Forums/Armchair-GM

Question for leafs fans

Created by: niko
Initial Creation Date: Nov 11, 2019
Published: Nov 11 at 2:04 pm
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Team Explanation
What is the value for Bracco?
Buyouts
  • Mikhail Grabovski: $0
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2020
TOR
CBJ
TOR
VGK
TOR
CAR
COL
EDM
SJS
STL
WPG
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
26$81,500,000$94,064,643$0$202,500-$12,564,643
Left WingCenterRight Wing
TOR
Johnsson, Andreas
$3,400,000
LW
UFA - 4
TOR
Matthews, Auston
$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
$10,893,000
RW
UFA - 6
TOR
Hyman, Zach
$2,250,000
LW
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Tavares, John
$11,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 6
TOR
Nylander, William
$6,962,366
RW, C
UFA - 5
TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
$925,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
TOR
Kerfoot, Alexander
$3,500,000
C, LW
UFA - 4
TOR
Horton, Nathan
$5,300,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Marchment, Mason
$767,500
LW
RFA - 1
TOR
Shore, Nick
$750,000
C
UFA - 1
TOR
Clarkson, David
$5,250,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Timashov, Dmytro
$694,444
LW
RFA - 1
TOR
Spezza, Jason
$700,000
C, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Kapanen, Kasperi
$3,200,000
RW
RFA - 3
TOR
Gauthier, Frédérik
$675,000
C
RFA - 1
TOR
Moore, Trevor
$775,000
RW, LW
RFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
TOR
Ceci, Cody
$4,500,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Andersen, Frederik
$5,000,000
G
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Muzzin, Jake
$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
TOR
Barrie, Tyson
$2,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Hutchinson, Michael
$700,000
G
UFA - 1
TOR
Dermott, Travis
$863,333
LD
RFA - 1
TOR
Holl, Justin
$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Marincin, Martin
$700,000
LD
UFA - 1

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Nov 11 at 2:07
#1
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,516
Likes: 479
A late 2nd round pick.
niko liked this.
Nov 11 at 2:08
#2
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 28,589
Likes: 6,581
Virtually zero value in a NHL trade. I don't think he will ever be an NHLer. He might be throw in in a trade for a team that think he has NHL potential. Best wishes to Bracco but he's like hundreds maybe thousands of previous AHLers...Good AHL skills/production but they don't transform into being an NHLer.
niko liked this.
Nov 11 at 2:09
#3
GM Hockeysaurus Rex
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 10,866
Likes: 4,213
Depending on what you want to trade him for. A team with lack of depth on wing for Leafs need of backup if Kaskisuo fails would be a good thing (Georgiev for Bracco as discussed previously in here for example). His value varies based on the piece coming back I would say. He is in a weird spot.
niko liked this.
Nov 11 at 2:13
#4
Thread Starter
LGI
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 491
Likes: 109
Quoting: SammyT_51
Depending on what you want to trade him for. A team with lack of depth on wing for Leafs need of backup if Kaskisuo fails would be a good thing (Georgiev for Bracco as discussed previously in here for example). His value varies based on the piece coming back I would say. He is in a weird spot.


I'm an Isles fan and have always had a liking for Bracco.. Probably because he grew up on long island lol. So what would you say his value is in an Isles and Leafs deal?
SammyT_51 liked this.
Nov 11 at 2:14
#5
exo2769
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,053
Likes: 1,247
Quoting: palhal
Virtually zero value in a NHL trade. I don't think he will ever be an NHLer. He might be throw in in a trade for a team that think he has NHL potential. Best wishes to Bracco but he's like hundreds maybe thousands of previous AHLers...Good AHL skills/production but they don't transform into being an NHLer.


You might be right, but I can tell you from another teams perspective...Hawks...that Bowman's been vocal about getting their AHL affiliate the icehogs better. I'm not suggesting a 2nd or even 3rd rounder, but I do think there's increment value in having a for lack of a better term...professional AHLer to help develop your prospects. Why they signed Kris Versteeg. I think we're going to see a slight shift in quality of players in the AHL vs other leagues. Think Sandin/Brannstrom/Foote. I think teams are a little more willing to allow prospects develop in the AHL than in recent history. I feel like it used to be OHL/WHL/Q...straight into the NHL and it was almost like...if you couldn't hack it...then demoted to the AHL. Now it's slightly more accepting that AHL time is the norm. no?
niko liked this.
Nov 11 at 2:16
#6
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 7,737
Likes: 2,508
Give you Maxime Lagace and a 5th.
niko liked this.
Nov 11 at 2:16
#7
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 401
Likes: 245
I got to watch him a bit in Junior (Windsor Spitfires season tickets for 10+ year), I was never overly impressed, I doubt he's anything more than what he is now, a Solid AHLer I can't see his game translating to the NHL level as other have said here. I'd give up a 5th at most for him
niko liked this.
Nov 11 at 2:18
#8
GM Hockeysaurus Rex
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 10,866
Likes: 4,213
Quoting: niko
I'm an Isles fan and have always had a liking for Bracco.. Probably because he grew up on long island lol. So what would you say his value is in an Isles and Leafs deal?


A deal around Mayfield probably. Bracco has a lot of NHL level talent. Jeremy Bracco + Joseph Duszak + 3rd round pick for Scott Mayfield + Josh Ho-Sang
Nov 11 at 2:20
#9
Thread Starter
LGI
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 491
Likes: 109
Quoting: SammyT_51
A deal around Mayfield probably. Bracco has a lot of NHL level talent. Jeremy Bracco + Joseph Duszak + 3rd round pick for Scott Mayfield + Josh Ho-Sang


A lot of other people in this thread are saying he is likely not to become an NHL'er and if that's the case I wouldn't wanna give up Mayfield.
Nov 11 at 2:21
#10
GM Hockeysaurus Rex
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 10,866
Likes: 4,213
Quoting: niko
A lot of other people in this thread are saying he is likely not to become an NHL'er and if that's the case I wouldn't wanna give up Mayfield.


