Forums/Armchair-GM

Babcock Out Realistic Trades and Line Changes

Created by: KoneDome
Initial Creation Date: Oct 23, 2019
Published: Oct 23, 2019 at 4:44 pm
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Trades
TOR
  1. Georgiev, Alexandar
  2. Fast, Jesper
NYR
  1. Kapanen, Kasperi
  2. Hutchinson, Michael
  3. 2020 3rd round pick (CBJ)
TOR
  1. Stecher, Troy ($1,000,000 retained)
VAN
  1. Petan, Nicolas
  2. Brooks, Adam
  3. Marincin, Martin
  4. 2020 6th round pick (CAR)
Buyouts
  • Mikhail Grabovski: $0
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
  • Robin Lehner: $1,100,000 (22%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2020
TOR
TOR
VGK
TOR
COL
EDM
SJS
STL
WPG
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$82,514,643$0$202,500-$1,014,643
Left WingCenterRight Wing
TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
$925,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
TOR
Matthews, Auston
$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
TOR
Nylander, William
$6,962,366
RW, LW
UFA - 5
TOR
Hyman, Zach
$2,250,000
LW
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Tavares, John
$11,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 6
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
$10,893,000
RW
UFA - 6
TOR
Johnsson, Andreas
$3,400,000
LW
UFA - 4
TOR
Kerfoot, Alexander
$3,500,000
C, LW
UFA - 4
NYR
Fast, Jesper
$1,850,000
RW
UFA - 1
TOR
Timashov, Dmytro
$694,444
LW
RFA - 1
TOR
Gauthier, Frédérik
$675,000
C
RFA - 1
TOR
Moore, Trevor
$775,000
RW, LW
RFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
TOR
Ceci, Cody
$4,500,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Andersen, Frederik
$5,000,000
G
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Muzzin, Jake
$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
TOR
Barrie, Tyson
$2,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
NYR
Georgiev, Alexandar
$792,500
G
RFA - 1
TOR
Dermott, Travis
$863,333
LD
RFA - 1
VAN
Stecher, Troy
$1,325,000
RD
RFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
TOR
Holl, Justin
$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Clarkson, David
$5,250,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Shore, Nick
$750,000
C
UFA - 1
TOR
Horton, Nathan
$5,300,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1

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Oct 23, 2019 at 4:51
#1
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 15,025
Likes: 4,652
This just seems like a waste. I've liked Holl in the lineup. I've liked him better than Ceci to be honest. Doesn't have as many tools as Ceci but he's far better between the ears from what I've seen. Although Ceci is not bad at taking the slot away which is something that has been a soft spot for TO. Anyways, I just don't know if drastic changes are needed, more just the team needs to come together and also perhaps better coaching. I am not liking Babs much these days.
Oct 23, 2019 at 4:57
#2
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 709
Likes: 130
I obviously have no idea to the reality behind this, but you have to wonder about guys like Matthews, Marner and Nylander. All entering their third/fourth year and the only voice they have heard thus far in their career is that of Babcock. Gotta think that wears on you eventually.
Oct 23, 2019 at 5:00
#3
Hugh Hefner of CF
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 4,510
Likes: 2,734
Edited Oct 24, 2019 at 1:34
Remove Fast add DeAngelo, might to add from Leafs but that's okay.
Sign_em_up000000 liked this.
Oct 23, 2019 at 5:02
#4
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 1,540
Quoting: LoganOllivier
This just seems like a waste. I've liked Holl in the lineup. I've liked him better than Ceci to be honest. Doesn't have as many tools as Ceci but he's far better between the ears from what I've seen. Although Ceci is not bad at taking the slot away which is something that has been a soft spot for TO. Anyways, I just don't know if drastic changes are needed, more just the team needs to come together and also perhaps better coaching. I am not liking Babs much these days.


I was just about to write something similar. I agree, and I hope Babcock's time is just about up. I liked him alot during his first two seasons but increasingly I'm seeing that when the leafs do have success it's not because of Babcock, it's in spite of him.

Other than that, don't trade Kap - he's looking good as a 3rw at 3M and change. Really like the lineup though, and not trading Kap means a third line of AJ - Ketfoot -Kap given this agm. That would be fast, and fun to watch.
Sign_em_up000000 liked this.
Oct 23, 2019 at 5:05
#5
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,913
Likes: 413
Quoting: KoneDome
I obviously have no idea to the reality behind this, but you have to wonder about guys like Matthews, Marner and Nylander. All entering their third/fourth year and the only voice they have heard thus far in their career is that of Babcock. Gotta think that wears on you eventually.


