Putting Nylander on the top line with 19 and 88 is a bad idea. He is progressing really nicely on the 4th line learning the value of hard work and defensive responsibility. Putting him on that top line might be too much for him to handle right now, and considering how average Toews has been I think he would be in a bad position again.

I worry about Dach. He's big, has great reach, good hands, good passing but he's slow and out of position A LOT. At this point, I kind of think easing him in a bottom 6 role is a good idea. Wish we could trade him for Turcotte though honestly...I'd do it in a heartbeat.

I think it’s too soon to tell. The kid is still 18 years old and he is going to have those bad positioning moments and might have trouble adjusting to the pro speed of the game, but I really think he’ll be fine. He played good tonight, and I think he has a good chance of staying with us all season.

I think he'll be good, but as I've said all along, he's a 2C or 3C, he doesn't have the speed, IQ, or focus that Turcotte has. Turcotte is a 1C/2C lock, just a step ahead of Dach and can't help but solidfy my opinions the more I see of Dach. Again, not that a 2c/3C guy is bad by any means, but just reminds me so much of Strome.

Good opinions on both sides guys. Like where your heads are at. I was at the game last night and I’ll be honest, there’s some give and take with your opinions.

Firstly, i gotta agree with you Stan, I love where nylander is at! Him on the 4th line has taught him so much responsibility and he actually looks to be thriving. It says something that the bottom six are bigger producers than the top six (more on that in a sec), and I think nylander is helping in that regard. In fact, I’d argue that the bottom six lines are more set than the top six. The top six is kind of a mess and my only set solution is get cat and strome back together.

Second, I gotta agree with ChiHawk, as I have for months, regarding Dach. Yes he’s 18, yes he may adjust to different areas of the game eventually. However, tonight was actually not a good example of that. Sure he got his first goal, but it was hell of a lucky bounce when Vegas got caught puck watching. The rest of the game there was absolutely nothing he did. In fact, he was awful in the defensive zone, an area he was supposedly good in. Even though it’s only been two games, speed is absolutely a huge concern now. I don’t care how good his hands are or how big he may be, but his lack of speed easily means he can’t be a 1C in today’s NHL. Time and time again last night tried to deke through a dman only to be held off momentarily trying to go past them. These last two games haven’t actually impressed me as much as they’ve concerned me. He has shown he can take the punishment maybe, but he absolutely doesn’t look like a game changer whatsoever. As I’ve said before, I definitely think he stays with us, but not because he’s necessarily ready or makes us that much better, but rather cuz he’s forced on the team. Bowman’s job is depending on him.

Just some observations guys. I like the opinions a lot. I’d also love to see the young defensemen get their chances too! When it comes dach, we definitely need defenders (Stan), and those who will hold him to his draft position (ChiHawk and myself).

100% agree with this. It seems to be working on the 4th line. For a guy that's bounced between the AHL/NHL a bit, I think it'll be a good thing for him to just be comfortable knowing he's staying around. Let's keep a good thing going.



I thought Dach had good Hockey IQ last night. Getting a fluke goal comes from being in the right place at the right time. He missed a few clears last night, but heck literally everyone does that...even the Toews/Kanes of the world. Good vision and effort. He did look slow, but he's 18 and still developing physically. That'll come with more time.

Dach looked real good IMO. Had some sick moves out there. He's a power forward, he's not supposed to be Connor McDavid. @ChiHawk you need to calm down. Dach is gonna be a Joe Thornton type guy. As for the lines, Toews, Strome, and DeBrincat have sucked. The second line should be DeBrincat-Strome-Shaw. The first line should be Caggiula-Toews-Kane. Leave the 3rd line alone and have the 4th line as Nylander-Carpenter-Dach. Dach will improve. I think you are all underrating him. No one understands the importance of a power forward.

Also, I still think Gustafsson should get traded when we have a perfectly good Adam Boqvist sitting in the minors. We just need to get rolling. The overall play of the Blackhawks looked fantastic last night. Keith is unnoticeable this year but whatever. Last night we simply ran into a hot goalie.

MAF was amazing last night. Give credit where it's due...he stood on his head.

Dach is like Strome but going to be better IMO. Just not sure we need another slow footed guy. That said, we have Dach so begs the question, do we need Strome too in the future? I would think Strome would be expendable in the near future as they are redundant types of Centers and we will need speed as it's obvious Toews is slowing down. Also, Strome is not a wing...let's stop that experiment.

It's funny how the world works. We draft Schmaltz as a center. He was pretty bad at center with the Hawks, but a fast dynamic winger. (I've heard AZ fans say he's been fine at center. I just haven't seen it). We trade Schmaltz for Strome because we need a true Center. Which Strome is. We win the Lottery and I think we all agree that the pick needs to be best available. We may disagree with Bowman on who that is, but he believes it to be Dach. Now we have two centers and need a #1 winger.

Let me start by saying, fan is short for fanatic. That being said, and with the last two years in mind, no one should be telling anyone to calm down or relax. As fans, we expect the same commitment in our team from the front office and players that we have.

Now, ChiHawk is completely right. We have three very slow centers. Strome and dach are almost identical. Dach is more skilled yes. But strome is definitely a good idea that Dach will not get any faster. Dach can fill out, but he won’t get faster.

