Forums/Armchair-GM

Guentzel Is Better Than Marner

Created by: MikeyThePensFan
Initial Creation Date: Oct 19, 2019
Published: Oct 19 at 9:08 pm
Team: 2019-20 Pittsburgh Penguins
Team Explanation
I have seen this take get thrown around on social media by a lot of Pens fans and have always wondered if there was any truth to this.

Despite having already scored 26 goals and 50 points in the Stanley Cup playoffs throughout his career, many people have failed to regard Jake Guentzel as an elite player because they want to see him manage that success for an extended period of time.

He responded with a 40 goal season last year, 76 points. This year, he's on pace for 46.
The misconception seems to be that Crosby has carried Guentzel, but the truth is actually that Guentzel makes Crosby better. Honestly, it's not likely that Crosby would be able to play at such a high level at the age of 32 if he didn't have Guentzel on his wing.

Now with the comparison to Marner, it's interesting because they are different types of players who both seem to benefit from playing alongside elite centers. However, Guentzel generates more high danger shots and scores more goals. These areas are much more valuable than what Marner brings. If Guentzel played for the Leafs, he would get 11+ million.
Buried
  • Casey DeSmith: $175,000 ($1,250,000)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2020
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
2021
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
2022
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$61,824,125$132,500$3,832,500$19,675,875

Roster

Left WingCenterRight Wing
PIT
Guentzel, Jake
$6,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 5
PIT
Crosby, Sidney
$8,700,000
C
NMC
UFA - 6
PIT
Simon, Dominik
$750,000
RW, LW
RFA - 1
PIT
McCann, Jared
$1,250,000
LW, C
RFA - 1
PIT
Lafferty, Sam
$767,500
C, LW
RFA - 1
PIT
Tanev, Brandon
$3,500,000
RW, LW
NTC
UFA - 6
PIT
Kahun, Dominik
$925,000
LW, RW, C
RFA - 1
PIT
Blueger, Teddy
$750,000
C, LW
RFA - 2
PIT
Hörnqvist, Patric
$5,300,000
RW
NTC
UFA - 4
PIT
Aston-Reese, Zach
$1,000,000
LW, RW
RFA - 2
PIT
Blandisi, Joseph
$700,000
C
RFA - 1
PIT
Johnson, Adam
$700,000
C, LW
RFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
PIT
Dumoulin, Brian
$4,100,000
LD
UFA - 4
PIT
Letang, Kris
$7,250,000
RD
NMC NTC
UFA - 3
PIT
Murray, Matt
$3,750,000
G
RFA - 1
PIT
Pettersson, Marcus
$874,125
LD
RFA - 1
PIT
Schultz, Justin
$5,500,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 1
PIT
Jarry, Tristan
$675,000
G
RFA - 1
PIT
Johnson, Jack
$3,250,000
LD
UFA - 4
PIT
Marino, John
$925,000
D
RFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
PIT
Riikola, Juuso
$850,000
D
RFA - 1
PIT
Rust, Bryan
$3,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 3
PIT
Gudbranson, Erik
$4,000,000
RD
UFA - 2
PIT
Malkin, Evgeni
$9,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 3
PIT
Bjugstad, Nick
$4,100,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
PIT
Galchenyuk, Alex
$4,900,000
LW, C, RW
UFA - 1

Special Teams

Power Play 1
Hörnqvist, P.
Crosby, S.
Guentzel, J.
Schultz, J.
Letang, K.
Power Play 2
Kahun, D.
McCann, J.
Simon, D.
Pettersson, M.
Dumoulin, B.
Penalty Kill 1
Blueger, T.
Tanev, B.
Dumoulin, B.
Letang, K.
Penalty Kill 2
Lafferty, S.
Aston-Reese, Z.
Johnson, J.
Marino, J.

