Forums/Armchair-GM

Were not getting Hall or Pietrangelo

Created by: NR1203
Initial Creation Date: Oct 16, 2019
Published: Oct 16 at 5:14 pm
Team: 2020-21 Toronto Maple Leafs
Team Explanation
And anyone who thinks we are is delusional.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Dermott, Travis4$3,000,000
Mikheyev, Ilya2$2,000,000
Gauthier, Frédérik1$875,000
Bracco, Jeremy2$900,000
Brooks, Adam1$800,000
Engvall, Pierre2$850,000
Kaskisuo, Kasimir3$925,000
Timashov, Dmytro2$875,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Muzzin, Jake4$5,250,000
DeMelo, Dylan2$1,875,000
CREATEDYEARSCAP HIT
D UFA, Extra1$800,000
Trades
TOR
  1. 2020 2nd round pick (WSH)
DET
  1. Hyman, Zach
Additional Details:
Red Wings try and recapture the Hyman-Larkin chemistry from their college days.
Buyouts
  • Mikhail Grabovski: $0
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2020
TOR
WSH
CBJ
TOR
VGK
TOR
CAR
COL
EDM
SJS
STL
WPG
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
23$82,500,000$82,321,866$0$400,000$178,134
Left WingCenterRight Wing
TOR
Moore, Trevor
$775,000
RW, LW
RFA - 1
TOR
Tavares, John
$11,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 5
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
$10,893,000
RW
UFA - 5
TOR
Johnsson, Andreas
$3,400,000
LW
UFA - 3
TOR
Matthews, Auston
$11,634,000
C
UFA - 4
TOR
Nylander, William
$6,962,366
RW, C
UFA - 4
TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
$2,000,000
LW, RW
RFA
TOR
Kerfoot, Alexander
$3,500,000
C, LW
UFA - 3
TOR
Kapanen, Kasperi
$3,200,000
RW
RFA - 2
TOR
Timashov, Dmytro
$875,000
LW
RFA
TOR
Gauthier, Frédérik
$875,000
C
RFA
TOR
Engvall, Pierre
$850,000
LW, RW
RFA
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
$5,000,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Liljegren, Timothy
$863,333
RD
RFA - 2
TOR
Andersen, Frederik
$5,000,000
G
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Muzzin, Jake
$5,250,000
LD
UFA
TOR
Dermott, Travis
$3,000,000
LD
RFA
TOR
Woll, Joseph
$800,000
G
RFA - 1
TOR
Sandin, Rasmus
$894,167
LD
RFA - 2
DeMelo, Dylan
$1,875,000
RD
UFA
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
TOR
Petan, Nicolas
$775,000
LW, RW, C
RFA - 1
TOR
Bracco, Jeremy
$900,000
RW
RFA
D UFA, Extra
$800,000

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Oct 16 at 5:18
#1
Habs
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 665
Likes: 88
Trevor Moore on the top line? Never gonna happen
Oct 16 at 5:24
#2
Leafs
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 688
Likes: 174
Quoting: Goldninja0
Trevor Moore on the top line? Never gonna happen


you really don't think at some point in the next two years he won't become good enough to fill that Hyman role? he did it pretty damn well last night...
NR1203 and Sign_em_up000000 liked this.
Oct 16 at 5:25
#3
Habs
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 665
Likes: 88
Quoting: leafs101
you really don't think at some point in the next two years he won't become good enough to fill that Hyman role? he did it pretty damn well last night...


ok
Oct 16 at 5:27
#4
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 948
Likes: 257
Quoting: Goldninja0
Trevor Moore on the top line? Never gonna happen


He did it last night. And he did it really well. It's not just about the most skilled players, but about chemistry and style of play.
Oct 16 at 5:27
#5
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 948
Likes: 257
Quoting: leafs101
you really don't think at some point in the next two years he won't become good enough to fill that Hyman role? he did it pretty damn well last night...