It's the fan voices they've been listening to anointing them as elite, generational, top 5 in the league, etc, etc. They got their money now they've got nothing to prove.
Oct 23, 2019 at 5:07
#6
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 15,025
Likes: 4,652
Quoting: blowing_the_zone
I was just about to write something similar. I agree, and I hope Babcock's time is just about up. I liked him alot during his first two seasons but increasingly I'm seeing that when the leafs do have success it's not because of Babcock, it's in spite of him.

Other than that, don't trade Kap - he's looking good as a 3rw at 3M and change. Really like the lineup though, and not trading Kap means a third line of AJ - Ketfoot -Kap given this agm. That would be fast, and fun to watch.


Yeah that would be a fast line for sure.

However, I am not worried about who plays with who, I am more concerned with the constant miscues on the defensive side of things. Blown assignments are why most of the grade A chances happening. Its not the #6 defenceman or Ceci as much as its just overall lax team play. Forwards blowing the zone (Did you like that one my friend?), or defending on the wrong side. Not being prepared to go at puck drop etc etc. That is very much a coaching issue.
Oct 23, 2019 at 5:07
#7
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,913
Likes: 413
Kapanen has been the best Leaf lately not named Andersen. Holl has been good too along with Muzzin

Rielly and Ceci have been awful. Never thought I'd wish to see old Ronald back but...
Oct 23, 2019 at 5:10
#8
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 534
Likes: 159
Vancouver says no. We'd want something like Kapanen coming back, with the trade being modified. Not a whole bunch of spare parts.

Stetcher isn't being shopped, teams are just calling because he's on the bottom pairing now.
Oct 23, 2019 at 5:15
#9
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 1,540
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Yeah that would be a fast line for sure.

However, I am not worried about who plays with who, I am more concerned with the constant miscues on the defensive side of things. Blown assignments are why most of the grade A chances happening. Its not the #6 defenceman or Ceci as much as its just overall lax team play. Forwards blowing the zone (Did you like that one my friend?), or defending on the wrong side. Not being prepared to go at puck drop etc etc. That is very much a coaching issue.


Yeah that's pretty much what I'm seeing. The leafs have had the same defensive issues for the last 3 years. I don't think it really matters who is playing d for the leafs ( to a certain degree), we're going to have the same crappy d game given the way they're being told to play.

And this with having a new assistant d coach this year and Rielly being the only d man with more than a half of a year playing for the team. The leafs d game lands at Babcock's feet imo. Fire him into the sun first and see what a new a coach can do with this team before shipping out roster players.
Oct 23, 2019 at 5:16
#10
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 1,540
Quoting: Goulet
It's the fan voices they've been listening to anointing them as elite, generational, top 5 in the league, etc, etc. They got their money now they've got nothing to prove.


This could be spot on. And if it is, it's something to be seriously concerned about.
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Oct 23, 2019 at 5:18
#11
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 1,540
Quoting: Goulet
Kapanen has been the best Leaf lately not named Andersen. Holl has been good too along with Muzzin

Rielly and Ceci have been awful. Never thought I'd wish to see old Ronald back but...


I'm pretty much just going to agree with everything you post from now on. I had the same come to jesus moment about old man Hainsey. That was some bitter humble pie for me to swallow.
oneX, Sign_em_up000000 and Goulet liked this.
Oct 23, 2019 at 5:23
#12
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 1,540
Quoting: KoneDome
I obviously have no idea to the reality behind this, but you have to wonder about guys like Matthews, Marner and Nylander. All entering their third/fourth year and the only voice they have heard thus far in their career is that of Babcock. Gotta think that wears on you eventually.


It wears on me and I'm just watching the game from my couch..
Oct 23, 2019 at 6:07
#13
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 31,754
Likes: 8,085
Does Shanahan have the courage to fire Babcock? He hired him so there is a natural reluctance to fire the guy you hired. Shanahan and his group certainly handled the RFA negotiations badly.
Shanahan and Babcock are both wearing on me.
OK fire Babcock. If players don't respond to that, some big names are being traded in June.
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Oct 23, 2019 at 6:13
#14
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,685
Likes: 1,758
Quoting: blowing_the_zone
I'm pretty much just going to agree with everything you post from now on. I had the same come to jesus moment about old man Hainsey. That was some bitter humble pie for me to swallow.


I've had that momment too about Hainsey. Sad thing is with the way the team is currently constructed, it's hard imagine Dubas will be able to find a proper D partner for Rielly.

That said, Rielly needs to be better defensively.
Sign_em_up000000 liked this.
Oct 23, 2019 at 6:59
#15
Habs4life
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 344
Likes: 37
How about putting the blame where the blame belongs the G.M. The team was going in the right direction and then they replaced LOU!
Oct 23, 2019 at 7:04
#16
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 15,025
Likes: 4,652
Quoting: blowing_the_zone
This could be spot on. And if it is, it's something to be seriously concerned about.


