Forums/Armchair-GM

McDavid to Avalanche

Created by: sammy1414
Initial Creation Date: Nov 13, 2019
Published: Nov 13 at 2:29 pm
Team: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers
Trades
EDM
  1. Makar, Cale
  2. MacKinnon, Nathan
COL
  1. McDavid, Connor
  2. Nurse, Darnell
Buyouts
  • Andrej Sekera: $2,500,000
  • Benoit Pouliot: $1,333,333
  • Eric Gryba: $300,000
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Milan Lucic: $750,000 (13%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2020
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
2021
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
PIT
EDM
2022
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$68,201,166$0$4,907,500$13,298,834
Left WingCenterRight Wing
EDM
Nygård, Joakim
$925,000
LW
UFA - 1
EDM
Draisaitl, Leon
$8,500,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 6
COL
MacKinnon, Nathan
$6,300,000
C, RW
UFA - 4
EDM
Neal, James
$5,750,000
RW, LW
UFA - 4
EDM
Nugent-Hopkins, Ryan
$6,000,000
C, LW
UFA - 2
EDM
Kassian, Zack
$1,950,000
RW
UFA - 1
EDM
Sheahan, Riley
$900,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
EDM
Gagner, Sam
$3,150,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
EDM
Chiasson, Alex
$2,150,000
RW
UFA - 2
EDM
Khaira, Jujhar
$1,200,000
C, LW
RFA - 2
EDM
Haas, Gaëtan
$925,000
C
UFA - 1
EDM
Granlund, Markus
$1,300,000
RW, LW, C
UFA - 1
EDM
Archibald, Josh
$1,000,000
RW
UFA - 1
EDM
Russell, Patrick
$700,000
RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
EDM
Klefbom, Oscar
$4,167,000
LD
UFA - 4
EDM
Bear, Ethan
$720,000
RD
RFA - 1
EDM
Koskinen, Mikko
$4,500,000
G
NTC
UFA - 3
COL
Makar, Cale
$880,833
RD
RFA - 2
EDM
Benning, Matthew
$1,900,000
RD
RFA - 1
EDM
Smith, Mike
$2,000,000
G
NTC
UFA - 1
EDM
Russell, Kris
$4,000,000
RD
NMC NTC
UFA - 2
EDM
Persson, Joel
$1,000,000
RD
RFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
EDM
Manning, Brandon
$2,250,000
LD
UFA - 1
EDM
Brodziak, Kyle
$1,150,000
C
UFA - 1
EDM
Larsson, Adam
$4,166,666
RD
UFA - 2
EDM
Mantha, Ryan
$870,000
RD
RFA - 1

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Nov 13 at 2:34
#1
Mikey F.
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 825
Likes: 189
Well, I don't know if the Avs can say yes.
Nov 13 at 2:35
#2
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 119
Likes: 18
We're talking about the best player in the world!
Nov 13 at 2:41
#3
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 203
Likes: 89
Avs probably won't do it though. Sure McDavid is the best player in the trade. But MacKinnon is probably a top 5 player on a great contract and Makar is already really good and will probably become even better in the near future
Nov 13 at 2:42
#4
Burgers and Hockey
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 8,059
Likes: 3,399
I don't think swapping MacKinnon to McDavid would make any difference considering how COL will perform as a team... Both of them are TOP3 Centres in the world...

However, what they shouldn't do is move Makar. He, with Dahlin and Heiskanen, are probably forming the TOP3 of NHL defensemen in the next 5 years...
Nov 13 at 2:43
#5
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
McDavid may be the best player in the world but MacKinnon is easily top 5 and makes half as much against the cap. I'd keep Mackinnon as you get 90% the player at 50% the cap and you get to keep Makar who is scoring a ppg as a rookie defenseman.
Nov 13 at 2:52
#6
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 97
Likes: 33
You all realize they are getting Nurse back right? A solid young defenseman himself who sat at 41 points last year. I dont know how COL can say no to this to be honest. McDavid has 25 less points in 167(!!) less games (with worse linemates) and he is still 2 years younger and he can only get better. If it was McDavid alone for Mackinnon and Makar it would be a little close, but you have McDavid locked up until hes 30 and theres no guarentee that Mackinnon stays when his contract is up, plus however much Makar is going to ask for when he hits FA.
Nov 13 at 3:03
#7
mokumboi
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 768
Likes: 171
The meth is strong in this one.
Nov 13 at 3:10
#8
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 238
Likes: 92
i mean, this value is as close to fair as you're gonna get straight up.
Nov 13 at 3:15
#9
Cale 4 Calder
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,554
Likes: 1,055
No. Avs might get the best player in this deal but MacKinnon and Makar is a much better core to build around. Cost-controlled assets are the key to building great teams
Nov 13 at 3:26
#10
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,951
Likes: 1,263
MacKinnon is locked up for 3.75 years. McDavid is locked up for 7.75 years.

