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Fire Babock

Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Nov. 15, 2019
Published: Nov. 15, 2019
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Penguins: struggling mid season, fires their coach and replaces him with AHL coach, wins back to back cups
Blues: last place, fires head coach, goes on to win the cup
Bruins: fires coach after back to back playoff misses, turns team into top 5 in the league
What are you waiting for Dubas? Fire Babcock now
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TOR
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      ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
      27$81,500,000$94,814,643$0$202,500-$13,314,643
      Left WingCentreRight Wing
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      $3,400,000$3,400,000
      LW, RW
      UFA - 4
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      $11,634,000$11,634,000
      C
      UFA - 5
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $10,893,000$10,893,000
      RW
      UFA - 6
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $2,250,000$2,250,000
      RW, LW
      M-NTC
      UFA - 2
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $11,000,000$11,000,000
      C, LW
      NMC
      UFA - 6
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $6,962,366$6,962,366
      RW
      UFA - 5
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $925,000$925,000
      LW, RW
      UFA - 1
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $3,500,000$3,500,000
      LW, C, RW
      UFA - 4
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $5,300,000$5,300,000
      RW
      M-NTC, NMC
      UFA - 1
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      $775,000$775,000
      C, LW, RW
      UFA - 2
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $750,000$750,000
      C
      UFA - 1
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $5,250,000$5,250,000
      RW
      M-NTC, NMC
      UFA - 1
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $767,500$767,500 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
      LW, RW
      UFA - 1
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $700,000$700,000
      C, RW
      NTC
      UFA - 1
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $3,200,000$3,200,000
      RW
      UFA - 3
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $694,444$694,444 (Performance Bonus$70,000$70K)
      LW
      UFA - 1
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $675,000$675,000
      C
      UFA - 1
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $775,000$775,000
      LW, RW
      UFA - 2
      Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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      $5,000,000$5,000,000
      LD
      UFA - 3
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $4,500,000$4,500,000
      RD
      UFA - 1
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $5,000,000$5,000,000
      G
      M-NTC
      UFA - 2
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $4,000,000$4,000,000
      LD
      UFA - 1
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $2,750,000$2,750,000
      RD
      UFA - 1
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $675,000$675,000
      G
      UFA - 1
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $863,333$863,333
      LD/RD
      UFA - 1
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $675,000$675,000
      RD
      UFA - 1
      Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
      $700,000$700,000
      LD
      UFA - 1

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      Nov. 15, 2019 at 4:18 p.m.
      #26
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      Quoting: TopLineTom43
      You seem insecure. I didn’t say that. I simply compared a guy who took a team deal to another player on the leafs. I was just having a discussion didn’t mean to upset you. I think the leafs have good players but their massive contracts make it hard to just focus on their play. They have too 5 expectations now. People tend to look at the dollar amount instead of the players ability. If nylander made 4 million I’d certainly would have a different opinion on him. If Matthews scored 100 points and 55 goals I would still think he’s overpaid but I could justify it. If they won a Stanley cup with these players I could justify it.


      I am just tired of all the outdated, poorly thoughtout rhetoric that is just fundamentally wrong. Markets change, players make more. In 3 years when Brayden Point has 3 years of 90+ points or more, how much is he going to get, keep in mind this will be after the upcoming US TV deal and the seattle expansion. Will he be looking at a 8 year deal in the 14 million range? What about Tkachuk in Calgary? That guys QO is 9 million in 3 years, whats he going command in that situation?

      I just think that people don't understand much beyond what they hear on TV and those guys just say whatever they need to to get clicks and views. Its all overblown hot takes that rarely tell the whole story and never look beyond instant gratification.
      Nov. 15, 2019 at 4:22 p.m.
      #27
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      Quoting: TopLineTom43
      Yeah I just don’t like when the face of you franchise signs a massive deal for 5 years to hit FA as a UFA. To me it sends the wrong message. That’s just me though


      That is another accepted truth on here that is just wrong. When Crosby signed his last deal he would have been a FA had he not signed it. But he never was a FA. Should we go down the list of top end players that have never tested free agency? The list is extremely long. Its basically every player over the past 15 years. How many left their teams to test free agency? JT. That is it.

