Forums/Armchair-GM

Reunite Kane and Breadman

Created by: ChiHawk
Initial Creation Date: Oct 18, 2019
Published: Oct 18 at 10:02 am
Team: 2019-20 Chicago Blackhawks
Team Explanation
and let the kids play
Trades
CHI
  1. Kakko, Kaapo
  2. Kreider, Chris
NYR
  1. Kane, Patrick
CHI
  1. Kapanen, Kasperi ($500,000 retained)
TOR
  1. Gustafsson, Erik
  2. Perlini, Brendan
CHI
  1. 2020 2nd round pick (EDM)
EDM
  1. Kreider, Chris
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2020
CHI
EDM
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
2021
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
MTL
2022
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$72,845,961$0$10,207,500$8,654,039
Left WingCenterRight Wing
CHI
Kubalik, Dominik
$925,000
LW
RFA - 1
CHI
Toews, Jonathan
$10,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 4
CHI
Saad, Brandon
$6,000,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
CHI
Nylander, Alexander
$863,333
RW, LW
RFA - 2
CHI
Dach, Kirby
$925,000
C
RFA - 3
NYR
Kakko, Kaapo
$925,000
RW
RFA - 3
CHI
DeBrincat, Alex
$778,333
LW, RW
RFA - 1
CHI
Strome, Dylan
$863,333
C
RFA - 1
TOR
Kapanen, Kasperi
$2,700,000
RW
RFA - 3
CHI
Caggiula, Drake
$1,500,000
LW, C, RW
RFA - 1
CHI
Kämpf, David
$1,000,000
C, RW
RFA - 2
CHI
Shaw, Andrew
$3,900,000
C, RW
UFA - 3
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
CHI
Keith, Duncan
$5,538,462
LD
NMC
UFA - 4
CHI
Murphy, Connor
$3,850,000
RD
UFA - 3
CHI
Crawford, Corey
$6,000,000
G
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
CHI
De Haan, Calvin
$4,550,000
LD
UFA - 3
CHI
Boqvist, Adam
$894,167
RD
RFA - 3
CHI
Lehner, Robin
$5,000,000
G
UFA - 1
CHI
Määttä, Olli
$4,083,333
LD
UFA - 3
CHI
Seabrook, Brent
$6,875,000
RD
NMC
UFA - 5
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
CHI
Smith, Zack
$3,250,000
LW, C
NTC
UFA - 2
CHI
Carpenter, Ryan
$1,000,000
RW, C
UFA - 3
CHI
Koekkoek, Slater
$925,000
LD
RFA - 1

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Oct 18 at 10:26
#1
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,557
Likes: 653
Rangers reject hard. Kane is making 10.5, and his on the downside of his career. For a rebuilding team to give up their 2nd OA pick from this past draft for someone on the other side of the hill is dumb management.

Toronto reject. That package may get you Kapanen's equipment.

Kreider is worth far more than just a 2nd round pick
Oct 18 at 10:41
#2
exo2769
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,926
Likes: 1,201
I don't think that NY trade is a good fit for the Rangers. They're just starting their rebuild and also just starting their big contracts with Panarin/Trouba. If they stay the course and get picks/prospects for Kreider they're probably better off. Also, not very good for the Hawks either. It's a full on rebuild because you're literally taking a current Hart contender away from a team. Kappo can't possibly be considered Kane's equal in 2019. Down the Road fine, that argument can be had, but what do you do with Toews, Keith, and Seabs if you trade away Kane?

I like Kapanen, but I don't think he's the difference we need to be contenders. TOR can keep him. I'd prefer to get picks/prospects with Gus @ the TDL.
Oct 18 at 10:58
#3
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,534
Likes: 729
Quoting: Caniac2000
Rangers reject hard. Kane is making 10.5, and his on the downside of his career. For a rebuilding team to give up their 2nd OA pick from this past draft for someone on the other side of the hill is dumb management.