I don't think that's at all the case. Matthews and Marner want to win just as much as anyone else. All the fame and pomp is nothing without a cup and they know it.
Oct 23, 2019 at 7:05
#17
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 15,025
Likes: 4,652
Quoting: Captain_Koivu_
How about putting the blame where the blame belongs the G.M. The team was going in the right direction and then they replaced LOU!


Zaitsev, Marleau.... Now what were you saying?
Oct 23, 2019 at 7:12
#18
Habs4life
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 344
Likes: 37
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Zaitsev, Marleau.... Now what were you saying?


Quoting: LoganOllivier
Zaitsev, Marleau.... Now what were you saying?


Zaitsev for Ceci and he sign him??? Nothing wrong with Marleau he was there for leadership. Good luck in the draft this year. Go Habs Go.
Oct 23, 2019 at 7:12
#19
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 1,540
Edited Oct 23, 2019 at 7:34
Quoting: palhal
Does Shanahan have the courage to fire Babcock? He hired him so there is a natural reluctance to fire the guy you hired. Shanahan and his group certainly handled the RFA negotiations badly.
Shanahan and Babcock are both wearing on me.
OK fire Babcock. If players don't respond to that, some big names are being traded in June.


I think this is a pretty sound approach, Pal. The same red flags keep coming up with the leafs year over year which Logan spelled out pretty well, imo. I think the quarter mark for this season would be a good threshold for a decision point. If the leafs are 500 or below at that time then I could see Babcock getting canned. And like you mention, after that everyone gets put on notice that some big changes could be coming if the team doesnt play up to expectations.

I don't mind Shanny at all, mostly cause I hardly ever hear from him in the media, which is how it should be. And maybe that's why Babs wears on me. I know it's part of his job to deal with the media everyday, but his rhetoric, communication style, and his penchant for playing favorites and throwing other guys under the bus is getting old. That's no reason to fire a guy, but with all the talent that the leafs have I think it could be time soon to see if another guy could get more out of this team, at least as a first step before trading out roster players.
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Oct 23, 2019 at 7:17
#20
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 1,540
Quoting: LoganOllivier
I don't think that's at all the case. Matthews and Marner want to win just as much as anyone else. All the fame and pomp is nothing without a cup and they know it.


Yeah, that's not the way I interpreted Goulet's post at all. The way I read it is that some of the guys bought into the hype that they're better than they actually are, cashed in on it bigtime, and that life is pretty gravy for young 20 something multi millionaires. It can be hard to have a fire in your belly when its fed so very, very well..
Goulet liked this.
Oct 23, 2019 at 7:20
#21
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 1,540
Quoting: oneX
I've had that momment too about Hainsey. Sad thing is with the way the team is currently constructed, it's hard imagine Dubas will be able to find a proper D partner for Rielly.

That said, Rielly needs to be better defensively.


I really think Dermott could be that guy when he gets brought back up to speed. Holl might not even be such a terrible option with the way he's been playing and if he's given some reps with Mo. What could it hurt to give it a shot?
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Oct 23, 2019 at 7:23
#22
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 15,025
Likes: 4,652
Quoting: Captain_Koivu_
Zaitsev for Ceci and he sign him??? Nothing wrong with Marleau he was there for leadership. Good luck in the draft this year. Go Habs Go.


Same salary that now is off the books after this season, and there is now way the Leafs could have kept this roster while paying Marleau 6.25 million.
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Oct 23, 2019 at 7:41
#23
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 3,388
Likes: 2,099
Quoting: palhal
Does Shanahan have the courage to fire Babcock? He hired him so there is a natural reluctance to fire the guy you hired. Shanahan and his group certainly handled the RFA negotiations badly.
Shanahan and Babcock are both wearing on me.
OK fire Babcock. If players don't respond to that, some big names are being traded in June.


Shanny ain't wearing on me, but Bab's is. You're right some big names are going to be traded probably to balance out the team, personally, I think it's Nylander but time will tell.
Oct 23, 2019 at 7:43
#24
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 3,388
Likes: 2,099
Quoting: blowing_the_zone
I really think Dermott could be that guy when he gets brought back up to speed. Holl might not even be such a terrible option with the way he's been playing and if he's given some reps with Mo. What could it hurt to give it a shot?


I like Holl as well but I would be hesitant too put him with Rielly as I think he would get exposed playing against better competition.
Oct 23, 2019 at 7:50
#25
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 15,025
Likes: 4,652
Quoting: blowing_the_zone
Yeah, that's not the way I interpreted Goulet's post at all. The way I read it is that some of the guys bought into the hype that they're better than they actually are, cashed in on it bigtime, and that life is pretty gravy for young 20 something multi millionaires. It can be hard to have a fire in your belly when its fed so very, very well..


I don't think so. They are all elite players and I don't think any of them got to this level without fire in their bellies. They are still young, they are only going to get better.
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