      So what is likely, that Matthews signed a 5 year deal so he could immediately leave? Or did he and Dubas figure out a term and cap hit that worked for the team and they'll just do the same thing when he can sign an extension? Because if we are using the past 15 years to figure out what is likely, this whole Matthews is leaving in 5 years ideal is pure fantasy.
      Nov. 15, 2019 at 4:24 p.m.
      #28
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      Quoting: LoganOllivier
      I can't handle this doom and gloom. The media spins it constantly and people just eat it up. This team could win their next 10 and you'd still have a tonne of people in the media saying they have this problem, or that problem and troll nation will go insane on every post and Leaf fans will panic or go overboard or whatever. Its all too much. The team isn't the worst team in the NHL. And they aren't the best team in the NHL, what they are is one of the most talented teams in the NHL and they aren't playing like it. They have be the best team on the ice for 50 minutes a night but then fall asleep for 10 minutes and just roll over. Earlier in the season that was half the game. So they are getting more consistent but need a full 60 of playing smart. Its not like they need to change a bunch of things. They just need to put it together for the whole game.

      Look at teams with real issues, like Vancouver, they started well and looked great but their bottom 2 lines aren't very good and when the top 2 lines go cold, they lose. How do you fix that? Hope the bottom 6 can somehow get more talented? Or teams with goaltending issues, or a lack of speed, or poor centre depth or whatever. Those are issues that are really hard to fix on the fly, but consistency? That can be corrected rather easily.


      Well, yeah. They could win their next 10 games. They could lose their next 10 games, too. Ebola could break out throughout the NHL and league shuts down. All sorts of things could happen...

      But there's nothing wrong with an honest assessment of the present, especially when circumstances change and expectations aren't being met. I think the leafs have set themselves up well for future success. I also happen to think that they presently look like a non play off team - and their record to fate reflects that. I can think both of these things at the same time without hurting my brain.. smile

      I think we're in good shape, Logan. My expectations, at this moment, aren't very high at all for this season. That's based on what I've seen this year. Those expectations could change if some circumstances change. Im open to that.
      Nov. 15, 2019 at 4:25 p.m.
      #29
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      Quoting: LoganOllivier
      I am just tired of all the outdated, poorly thoughtout rhetoric that is just fundamentally wrong. Markets change, players make more. In 3 years when Brayden Point has 3 years of 90+ points or more, how much is he going to get, keep in mind this will be after the upcoming US TV deal and the seattle expansion. Will he be looking at a 8 year deal in the 14 million range? What about Tkachuk in Calgary? That guys QO is 9 million in 3 years, whats he going command in that situation?

      I just think that people don't understand much beyond what they hear on TV and those guys just say whatever they need to to get clicks and views. Its all overblown hot takes that rarely tell the whole story and never look beyond instant gratification.


      I Mean I understand the business end of it. I really do. The part I don’t understand is that these young guys come in and want to get paid these ridiculous salaries and wonder why their teams arent good. Who would babs want Barrie and kerfoot or kadri? Brown and zait or Ceci. They had to change ..what 1/3 of the roster to adjust to the massive dollars Matthews and Marner are making. It’s just greed but again money puts a roof over your head no Stanley cups.
      Nov. 15, 2019 at 4:29 p.m.
      #30
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      Quoting: TopLineTom43
      I mean they can obviously win but you need to buy into the coaches system and leave your ego at the door. Look at Ovechkin and Trotz. He needed to learn to play defense. Could you imagine if those to couldn’t get on the same page. We won 2 press trophies and a cup In the last 3 years with him. Also when you have guys getting paid that much you need to draft and develop perfectly. No real room for error. Your 1st rounder need to play like it and you get the point. Imo they have draft really well luckily for the leafs


      I keep agreeing with you. With pretty much all of this one, especially the part about players and coaches being kn the same page.

      I actually think this is a pretty big issue in Toronto. And I thinks it gets compounded by the fact that I don't think the coach and the GM are on the same page either. But that's just my take on it..
      TopLineTom43 liked this.
      Nov. 15, 2019 at 4:31 p.m.
      #31
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      Quoting: LoganOllivier
      That is another accepted truth on here that is just wrong. When Crosby signed his last deal he would have been a FA had he not signed it. But he never was a FA. Should we go down the list of top end players that have never tested free agency? The list is extremely long. Its basically every player over the past 15 years. How many left their teams to test free agency? JT. That is it.