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Oct 19 at 9:14
#1
Formerly klondikebar
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 2,797
Likes: 1,375
Yup just like Jack Johnson is better than Seth Jones
Oct 19 at 9:20
#2
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 636
Quoting: AndrewLadd
Yup just like Jack Johnson is better than Seth Jones


That’s a terrible analogy. At least you can somewhat back up the marner guentzel debate
jo_jo66 liked this.
Oct 19 at 9:46
#3
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 51
Likes: 6
Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
That’s a terrible analogy. At least you can somewhat back up the marner guentzel debate


How about we just say they both impact their teams in their own way
Capitalfail67 liked this.
Oct 19 at 9:46
#4
Caps fan idk why
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 4,345
Likes: 1,298
Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
That’s a terrible analogy. At least you can somewhat back up the marner guentzel debate


Guentzel minus Crosby isn’t better than Kap
Oct 19 at 9:50
#5
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,430
Likes: 916
Guentzel is a very good player, but he'll probably max out as a consistent 70ish point player maybe hit 80ish 1 or 2 times. Marner on the other hand will be a consistent 90ish point player that will hit 100 points a couple time. Marner is easily the better of the 2 players.
AFOX10900 liked this.
Oct 19 at 9:56
#6
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 636
Quoting: Capitalfail67
Guentzel minus Crosby isn’t better than Kap


lmao stop. Thats not close to being true
Oct 19 at 9:57
#7
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 636
Quoting: ClockReads2113
Guentzel is a very good player, but he'll probably max out as a consistent 70ish point player maybe hit 80ish 1 or 2 times. Marner on the other hand will be a consistent 90ish point player that will hit 100 points a couple time. Marner is easily the better of the 2 players.


Exactly. Marner will get a crazy amount of points, but I think Guentzel will get more goals just because of their roles
Oct 19 at 9:57
#8
BuFfaLoFan
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 518
Quoting: ClockReads2113
Guentzel is a very good player, but he'll probably max out as a consistent 70ish point player maybe hit 80ish 1 or 2 times. Marner on the other hand will be a consistent 90ish point player that will hit 100 points a couple time. Marner is easily the better of the 2 players.


Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
That’s a terrible analogy. At least you can somewhat back up the marner guentzel debate


Quoting: AndrewLadd
Yup just like Jack Johnson is better than Seth Jones


It's funny, Pens fans have been trying to justify that there 25yr old winger is better than the other top wingers in the conferance that are 3+ year younger. Has yhis convo about Svechnikov and I still think Svech could be better this year or next. + 60% of Guentzels goals this year are assisted by Crosby...he makes Crosby better is just saying that he is better than other wingers Crosby has had. Crosby make Guentzel the scorer he is.
AndrewLadd liked this.
Oct 19 at 9:58
#9
BuFfaLoFan
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 518
Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Exactly. Marner will get a crazy amount of points, but I think Guentzel will get more goals just because of their roles


Points is more important than goals.
Oct 19 at 9:59
#10
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 636
Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN
It's funny, Pens fans have been trying to justify that there 25yr old winger is better than the other top wingers in the conferance that are 3+ year younger. Has yhis convo about Svechnikov and I still think Svech could be better this year or next. + 60% of Guentzels goals this year are assisted by Crosby...he makes Crosby better is just saying that he is better than other wingers Crosby has had. Crosby make Guentzel the scorer he is.


You clearly dont watch any pens games. Watch them play together and you'll change that opinion. People always say crosby makes all of his wingers, but I dont see too many 40 goal scorers crosby has played with in his career.
Oct 19 at 10:00
#11
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 636
Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN
Points is more important than goals.


Ok and? I agreed with him
Oct 19 at 11:14
#12
Cale 4 Calder
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,475
Likes: 1,018
both guentzel and marner rely heavily on their centre to drive play for them. check guentzel with and without crosby and marner with and without tavares for the last 2 seasons

http://nhltools.com/Index.php
Oct 19 at 11:34
#13
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 2,305
Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
That’s a terrible analogy. At least you can somewhat back up the marner guentzel debate


Sarcasm....learn it.
Oct 19 at 11:40
#14
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 636
Quoting: Gofnut999
Sarcasm....learn it.


