top 2 lines. If Julien wants offense, he's either using the Danault or Domi line, only once those two lines are gassed out does he put KK on the ice (even then he double shifts Danault sometimes over putting KK), and anytime Julien wants to play a defensive game, it's either Danault or Thompson's line.. never ever KK's, which is kind of sad because I don't consider KK defensively irresponsible, he's actually pretty solid for a 19 year old.
GMs liked this.
Oct 16 at 2:49
#4
Thread Starter
Molson beer is meh
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,501
Likes: 953
Quoting: SevenLeg
Agree with almost everything you said. At this point I don't even know what they're doing with him, it looks like they're scared of trying something new. I don't think Laval is the best option though. Maybe try him with someone else than Armia and on the PK.


Well realistically I don't see Bergevin sending KK to Laval anyways. Too stubborn, and I bet he's WAY too scared of the media and fan backlash that would happen if he would. Even if it might be what's best for KK.

I agree that maybe putting KK away from Armia might be for the better. Armia has been playing pretty good lately, but he is kind of a "puck hog" if you know what I mean. I wouldn't mind seeing KK with Byron and someone like Weal or even Suzuki.
Oct 16 at 7:42
#5
habs_fan
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,455
Likes: 488
Quoting: GMs
The real problem is MTL need to tank another year, but if we send down Kotkaniemi, Mete ( for 40ish game of waiver exempt ), Suzuki and Fleury, MTL fans and media will go crazy. MTL NEED to tank another year, but if they do, fans and media will said MTL CAN'T missed the playoffs again ... So they will all say fire Bergevin and Julien. So right now, they are trying to win games, but Nate Thompson is way better than Kotkaniemi and Suzuki on the ice lets be honest. So Claude Julien is trying to win games, and Suzuki isnt helping, Kotkaniemi different story, he's still good. Thats my opinion, bring up Peca Alzner Weise and send the kids to Laval. Poehling Suzuki Hudon Evans Fleury Brook Mete Juulsen Kotkaniemi AHL. Next year, bring up Poehling Mete Romanov Caufield Juulsen Kotkaniemi Evans and leave Fleury Suzuki Brook Vejdemo Leskinen Primeau more time in the AHL and you can add Ylonen


ik what u mean watching them win last season was hard but we got caufield so whatever
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Oct 16 at 8:59
#6
DomCholette
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,749
Likes: 425
The biggest problem is that Julien never trust young player... think of Seguin, Thornton... They even trade those two franchise player!
The best for him would be to jump on the second line and play with top 6 player like Drouin & Domi... He need the Domi energy same as Danault need Gally energy to keep their feet moving.
And then live or die... because the biggest problem is the D... having 4 Mid-Bottom LHD filling 40 good minutes a game, this is where we lose the game right now.
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Oct 16 at 9:18
#7
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 28,555
Likes: 6,565
" I think Babcock is an overrated coach personally". Many Leaf fans don't think Babcock should be an NHL coach. Part of Sandin situation was he probably isn't better than the players that will replace him, so it's not like Sandin's demotion will hurt the Leafs. You're right, playing 22 minutes with the Marlies for a 19 year old will be best for Sandin. He still could be recalled in case of injuries,
KK situation is a little different since he already played a season in the NHL. Is sending to him to the AHL beneficial? Not that a disagree with you....but it's just a different situation.
Oct 16 at 12:26
#8
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 196
Likes: 107
I'd give a relatively simple answer to the many arguments, questions and answers you have.

Julien shouldn't prefer Suzuki to KK simply because KK is playing better than Suzuki. I like the intelligence of Suzuki, but he lacks a quick execution for now. He wouldn't bad on a 4th line, but I'd prefer Cousins or an other Laval player fit for this kind of role.

If Suzuki is sent to Laval, KK should get most of his time, including on PP. I don't mind if he centers a 3rd line, but I'm concerned just like you about his ice time.
Blazingbat11, GMs and DomCholette liked this.
 
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