Lastly, power forwards. In a statement, I hate them. In today’s NHL, I hate them. Dach is gonna be joe Thornton? Cool, can we go back in time 10 years to when size and no speed was a good thing? For the record, Dach will never have the passing and vision of joe Thornton in my opinion. He may be getzlaf, but even then, his style is a relic too. I for one am not undervaluing Dach, I’m just straight up criticizing his playing style. I’ve never liked it and he will always need someone else to make him. Slow guys like him can’t influence a game if they can’t be fast enough to make a play. I know I’m being harsh, and dach may be fine, it he won’t be like turcotte, or byram, or zegras, or caufield, or any other player who constantly impact game because they’re dynamic and constantly keep skating. Don’t forget, dach was sat the whole second period last night. I don’t want to put words in mouths, but I do think a huge concern was his lack speed combined with the long change.

Totally agree...in today's game, you don't win being slow down the middle. McDavid, Matthews...these guys are fast. Bowman was clearly trying to win now and felt Dach was the most NHL ready given that Turcotte needs to grow in size, and rarely do defenders jump into the league at 18 years old so Byram was a scratch. I think that was incredibly short sighted by Bowman. Turcotte would have been great, and had I known we were going to trade Joker, Byram would have made a lot of sense. I don't get Bowman's plan....big slow physical guys up front and small, fast moving defenders? If you look at what he's done in the last couple years, it seems this is the way we are headed intentional or not but makes zero sense.

@HatterTParty @ChiHawk Good convo. Good thoughts.

I think the past few years have proven that the trend to a PURE speed game (while admittedly is occurring) has been drastically overrated. The speed increases YES, but NOT at the cost of size. Players are getting faster AND bigger. Teams like BOS, WAS, STL, LVK, NSH make it to the cup finals because of guys like Tom Wilson (who I very much dislike. I think he's 1 suspension away from being labeled Raffi Torres) It's not like talent is oozing out of Tom Wilson. He's not Sydney Crosby or anything close. He's BIG and FAST and MEAN. Were also completely discounting guys like (look at your avatar!) Marian Hossa, Mark Stone, O'Reilly, Bergeron, Ovechkin, the list goes on. Hossa might have been fast with OTT or ATL, but he wasn't fast with the Hawks. Not even his 1st year with the Hawks. It's just that no one could move him off the puck and he could steal it away from anyone. No everyone is a speedster.

Matthews isn't that fast for the record. He's not slow, but I don't see him on any lists for fastest player in Toronto let alone in the league. Same goes with Eichel.

Honestly, look at Schmaltz. He was drafted as a fast center. Got moved to wing. You know who else doesn't take a ton of faceoffs...McDavid because Drai takes them for him. You know who else is likely to get moved to wing on a non-partial basis anymore...Stamkos. There's chemistry within a line. It's not just Bowman either. Lots of GMs build teams around a sound middle and faster wings. Who was the last center the Hawks had that was "Speedy? It was before their 3 cups...that much I know.

Agreed, good debates, love it all!

I’ll start by saying, ChiHawk, I don’t how many times we’ve discussed the topic of what bowman is doing these past few years. His draft policy is absolutely confusing and I don’t understand why his policy was to draft small And fast the past few years then grab big and slow this year. Then he makes the weird trades he does this offseason. It just doesn’t make sense anymore and also makes me feel more and more like Stan is just scared and feels the need to be like the Blues, which really sucks.

Now, to the point of big Vs. fast. I’ll be the first to say, if you can get someone who’s big and fast a la tom Wilson, id be stoked. However, I don’t think teams make the finals because of guys like him, I really don’t. Pittsburgh won two straight cups playing lights out speed and possession hockey. They had one the worst defenses I’ve ever seen, but teams just couldn’t catch them, not even Nashville or Washington. However, Washington finally beat them for two reasons, and neither has to do with size. One, was that they focused more on a speed style that brought their depth into the series. Second, and most important, was a 1-4 neutral zone trap that turned the puck over quick and led to lighting fast counter attacks. So realistically, I don’t seem as a true brick and mortar team either. Then there’s St. Louis. Everyone and their grandmother knows how the Blues play. It’s slow, boring, debilitating, and any other word to describe hard to watch. They literally put fans to sleep! But, I still believe their team is the anomaly, not the trend. Boston may be tough, and I get it, they are. However, the amount of skill and speed players they have is just as impressive. So yes, they do have a good mix. I’d argue, last season was the first season we saw as big an influence placed on grit as we did. The hawks won in 2015 in spite of no toughness if you remember. Hawks vs. Ducks anyone?? Kesler claimed no team could take that many hits, yea right!

Point I’m trying to make is that if you have a team that can skate faster and longer every second of the game, in the vein of the penguins or 2015 Blackhawks, it’s pretty damn hard to get the puck from them let alone hit them. The Avs were a great example of this in the playoffs last year! Before the refs helped the sharks (again) in the second round. Then look at what your saying for centers vs wingers. You say Bergeron, o’reilly, and how bout schenn. I can raise you Crosby, karlsson, kuznetsov, Backstrom, and Reilly Smith. Each one, wicked fast, cup finalist. In all honesty, I get how people think physical has to mix with speed. But I still think teams like the Avs are gonna continue the speed trend. Not the blues, who were just a team of destiny last year. That’s just my view on the nhl. Hard to score when you can’t catch the guy who has it.