I mean.. Mike Hoffman made NHL at 24.. he has potential to be solid NHL playmaker. Not good defensively but good playmaker. Not a bottom-6 player for example.
Nov 11 at 2:24
#11
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 28,589
Likes: 6,581
Quoting: exo2769
You might be right, but I can tell you from another teams perspective...Hawks...that Bowman's been vocal about getting their AHL affiliate the icehogs better. I'm not suggesting a 2nd or even 3rd rounder, but I do think there's increment value in having a for lack of a better term...professional AHLer to help develop your prospects. Why they signed Kris Versteeg. I think we're going to see a slight shift in quality of players in the AHL vs other leagues. Think Sandin/Brannstrom/Foote. I think teams are a little more willing to allow prospects develop in the AHL than in recent history. I feel like it used to be OHL/WHL/Q...straight into the NHL and it was almost like...if you couldn't hack it...then demoted to the AHL. Now it's slightly more accepting that AHL time is the norm. no?


Exo, I'm an AHL supporter and it certainly has purpose in player development to the NHL. Just my opinion watching Bracco live and on TV. He doesn't have what it takes to be an NHLer. Look at the top scorers the AHL throughout the years. Often lifers in the AHLer cause their speed, strength, thought process just doesn't transform into the faster NHL.
Leafs have legit NHLers (in the future) with the Marlies. IMO Bracco isn't one.
exo2769 liked this.
Nov 11 at 2:26
#12
Thread Starter
LGI
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 491
Likes: 109
Quoting: SammyT_51
I mean.. Mike Hoffman made NHL at 24.. he has potential to be solid NHL playmaker. Not good defensively but good playmaker. Not a bottom-6 player for example.


Yeah, I've heard that his play in his own end is non-existent and it really could hold him back but he has good offensive upside and could even have the play-making potential to quarterback a power-play.
Nov 11 at 2:52
#13
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 7,737
Likes: 2,508
Quoting: SammyT_51
A deal around Mayfield probably. Bracco has a lot of NHL level talent. Jeremy Bracco + Joseph Duszak + 3rd round pick for Scott Mayfield + Josh Ho-Sang


Far better chance he ends up the next Petan than the next Zuccarello. His trade value is minimal. Nothing more than secondary or third piece sweetener.
niko and palhal liked this.
Nov 12 at 4:29
#14
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,516
Likes: 479
Quoting: palhal
Virtually zero value in a NHL trade. I don't think he will ever be an NHLer. He might be throw in in a trade for a team that think he has NHL potential. Best wishes to Bracco but he's like hundreds maybe thousands of previous AHLers...Good AHL skills/production but they don't transform into being an NHLer.


Soo ... he's 22 year old with lights out AHL stats ... WHO HAS NEVER PLAYED AN NHL GAME ... and you can confirm that he'll never be effective in the NHL.

Interesting form of clairvoyance you got there.
Nov 12 at 5:32
#15
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 28,589
Likes: 6,581
Quoting: drewjenks
Soo ... he's 22 year old with lights out AHL stats ... WHO HAS NEVER PLAYED AN NHL GAME ... and you can confirm that he'll never be effective in the NHL.

Interesting form of clairvoyance you got there.


I have just as much clairvoyance as anyone of this site....which is zero, except for you. Any objective fan that has followed junior, NCAA or the AHL knows AHL stats mean little. Year after year the top stats guys in the AHL are players who never make it to the NHL. My eyes tell me he will never have an impact in the NHL and might never see more than a handful of NHL games. Even in the this season's preseason, where he played against a mixture of NHLer, AHLers he showed little. As a Leaf fan, I wish Bracco success, I just don't see NHL success. Nice you criticized my opinion but failed to give one for yourself.
Nov 13 at 10:08
#16
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,516
Likes: 479
Quoting: palhal
I have just as much clairvoyance as anyone of this site....which is zero, except for you. Any objective fan that has followed junior, NCAA or the AHL knows AHL stats mean little. Year after year the top stats guys in the AHL are players who never make it to the NHL. My eyes tell me he will never have an impact in the NHL and might never see more than a handful of NHL games. Even in the this season's preseason, where he played against a mixture of NHLer, AHLers he showed little. As a Leaf fan, I wish Bracco success, I just don't see NHL success. Nice you criticized my opinion but failed to give one for yourself.


I was criticizing the certainty of your statements on Bracco's future ...

I personally don't have a definite prediction for him ... but Moore and Timashov were seen in a very similar light 2 years ago.

They both look fine in the NHL ... and they both adapted their game to a bottom 6 role and are playing a more physical this year ... which no one expected.

Bracco is 22 ... I'll only consider him an AHL lifer if he's 24/25 and still in the same position as today.
Nov 13 at 11:10
#17
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 28,589
Likes: 6,581
Quoting: drewjenks
I was criticizing the certainty of your statements on Bracco's future ...

I personally don't have a definite prediction for him ... but Moore and Timashov were seen in a very similar light 2 years ago.

They both look fine in the NHL ... and they both adapted their game to a bottom 6 role and are playing a more physical this year ... which no one expected.

Bracco is 22 ... I'll only consider him an AHL lifer if he's 24/25 and still in the same position as today.


The original post stated "Question for Leaf fans". Obviously nobody can predict the future. I gave my eyeball analysis of Bracco's play/potential. You're right about Timashov. He was more of a perimeter player in the AHL but somehow over the summer has adapted to the tighter spaces he's facing in the NHL. Bracco? We'll have more definitive answer in four years.
 
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