Toronto reject. That package may get you Kapanen's equipment.

Kreider is worth far more than just a 2nd round pick


As a Leafs fan I'd be open if a reasonable extension on Gus was involved and no retention
Oct 18 at 11:18
#4
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,557
Likes: 653
Quoting: BCAPP
As a Leafs fan I'd be open if a reasonable extension on Gus was involved and no retention


Your funeral, but he shouldn't be worth Kapanen
Oct 18 at 11:39
#5
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 6,038
Likes: 1,246
Quoting: Caniac2000
Rangers reject hard. Kane is making 10.5, and his on the downside of his career. For a rebuilding team to give up their 2nd OA pick from this past draft for someone on the other side of the hill is dumb management.

Toronto reject. That package may get you Kapanen's equipment.

Kreider is worth far more than just a 2nd round pick


Kane is on the downside of his career? He just put up his best year last year and was a top 3 forward in the league last year and has 5 points in 4 games this year...please explain how that is downside.

Kap for a top line right handed D man that put up 60 points last year and a 23 year old former 1st round (12th OA). As confirmed in another AGM by Toronto fans and confirmed by one here that is a very fair trade.

Kreider is a 1 year rental and likely worth a 1st but was being conservative flipping him.
Oct 18 at 11:42
#6
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 6,038
Likes: 1,246
Quoting: exo2769
I don't think that NY trade is a good fit for the Rangers. They're just starting their rebuild and also just starting their big contracts with Panarin/Trouba. If they stay the course and get picks/prospects for Kreider they're probably better off. Also, not very good for the Hawks either. It's a full on rebuild because you're literally taking a current Hart contender away from a team. Kappo can't possibly be considered Kane's equal in 2019. Down the Road fine, that argument can be had, but what do you do with Toews, Keith, and Seabs if you trade away Kane?

I like Kapanen, but I don't think he's the difference we need to be contenders. TOR can keep him. I'd prefer to get picks/prospects with Gus @ the TDL.


KK will likely never be Kane...guys like Kane are generational talents as we know....very few players ever reach that lofty expectation. That said, Hawks may need to think about a total rebuild if they start the season in the wrong direction. I agree that New York is just beginning a rebuild and this is likely not a good fit unless they are exceeding expectations and challenging for a cup.

I think Kap would be a good fit with the Hawks as a 2nd or 3rd liner. He has a fair amount of speed and we can use more speed.
Oct 18 at 11:44
#7
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,964
Likes: 617
Quoting: Caniac2000
Rangers reject hard. Kane is making 10.5, and his on the downside of his career. For a rebuilding team to give up their 2nd OA pick from this past draft for someone on the other side of the hill is dumb management.

Toronto reject. That package may get you Kapanen's equipment.

Kreider is worth far more than just a 2nd round pick


Ide bet thats what kreider ends up going for. Kane just had 110 points last year? tell me where the downturn is please.
Oct 18 at 11:45
#8
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,557
Likes: 653
Quoting: ChiHawk
Kane is on the downside of his career? He just put up his best year last year and was a top 3 forward in the league last year and has 5 points in 4 games this year...please explain how that is downside.

Kap for a top line right handed D man that put up 60 points last year and a 23 year old former 1st round (12th OA). As confirmed in another AGM by Toronto fans and confirmed by one here that is a very fair trade.

Kreider is a 1 year rental and likely worth a 1st but was being conservative flipping him.


Kane is slowing down, he had a resurgent year in a year where everyone was scoring more. Kane wasn't a top 3 player last year, be real man. Top 5 maybe, but Sid McDavid and Kuch were all better. Kakko has the upside to get there, there is literally 0 reason or sense to move him. NYR aren't gunning for the cup now. They're aiming down the road.

Kap is a speedy middle 6er with 20-40 upside, for a defenceman who struggles in his own end, is on a 1 year deal and adds to Muzzin Barrie Dermott Ceci Harpur Schmaltz and a load of others who would need to be resigned? That makes very little sense for Toronto.