I personally think he's already good enough.
palhal and Sign_em_up000000 liked this.
Oct 16 at 5:34
#6
The evil stats guy
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,004
Likes: 1,664
"We're not getting [JT] And anyone who thinks we are is delusional."
Oct 16 at 5:41
#7
Leafs
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 688
Likes: 174
Quoting: NR1203
I personally think he's already good enough.


I don't know if I'm fully convinced for right now only because its such a small sample size but if he can consistently play well all year and step up when he gets these opportunities due to injuries he might give management enough confidence to trade Hyman and let Moore fill his role for cheaper
Oct 16 at 5:42
#8
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 28,187
Likes: 6,361
Like you opening statement about Hall and Pietrangelo. Of course it's possible if the Leaf get rid of lots of cap in trades, but how does that really improve the team?

The top three LWers....Hyman makes four seems to all interchangeable to play on the top two lines or the bottom two lines.
Oct 16 at 5:43
#9
Leafs
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 688
Likes: 174
Quoting: Random2152
"We're not getting [JT] And anyone who thinks we are is delusional."

I mean it's probably not gonna happen but we can hope for and make up these scenarios... but anything is possible
Oct 16 at 5:43
#10
The evil stats guy
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,004
Likes: 1,664
Quoting: leafs101
I mean it's probably not gonna happen but we can hope for and make up these scenarios... but anything is possible


Oh absolutely. But to say we don't have a shot is absurd.
Oct 16 at 5:44
#11
#DisruptTheNight
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,850
Likes: 2,506
facts
NR1203 liked this.
Oct 16 at 5:53
#12
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 4,090
Likes: 1,064
Detroit isn't giving a 2nd for a LW coming off of ACL surgery. They need D which is the same thing Toronto needs considering the have 1 defenseman signed for next season and the rest are UFAs.
Oct 16 at 5:55
#13
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 4,090
Likes: 1,064
Quoting: palhal
Like you opening statement about Hall and Pietrangelo. Of course it's possible if the Leaf get rid of lots of cap in trades, but how does that really improve the team?

The top three LWers....Hyman makes four seems to all interchangeable to play on the top two lines or the bottom two lines.


I agree if you go out and spend on a free agent I think it would be a defenseman would be the smart choice.
NR1203 and Sign_em_up000000 liked this.
Oct 16 at 6:56
#14
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 948
Likes: 257
Quoting: Random2152
"We're not getting [JT] And anyone who thinks we are is delusional."


When JT was a free agent, we thought he wouldn't want to come. He did. It's a different situation now. Now, even if Pietrangelo wants to come here, there simply isn't enough cap space.
Oct 16 at 6:57
#15
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 948
Likes: 257
Quoting: aedoran
Detroit isn't giving a 2nd for a LW coming off of ACL surgery. They need D which is the same thing Toronto needs considering the have 1 defenseman signed for next season and the rest are UFAs.


He skated despite his ACL injury in the playoffs, and he's a 20 goal scorer who has chemistry (loads of it) with Larkin.
aedoran and Sign_em_up000000 liked this.
Oct 16 at 6:58
#16
The evil stats guy
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,004
Likes: 1,664
Quoting: NR1203
When JT was a free agent, we thought he wouldn't want to come. He did. It's a different situation now. Now, even if Pietrangelo wants to come here, there simply isn't enough cap space.


https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1447324
I did this with an extremely conservative cap. NHL is talking 84.5 WITHOUT NHLPA inflator (to kill escrow). I did it in 82.5.
Oct 16 at 7:03
#17
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 948
Likes: 257
Quoting: Random2152
https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1447324
I did this with an extremely conservative cap. NHL is talking 84.5 WITHOUT NHLPA inflator (to kill escrow). I did it in 82.5.


A) 20-man roster is a situation no team can be in.
B) Mikheyev isn't signed there, and he's definitely someone who should come back.
Oct 16 at 7:05
#18
The evil stats guy
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,004
Likes: 1,664
Quoting: NR1203
A) 20-man roster is a situation no team can be in.
B) Mikheyev isn't signed there, and he's definitely someone who should come back.