Great response by you. You provided so much to this thread
Oct 19 at 11:43
#15
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 2,305
Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Great response by you. You provided so much to this thread


You’re welome.


Psst...that’s sarcasm too.
Oct 19 at 11:44
#16
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 636
Quoting: Gofnut999
You’re welome.


Psst...that’s sarcasm too.


Kind of like the bruins winning the cup? Oh wait thats more of a joke than a sarcastic comment
Oct 19 at 11:46
#17
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 2,305
Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Kind of like the bruins winning the cup? Oh wait thats more of a joke than a sarcastic comment


Ouch that hurts.


Again....sarcasm. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Lol.
Oct 19 at 11:47
#18
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 636
Quoting: Gofnut999
Ouch that hurts.


Again....sarcasm. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Lol.


Good for you little buddy
Oct 19 at 11:56
#19
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 2,305
Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Good for you little buddy


Now you want something added...here you go:

He was being sarcastic because comparing the 2 is idiotic. That’s not a knock on Guentzel. He’s a great player. But the league is full of great players. If the NHL got crazy and voided all contracts and had a fantasy draft to restock the league, Marner would be a first round pick. Guentzel would go in round 4 or 5 roughly.

Again not a slight on Guentzel. So don’t get your panties in a bunch. There would be plenty of really really good players going after him.
Oct 19 at 11:59
#20
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 636
Quoting: Gofnut999
Now you want something added...here you go:

He was being sarcastic because comparing the 2 is idiotic. That’s not a knock on Guentzel. He’s a great player. But the league is full of great players. If the NHL got crazy and voided all contracts and had a fantasy draft to restock the league, Marner would be a first round pick. Guentzel would go in round 4 or 5 roughly.

Again not a slight on Guentzel. So don’t get your panties in a bunch. There would be plenty of really really good players going after him.


Lmao obviously I know it’s sarcastic. Clearly you comprehended my response very wrong. It’s an idiotic sarcastic comment because Jack Johnson is horrible, and Seth Jones is one of the best. Why use those players when neither marner and guentzel are horrible? To say guentzel goes in round 4 or 5 is even more idiotic 😂
Oct 20 at 12:01
#21
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 2,305
Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Lmao obviously I know it’s sarcastic. Clearly you comprehended my response very wrong. It’s an idiotic sarcastic comment because Jack Johnson is horrible, and Seth Jones is one of the best. Why use those players when neither marner and guentzel are horrible? To say guentzel goes in round 4 or 5 is even more idiotic 😂


You think he goes lower than 4-5?
Oct 20 at 12:04
#22
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 636
Quoting: Gofnut999
You think he goes lower than 4-5?


Yup you’re right. Round 4 or 5 if he’s lucky. Are you done yet because this conversation is going nowhere
Oct 20 at 12:08
#23
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 2,305
Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Yup you’re right. Round 4 or 5 if he’s lucky. Are you done yet because this conversation is going nowhere


Homers. Lol. Sorry bud he would have hard time cracking the top 20 just within the division.

But ya, i’m done. Go put you Pens PJs on. Night night.
Oct 20 at 12:09
#24
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 636
Quoting: Gofnut999
Homers. Lol. Sorry bud he would have hard time cracking the top 20 just within the division.

But ya, i’m done. Go put you Pens PJs on. Night night.


Lol I’m a homer even though I agreed marner is better? Are all bruins fans this stupid or just you?
Oct 20 at 12:19
#25
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 2,305
Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Lol I’m a homer even though I agreed marner is better? Are all bruins fans this stupid or just you?


Oh no Bruins have plenty of stupid fans. Pretty sure they stole a couple of other franchises dumb ones. They were just to dumb to realize they were cheering for another team.

And no, i understood your post perfectly. You complained about his comparison. He wasn’t trying to make a similar comparison because that is how sarcasm works. Getting bent out of shape over a sarcastic comparison was pointless, laugh and move on. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
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