      So what is likely, that Matthews signed a 5 year deal so he could immediately leave? Or did he and Dubas figure out a term and cap hit that worked for the team and they'll just do the same thing when he can sign an extension? Because if we are using the past 15 years to figure out what is likely, this whole Matthews is leaving in 5 years ideal is pure fantasy.


      Did Crosby bend the penguins over a barrel for a top 5 salary in the nhl. Bridge deal are great when the come at a low number. Matthews deal is only acceptable for a 10 year deal. That’s impossible so his deal I laughable. It’s too much money with no term at all. So by the time it becomes a good deal he gets a newer bigger deal. Again everyone has an opinion. We have two different ones and that’s fine.
      Nov. 15, 2019 at 4:32 p.m.
      #32
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      Quoting: blowing_the_zone
      Well, yeah. They could win their next 10 games. They could lose their next 10 games, too. Ebola could break out throughout the NHL and league shuts down. All sorts of things could happen...

      But there's nothing wrong with an honest assessment of the present, especially when circumstances change and expectations aren't being met. I think the leafs have set themselves up well for future success. I also happen to think that they presently look like a non play off team - and their record to fate reflects that. I can think both of these things at the same time without hurting my brain.. smile

      I think we're in good shape, Logan. My expectations, at this moment, aren't very high at all for this season. That's based on what I've seen this year. Those expectations could change if some circumstances change. Im open to that.


      My take is that they haven't been good. At the same time, their problems can be fixed. Its a mental thing more than anything else. And that can be fixed and things can change in a hurry. Like what happened to St Louis last year. Not saying that is what TO will do, but I am 100% sure this team is far better than they've shown so far. Which is why I am so annoyed with the doom and gloom. 62 more games to play, its not March and the Leafs aren't 6 points out with 12 games to play and 4 teams to leapfrog. Its November 15th, they Leafs are 4 points out of 1st place in their division and being mentally consistent is the main issue for the team. I don't think all this panic is warranted.
      Nov. 15, 2019 at 4:37 p.m.
      #33
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      Quoting: TopLineTom43
      Did Crosby bend the penguins over a barrel for a top 5 salary in the nhl. Bridge deal are great when the come at a low number. Matthews deal is only acceptable for a 10 year deal. That’s impossible so his deal I laughable. It’s too much money with no term at all. So by the time it becomes a good deal he gets a newer bigger deal. Again everyone has an opinion. We have two different ones and that’s fine.


      Crosby's cap percentage is pretty close to Matthews and Tavares I believe (for when he signed his contract) so that again is a flawed assessment. In 3 years McDavid won't have the richest contract in hockey, it'll be some of these other young guys like Laine, or Point or whoever. They will be making huge dollars and at that time people will be saying, well Matthews is only making 11.7. Which at that time will be a silly comparison because the market changes and salaries grow. I don't buy the whole cap hell situation mainly because TO doesn't have any bad contracts. Not like Boston with Backes, or Laad, or Seabrook, or Erickson or whoever. Lucic is a terrible signing but Matthews? No Matthews will be one of the best goal scorers of his generation. Marner is one of the best play makers in the game and Tavares is a legit top 10 player in the league, that is money well spent. If Kapanen made 5 million that would be a problem. Dubas hasn't and won't be making those sorts of bad calls.
      Nov. 15, 2019 at 4:44 p.m.
      #34
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      Quoting: TopLineTom43
      I Mean I understand the business end of it. I really do. The part I don’t understand is that these young guys come in and want to get paid these ridiculous salaries and wonder why their teams arent good. Who would babs want Barrie and kerfoot or kadri? Brown and zait or Ceci. They had to change ..what 1/3 of the roster to adjust to the massive dollars Matthews and Marner are making. It’s just greed but again money puts a roof over your head no Stanley cups.


      Solid assessment of the current situation. Two things though:

      1) I don't think these kids are wondering why they're struggling at all. They know the implications their salaries have on their teams cap, and what that's meant for the roster. It's why, though, that I wonder if they ever wish they woulda took less. I doubt they do, but I wonder..