Nurse is poised to sign an 8-year, $50M contract which goes into effect next fall. Makar's next contract comes one year later and will almost certainly be for more money.

So Edmonton gets cap relief for 1 year and much less for years 2, 3 and 4. Then in the back half of this deal MacKinnon + Makar will cost more than McDavid + Nurse. And while I'm fairly certain Makar will be better than Nurse, I KNOW McDavid is better than MacKinnon.

Edmonton says no.
Nov 13 at 4:02
#11
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,643
Likes: 1,669
dear lord no....no no no

McDavid is the best player in the world, but MacKinnon is right there next to him and costs half as much.
Add in the fact Avs are downgrading hard from Makar to Nurse. This is just a disater of a trade for the Avs , no benefit in at all.

Barely get better at Fwd, but get way more expensive and make your D core worse
Nov 13 at 4:04
#12
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,643
Likes: 1,669
Quoting: SlickWilly
You all realize they are getting Nurse back right? A solid young defenseman himself who sat at 41 points last year. I dont know how COL can say no to this to be honest. McDavid has 25 less points in 167(!!) less games (with worse linemates) and he is still 2 years younger and he can only get better. If it was McDavid alone for Mackinnon and Makar it would be a little close, but you have McDavid locked up until hes 30 and theres no guarentee that Mackinnon stays when his contract is up, plus however much Makar is going to ask for when he hits FA.


Makar is a special talent, in his short time in teh NHL he has done things that kids at his age should not be doing. Nurse is fine but hes no where near the top end talent in Makar. McDavid players with Drai or Nuge over the past 2 years....worse linemates? Thats a BS argument. Look at what MacKinnon is still doing without landy and Rants as his wingers. Still elite. The linemate conversation is the laziest talking point anyone can have when talking about either McDavid and MacKinnon. Linemates are irrelevant to one another

How do the avs say no? Its easy, bc its a bad deal for them
Nov 13 at 4:31
#13
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,643
Likes: 1,669
Quoting: sammy1414
We're talking about the best player in the world!


youre an oilers fan, no wonder you think you can get MacK and Makar....yikes
Nov 13 at 5:14
#14
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,951
Likes: 1,263
Quoting: coga16
McDavid is the best player in the world, but MacKinnon is right there next to him and costs half as much.

Barely get better at Fwd


McDavid and MacKinnon aren't close.

Here's Mackinnon's career stats on his 23rd birthday:

374, 114-189-303 0.81 p/gp

McDavid doesn't turn 23 until January, at which time his projected stats are:

334, 154-291-445 1.33 p/gp

Not close. Now lets compare how each player has scored in the past 3.25 years - since the beginning of 2016-17:

McDavid: 262, 123-232-355 1.35 p/gp
MacKinnon: 256, 107-168-275 1.07 p/gp

Even Leon Draisaitl has done better: 262, 119-169-288 1.10 p/gp

***********

Clearly Makar is a better offensive talent than Nurse, but I highly doubt he'll continue scoring at his current pace all season. We still don't know exactly how good he'll be because he only has played 18 NHL games. At that age Nurse had played over 100 and we certainly didn't know what we had then.

And the contracts are only cheaper for the short term, over the long term Mack + Makar will be more expensive as I illustrated above: Makar will get more than Nurse in his next contract and MacKinnon will probably get a similar contract to McDavid in 3 years. McDavid is locked in for 8 at this rate, Nurse will likely get an 8-year deal next summer. All this isn't to say that the trade is fair, it's to say that Edmonton rejects the proposal. I guess you could say we reached the same conclusion but for different reasons.
Nov 13 at 5:33
#15
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,643
Likes: 1,669
Quoting: CD282
McDavid and MacKinnon aren't close.

Here's Mackinnon's career stats on his 23rd birthday:

374, 114-189-303 0.81 p/gp

McDavid doesn't turn 23 until January, at which time his projected stats are:

334, 154-291-445 1.33 p/gp

Not close. Now lets compare how each player has scored in the past 3.25 years - since the beginning of 2016-17:

McDavid: 262, 123-232-355 1.35 p/gp
MacKinnon: 256, 107-168-275 1.07 p/gp

Even Leon Draisaitl has done better: 262, 119-169-288 1.10 p/gp

***********

Clearly Makar is a better offensive talent than Nurse, but I highly doubt he'll continue scoring at his current pace all season. We still don't know exactly how good he'll be because he only has played 18 NHL games. At that age Nurse had played over 100 and we certainly didn't know what we had then.