Kreider with an extension is worth a 1st and a B prospect...
Oct 18 at 11:46
#9
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,557
Likes: 653
Quoting: hanson493
Ide bet thats what kreider ends up going for. Kane just had 110 points last year? tell me where the downturn is please.


See where he's old? That's where
Oct 18 at 11:46
#10
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,964
Likes: 617
Quoting: ChiHawk
KK will likely never be Kane...guys like Kane are generational talents as we know....very few players ever reach that lofty expectation. That said, Hawks may need to think about a total rebuild if they start the season in the wrong direction. I agree that New York is just beginning a rebuild and this is likely not a good fit unless they are exceeding expectations and challenging for a cup.

I think Kap would be a good fit with the Hawks as a 2nd or 3rd liner. He has a fair amount of speed and we can use more speed.


I dont think trading kane is the way you do that.
ChiHawk liked this.
Oct 18 at 11:49
#11
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,964
Likes: 617
Quoting: Caniac2000
Kane is slowing down, he had a resurgent year in a year where everyone was scoring more. Kane wasn't a top 3 player last year, be real man. Top 5 maybe, but Sid McDavid and Kuch were all better. Kakko has the upside to get there, there is literally 0 reason or sense to move him. NYR aren't gunning for the cup now. They're aiming down the road.

Kap is a speedy middle 6er with 20-40 upside, for a defenceman who struggles in his own end, is on a 1 year deal and adds to Muzzin Barrie Dermott Ceci Harpur Schmaltz and a load of others who would need to be resigned? That makes very little sense for Toronto.

Kreider with an extension is worth a 1st and a B prospect...


WHAT? Sid was not better than kane last year. mcdavid and kuch sure but kuch had a MUCH better line compared to both mcdavid and kane. Also the difference between 3rd best and 4th best player ide be willing to listen to what your thoughts are there... "be real" holy smokes dude. Kreider is hitting free agency. He isnt being extended. how is 110 points slowing down?
ChiHawk liked this.
Oct 18 at 11:51
#12
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,964
Likes: 617
Quoting: Caniac2000
See where he's old? That's where


hes turning 31 next month. not seeing your point here. Kane could have another 8 years left of great production on him. Only thing that will hurt his career is injuries which he smartly avoids.
Oct 18 at 11:52
#13
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,557
Likes: 653
Quoting: hanson493
hes turning 31 next month. not seeing your point here. Kane could have another 8 years left of great production on him. Only thing that will hurt his career is injuries which he smartly avoids.


*Could*, Kakko is almost sure fire to have the next 12 years of his career at an elite level, why move him for Kane?
Oct 18 at 11:54
#14
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,964
Likes: 617
Quoting: Caniac2000
*Could*, Kakko is almost sure fire to have the next 12 years of his career at an elite level, why move him for Kane?


Kakko also *COULD* be a bust and not be nearly as elite as people expect.
ChiHawk and BCAPP liked this.
Oct 18 at 11:55
#15
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,964
Likes: 617
Quoting: Caniac2000
*Could*, Kakko is almost sure fire to have the next 12 years of his career at an elite level, why move him for Kane?


You move him for Kane because Kane is in the prime of his career, and can drive the 2nd line and add a signficant boost to that team. only thing keeping them from really doing this deal is cap space.
Oct 18 at 11:55
#16
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,557
Likes: 653
Quoting: hanson493
WHAT? Sid was not better than kane last year. mcdavid and kuch sure but kuch had a MUCH better line compared to both mcdavid and kane. Also the difference between 3rd best and 4th best player ide be willing to listen to what your thoughts are there... "be real" holy smokes dude. Kreider is hitting free agency. He isnt being extended. how is 110 points slowing down?