      2) I'm a big Kadri fan but I actually think the leafs make that trade all day long. Kerfoot has been super impressive in the 3C role, and doing a better job of it, at a cheaper hit, than Kadri did last year. Losing Kerfoot for an extended period of time is going to sting, methinks..
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      Nov. 15, 2019 at 4:46 p.m.
      #35
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      Quoting: LoganOllivier
      Crosby's cap percentage is pretty close to Matthews and Tavares I believe (for when he signed his contract) so that again is a flawed assessment. In 3 years McDavid won't have the richest contract in hockey, it'll be some of these other young guys like Laine, or Point or whoever. They will be making huge dollars and at that time people will be saying, well Matthews is only making 11.7. Which at that time will be a silly comparison because the market changes and salaries grow. I don't buy the whole cap hell situation mainly because TO doesn't have any bad contracts. Not like Boston with Backes, or Laad, or Seabrook, or Erickson or whoever. Lucic is a terrible signing but Matthews? No Matthews will be one of the best goal scorers of his generation. Marner is one of the best play makers in the game and Tavares is a legit top 10 player in the league, that is money well spent. If Kapanen made 5 million that would be a problem. Dubas hasn't and won't be making those sorts of bad calls.


      Off topic but kind of related...look up the signing on July 1 2016 my god they are terrible. I think the leafs have a ton of talented players and that’s never an issue. They are just signed for More money than I personally think they are worth. Again this is where we disagree but imagine this team with guys signed for this

      Matthews 10m x8
      Marner 9m X 8
      Nylander 7m x8

      Tavares was a UFA and you had to pay him. He’s also been great for them.
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      Nov. 15, 2019 at 4:48 p.m.
      #36
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      Quoting: LoganOllivier
      My take is that they haven't been good. At the same time, their problems can be fixed. Its a mental thing more than anything else. And that can be fixed and things can change in a hurry. Like what happened to St Louis last year. Not saying that is what TO will do, but I am 100% sure this team is far better than they've shown so far. Which is why I am so annoyed with the doom and gloom. 62 more games to play, its not March and the Leafs aren't 6 points out with 12 games to play and 4 teams to leapfrog. Its November 15th, they Leafs are 4 points out of 1st place in their division and being mentally consistent is the main issue for the team. I don't think all this panic is warranted.


      I'm not seeing alot of panic from the fanbase. Maybe a bit of depression and some increased day drinking in order to cope, but other than that alot of the response (outside of the super click bait media knucklehead pieces) seems pretty appropriate to me. I mean, the loudest calls for change are to fire Babcock. That doesn't seem panicky, that seems spot on.
      Nov. 15, 2019 at 4:52 p.m.
      #37
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      Quoting: blowing_the_zone
      Solid assessment of the current situation. Two things though:

      1) I don't think these kids are wondering why they're struggling at all. They know the implications their salaries have on their teams cap, and what that's meant for the roster. It's why, though, that I wonder if they ever wish they woulda took less. I doubt they do, but I wonder..

      2) I'm a big Kadri fan but I actually think the leafs make that trade all day long. Kerfoot has been super impressive in the 3C role, and doing a better job of it, at a cheaper hit, than Kadri did last year. Losing Kerfoot for an extended period of time is going to sting, methinks..


      Only thing I have to say and I honestly don’t watch enough leafs hockey so correct me if I’m wrong. Kadri was that gritty guy you absolutely hate to play against. He was able to be a #2 center used as #3 but he was that guy that you had to have your head up around. Honestly if he played smarter In The playoffs you might have beat Boston. I would rather have him. Guys like him are priceless. I’m a Tom Wilson guy (boooooo) but that type of player is priceless. When he can play all 3 zones and all 3 situations.
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      Nov. 15, 2019 at 4:53 p.m.
      #38
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      Quoting: blowing_the_zone
      Solid assessment of the current situation. Two things though:

      1) I don't think these kids are wondering why they're struggling at all. They know the implications their salaries have on their teams cap, and what that's meant for the roster. It's why, though, that I wonder if they ever wish they woulda took less. I doubt they do, but I wonder..

      2) I'm a big Kadri fan but I actually think the leafs make that trade all day long. Kerfoot has been super impressive in the 3C role, and doing a better job of it, at a cheaper hit, than Kadri did last year. Losing Kerfoot for an extended period of time is going to sting, methinks..