And the contracts are only cheaper for the short term, over the long term Mack + Makar will be more expensive as I illustrated above: Makar will get more than Nurse in his next contract and MacKinnon will probably get a similar contract to McDavid in 3 years. McDavid is locked in for 8 at this rate, Nurse will likely get an 8-year deal next summer. All this isn't to say that the trade is fair, it's to say that Edmonton rejects the proposal. I guess you could say we reached the same conclusion but for different reasons.


Its about winning a cup now in the next 3 years. MacK and Makar on their current contracts outweighs McDavids current and Nurses next one...this is a cap era, so you are going to have to be purging away from your roster as soon as you re up Nurse. So Avs are going to make a trade to close their cup window before it even starts? Thats why its a terrible trade.

MacKinnon is a 100 point franchise C. 20 more points in McDavid costs double in a cap era....nah not loving that return. The value is in MacKinnons contract and the level of his play is arguably more value than McDavaid bc of the pieces you can add during that length. Also you are exagerating and making false claims on contract lengths to try to make your argument sound stronger....McDavid is 8 more years locked in? No he is a UFA in 6 more years. Ill take Mack for 3 more years than McDavid at 6 and worry about what happens in 2023,

Dude you cant accept that MacKinnon is a top 5 player in this league then I dont know what league you are watching
Nov 13 at 5:47
#16
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,951
Likes: 1,263
Quoting: coga16

Dude you cant accept that MacKinnon is a top 5 player in this league then I dont know what league you are watching


I never made this claim. I said he wasn't as close to McDavid as you think.

0.81 p/gp at the same age as McDavid scoring 1.33 isn't close.
Nov 13 at 6:06
#17
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,643
Likes: 1,669
Edited Nov 13 at 6:14
Quoting: CD282
I never made this claim. I said he wasn't as close to McDavid as you think.

0.81 p/gp at the same age as McDavid scoring 1.33 isn't close.


You are creating your own narrative here, yes Macks PPG is that but that also is bc of his rough ELC years, what he is now vs what he is today are completely different, and its not a flash in the pain 2.25 seasons of dominance, its a real conversation. Also you are taking 374 games randomly so that exudes his rookie season which your total magically starts with worse season, his sophomore season?

Sorry man you are trying to hard to make some magical bracket comparison, which is using mackinnons ELC years to drag down his PPG to compare to mcdavid, this is the definition of creating your own narrative

McDavid is the best player in the world there is no denying that, but the fact you are trying to use macks ELC totals to discredit MacKinnon today and what he has been like stacking up to the best in the world the past 2.25 seasons....dude what are you even doing, if you want to make this arguement compare Mack to McDavid when he enterted into the best in the world conversation, what he did before that is irrelevant.

Mack 174gms 222pts 1.27 ppg
McDavid 180gms 255pts 1.41 ppg

So to my earlier point, is roughly 20 more points worth double the cap hit...no its not
Nov 14 at 7:07
#18
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,951
Likes: 1,263
Quoting: coga16
You are creating your own narrative here, yes Macks PPG is that but that also is bc of his rough ELC years, what he is now vs what he is today are completely different, and its not a flash in the pain 2.25 seasons of dominance, its a real conversation. Also you are taking 374 games randomly so that exudes his rookie season which your total magically starts with worse season, his sophomore season?

Sorry man you are trying to hard to make some magical bracket comparison, which is using mackinnons ELC years to drag down his PPG to compare to mcdavid, this is the definition of creating your own narrative

McDavid is the best player in the world there is no denying that, but the fact you are trying to use macks ELC totals to discredit MacKinnon today and what he has been like stacking up to the best in the world the past 2.25 seasons....dude what are you even doing, if you want to make this arguement compare Mack to McDavid when he enterted into the best in the world conversation, what he did before that is irrelevant.

Mack 174gms 222pts 1.27 ppg
McDavid 180gms 255pts 1.41 ppg

So to my earlier point, is roughly 20 more points worth double the cap hit...no its not


So... you're saying that MacKinnon IN HIS PRIME is not as good as McDavid BEFORE HIS PRIME... got it.
Nov 14 at 9:28
#19
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,643
Likes: 1,669
Quoting: CD282
So... you're saying that MacKinnon IN HIS PRIME is not as good as McDavid BEFORE HIS PRIME... got it.


Are you a simpleton. No one said mackinnon is better than McDavid,

Dear lord Oiler fans might be the worst fan base with how smug you are with McDavid who to this point have wasted and screwed up winning with a generational talent
 
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