pOiNtS... there's more to hockey than just points. Sid was alround the best player in the league last year by some margin, his RAPM literally shames anyone else in the league, and McDavid was number 2 by almost the same margin. Kuch I'm only counting as number 3 because it might get you to shut up, but realistically last year Couturier was better, MacKinnon, Point all were. 110 points is nice production, but there's a lot more than that to this game. Defensively he was horrific (when I say horrific, I mean for his standards at an elite level, don't get that wrong) He's imo, not a top 10 player in the league anymore. He's slowing down way too much. Oh and 110 points is a lot easier with a 40 goal scorer on the other wing
Oct 18 at 11:56
#17
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,557
Likes: 653
Quoting: hanson493
You move him for Kane because Kane is in the prime of his career, and can drive the 2nd line and add a signficant boost to that team. only thing keeping them from really doing this deal is cap space.


LOL WHAT?
Oct 18 at 11:56
#18
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,557
Likes: 653
Quoting: hanson493
Kakko also *COULD* be a bust and not be nearly as elite as people expect.


Kakko is not gonna bust, coming out of the draft he was the most NHL ready guy in it
Oct 18 at 11:59
#19
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 6,038
Likes: 1,246
Quoting: Caniac2000
Kane is slowing down, he had a resurgent year in a year where everyone was scoring more. Kane wasn't a top 3 player last year, be real man. Top 5 maybe, but Sid McDavid and Kuch were all better. Kakko has the upside to get there, there is literally 0 reason or sense to move him. NYR aren't gunning for the cup now. They're aiming down the road.

Kap is a speedy middle 6er with 20-40 upside, for a defenceman who struggles in his own end, is on a 1 year deal and adds to Muzzin Barrie Dermott Ceci Harpur Schmaltz and a load of others who would need to be resigned? That makes very little sense for Toronto.

Kreider with an extension is worth a 1st and a B prospect...


Wrong...you're ignorant not to realize Kane is a top 3 forward. #3 in points, #5 in goals, #6 in assists. No other player in the league ranked collectively that high in all categories. For comparison, Kuch was #11 in goals, McDavid #10 in goals, Crosby #24 in goals and Crosby #7...but you think Crosby was better? LMAO

Sure KK has a lot of upside, but to think he's going to be as good as Kane is a fool's errand. KK or Hughes weren't nearly as hyped as Kane in his draft year. Very few players are, McDavid being another one.

Toronto's right side is hurting and offers very little offensive upside. Gus would definitely add to the type of game Toronto plays. Perlini has upside for sure, he's just not a fit for the Hawks after getting Nylander as another project.

No extension was included in the Kreider trade hence why I conservatively traded him for a 2nd rounder.
Oct 18 at 12:02
#20
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,964
Likes: 617
Quoting: Caniac2000
pOiNtS... there's more to hockey than just points. Sid was alround the best player in the league last year by some margin, his RAPM literally shames anyone else in the league, and McDavid was number 2 by almost the same margin. Kuch I'm only counting as number 3 because it might get you to shut up, but realistically last year Couturier was better, MacKinnon, Point all were. 110 points is nice production, but there's a lot more than that to this game. Defensively he was horrific (when I say horrific, I mean for his standards at an elite level, don't get that wrong) He's imo, not a top 10 player in the league anymore. He's slowing down way too much. Oh and 110 points is a lot easier with a 40 goal scorer on the other wing


somebody had to get the puck to the 40 goal scorer on the other wing. kane also had 44 himself. couturier mackinnon and point all play center which are supposed to be the defensive forward spots. thats typically how hockey works. centers pinch back wingers stay high. the fact your are using +/- as an argument says all i need to know man. worst way to judge a player in hockey is based on +/-.
ChiHawk liked this.
Oct 18 at 12:06
#21
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 6,038
Likes: 1,246
Quoting: Caniac2000
*Could*, Kakko is almost sure fire to have the next 12 years of his career at an elite level, why move him for Kane?