I know it is a 20 man roster. I did it with a cap that is far smaller than projected. That was kind of the point and you missed it.
Mik is like Hyman and Moore. I like Mik but if he asks for more than Hyman we can move him for some draft capital or prospects.
Oct 16 at 7:13
#19
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 948
Likes: 257
Quoting: Random2152
I know it is a 20 man roster. I did it with a cap that is far smaller than projected. That was kind of the point and you missed it.
Mik is like Hyman and Moore. I like Mik but if he asks for more than Hyman we can move him for some draft capital or prospects.


The cap won't go up that high, I think it was CJ a little while back who said the cap could increase very little or even stay the same next season, 84.5 is impossible in my opinion.
We're already losing Hyman, don't want to lose another top-9 forward.

In any case, if there was 9 million in space, I'd rather bring back Muzzin and sign Hamonic for that price, or sign Barrie for say 7 million and bring in Demelo or even Hainsey for that last 2 million. 2 solid players for the price of one good player, it's already a top heavy team so it's ok to lose a bit of star power (Pietrangelo) for a strong supporting cast. On top of that, Pietrangelo turns 30 in January and you don't want to commit another high salary to a player whose best years, considering the normal aging curve in the NHL, are probably behind him.
Oct 16 at 7:14
#20
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 4,090
Likes: 1,064
Quoting: NR1203
He skated despite his ACL injury in the playoffs, and he's a 20 goal scorer who has chemistry (loads of it) with Larkin.


Hyman is a very good player it would be nice to have him. With Helm, Neilson and Abdelkader on almost un-tradable contracts and taking time from prospects adding another forward with $5.3M cap hit isn't the right move IMO but the Wings don't consult with me before making trades.
Oct 16 at 7:15
#21
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 948
Likes: 257
Quoting: aedoran
Hyman is a very good player it would be nice to have him. With Helm, Neilson and Abdelkader on almost un-tradable contracts and taking time from prospects adding another forward with $5.3M cap hit isn't the right move IMO but the Wings don't consult with me before making trades.


Hyman doesn't have a 5.3 million cap hit..? He makes 2.25 for 1 more year after this, probably will command around 3 million for his next contract
Oct 16 at 7:26
#22
The evil stats guy
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,004
Likes: 1,664
Quoting: NR1203
The cap won't go up that high, I think it was CJ a little while back who said the cap could increase very little or even stay the same next season, 84.5 is impossible in my opinion.
We're already losing Hyman, don't want to lose another top-9 forward.

In any case, if there was 9 million in space, I'd rather bring back Muzzin and sign Hamonic for that price, or sign Barrie for say 7 million and bring in Demelo or even Hainsey for that last 2 million. 2 solid players for the price of one good player, it's already a top heavy team so it's ok to lose a bit of star power (Pietrangelo) for a strong supporting cast. On top of that, Pietrangelo turns 30 in January and you don't want to commit another high salary to a player whose best years, considering the normal aging curve in the NHL, are probably behind him.


Bettman literally said like 2 weeks ago that they were looking at a 84.5 cap. The lower numbers specified months ago are still double the increase that I had there.

We have another year of Hyman, and Moore can take over for him by then anyway. I'd like to keep Mik, but it is a luxury. If he kills it (is better than Hyman) sign him for 3 mil and move Hyman. It ultimately isn't a huge deal which one stays if you have to chose.

I intentionally signed Pietro for 5 years in my AGM, I wouldn't go any longer precisely due to that ageing curve, but remember, the cap is going to jump in 2 years time. He will be worth it for a MINIMUM of 3-4 years, and if he is only worth 6 Mil those last 1-2 it wont be a huge deal.

Also, Top heavy and cheap depth is the way to go. It has been an analytic theory for years that it is the most optimal usage of cap and Doobie is doing it. I think he will continue to do so.
Oct 16 at 8:07
#23
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 85
Likes: 9
Hello?? Whatever line Matthew's is on is the top line. Trade hyman.moore plays 3rd line lw. Mikeyev plays on 2nd line with tavares and marner
 
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