Quoting: Caniac2000
pOiNtS... there's more to hockey than just points. Sid was alround the best player in the league last year by some margin, his RAPM literally shames anyone else in the league, and McDavid was number 2 by almost the same margin. Kuch I'm only counting as number 3 because it might get you to shut up, but realistically last year Couturier was better, MacKinnon, Point all were. 110 points is nice production, but there's a lot more than that to this game. Defensively he was horrific (when I say horrific, I mean for his standards at an elite level, don't get that wrong) He's imo, not a top 10 player in the league anymore. He's slowing down way too much. Oh and 110 points is a lot easier with a 40 goal scorer on the other wing


I can't help to think you're just trolling now because the ignorance in your comments is overwhelming. Kane played more with Toews and Caggs/Perlini/Saad then he did with Debrincat...he only played with Cat when he was double-shifted for the most part.

Kane is a game changer, he takes over games and makes everyone on the ice with him a much better player. Very few players in the league can do that. I'd argue nobody in the league can handle a puck as well as Kane either, likely the most elusive player in the league.

To say he's not a top 10 guy is just ignorance or trolling on your part.
Oct 18 at 12:07
#22
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 6,038
Likes: 1,246
Edited Oct 18 at 2:12
Quoting: hanson493
somebody had to get the puck to the 40 goal scorer on the other wing. kane also had 44 himself. couturier mackinnon and point all play center which are supposed to be the defensive forward spots. thats typically how hockey works. centers pinch back wingers stay high. the fact your are using +/- as an argument says all i need to know man. worst way to judge a player in hockey is based on +/-.


This guy is a known to debate people just to debate without considering hard facts.
Oct 18 at 12:10
#23
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,534
Likes: 729
Quoting: Caniac2000
Your funeral, but he shouldn't be worth Kapanen


I don't watch much Chicago but my understanding was he was a 1rd
ChiHawk liked this.
Oct 18 at 12:11
#24
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,534
Likes: 729
Quoting: ChiHawk
Kane is on the downside of his career? He just put up his best year last year and was a top 3 forward in the league last year and has 5 points in 4 games this year...please explain how that is downside.

Kap for a top line right handed D man that put up 60 points last year and a 23 year old former 1st round (12th OA). As confirmed in another AGM by Toronto fans and confirmed by one here that is a very fair trade.

Kreider is a 1 year rental and likely worth a 1st but was being conservative flipping him.


For the record perlini has minimal value despite the former 12th oa part. Gus is the main part of the return
ChiHawk liked this.
Oct 18 at 12:15
#25
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,534
Likes: 729
Quoting: exo2769
I don't think that NY trade is a good fit for the Rangers. They're just starting their rebuild and also just starting their big contracts with Panarin/Trouba. If they stay the course and get picks/prospects for Kreider they're probably better off. Also, not very good for the Hawks either. It's a full on rebuild because you're literally taking a current Hart contender away from a team. Kappo can't possibly be considered Kane's equal in 2019. Down the Road fine, that argument can be had, but what do you do with Toews, Keith, and Seabs if you trade away Kane?

I like Kapanen, but I don't think he's the difference we need to be contenders. TOR can keep him. I'd prefer to get picks/prospects with Gus @ the TDL.


I think getting stuck in the idea of total rebuild or not is dangerous.

Trading a guy like Kane is tough. Eventually he will decline like anyone. Look at the return you could get on Toews today vs 3 years ago. The best time to trade him in hindsite is the year before he starts to decline.

If you truly could get a deal centred around someone like Kappo you should at least consider it. Do it? I'm not sure. But consider it.

If he goes on to put up 4 more Hart season caliber years you regret it.

If he drops to a 70 point player this year and a 50-60 point player in 3 years while Kappo improves to similar or better and way cheaper you love it.

If he puts up another Hart trophy caliber season, then slowly declines to like a 70-80 point player over the next few years instead of a 90-100+ point player (most likely scenario). It's hard to say....
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