      I am certain that these young guys know exactly why things aren't going perfectly and it has nothing to do with money. It has everything to do with execution. Do you think anyone thinks about money during the game? I don't, I think they think about winning and I think sometimes, they make a mistake and lose focus and it compounds. I think that has a lot to do with them being young and because a 3rd of the team was overhauled in the off season.

      Losing Kerfoot will definitely be a felt but I think Spezza should be adequate to keep the 3rd line afloat. I also don't know how long he's going to be out for, it may not be as long as most think. Depends on whether he needs his jaw wired.
      Nov. 15, 2019 at 4:58 p.m.
      #39
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      Quoting: TopLineTom43
      Off topic but kind of related...look up the signing on July 1 2016 my god they are terrible. I think the leafs have a ton of talented players and that’s never an issue. They are just signed for More money than I personally think they are worth. Again this is where we disagree but imagine this team with guys signed for this

      Matthews 10m x8
      Marner 9m X 8
      Nylander 7m x8

      Tavares was a UFA and you had to pay him. He’s also been great for them.


      Matthews is better than Eichel, Eichel makes 10.5 for 8 years. Matthews was going to get more, he accomplished more and his ceiling is higher. So Matthews was getting over Tavares, no question. To get him to 8 years it was going to be for the same cap percentage that McDavid signed for which at the time Matthews signed, that was going to be over 13.5. So the team came up with a contract that worked for both sides. That is the market we live in. That one is fine.

      Nylander is a bargain, his contract is the best on the team. I don't care what anyone says, he has elite talent and so much untapped potential that his contract will only look better as he progresses.

      Marner on the other hand isn't very good. There is no one on this planet that is going to convince me that Marner is worth over 5 million dollars more a year than Nylander. Marner should be 8 years x9 at the very most.

      If the Leafs end up having to move a piece to balance their roster (I really don't think it'll ever come to that), Marner is the one I'd trade, he'd bring the biggest return and likely save money.
      Nov. 15, 2019 at 5:11 p.m.
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      Quoting: TopLineTom43
      Only thing I have to say and I honestly don’t watch enough leafs hockey so correct me if I’m wrong. Kadri was that gritty guy you absolutely hate to play against. He was able to be a #2 center used as #3 but he was that guy that you had to have your head up around. Honestly if he played smarter In The playoffs you might have beat Boston. I would rather have him. Guys like him are priceless. I’m a Tom Wilson guy (boooooo) but that type of player is priceless. When he can play all 3 zones and all 3 situations.


      Yup, that's who Kadri was for the leafs. The downside last year is that he struggled a bit in 3c role with reduced time and role. For the life of me I can't figure out why we never tried him as at lw with AM and Willy. He's exactly what they need there and for the reasons you point out.

      But if we did that, then we never would have landed Kerfoot, not too mention getting Barrie at 50% cost (even though he's having his struggles to date). Gotta to give to get, I guess. I miss Kadri tons, and I agree that we need more of what he brings, but I'm really impressed with Kerfoot.

      If we ever get a Johnson/Kerfot/Kap line then I think we have one of the best, if not the best, 3rd line in the league. I'd like to see Mikheyev and Johnsson switch lines, although that might not happen just to keep Soupmans contract extension within reach..
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      Nov. 15, 2019 at 5:13 p.m.
      #41
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      Quoting: LoganOllivier
      Matthews is better than Eichel, Eichel makes 10.5 for 8 years. Matthews was going to get more, he accomplished more and his ceiling is higher. So Matthews was getting over Tavares, no question. To get him to 8 years it was going to be for the same cap percentage that McDavid signed for which at the time Matthews signed, that was going to be over 13.5. So the team came up with a contract that worked for both sides. That is the market we live in. That one is fine.

      Nylander is a bargain, his contract is the best on the team. I don't care what anyone says, he has elite talent and so much untapped potential that his contract will only look better as he progresses.

      Marner on the other hand isn't very good. There is no one on this planet that is going to convince me that Marner is worth over 5 million dollars more a year than Nylander. Marner should be 8 years x9 at the very most.

      If the Leafs end up having to move a piece to balance their roster (I really don't think it'll ever come to that), Marner is the one I'd trade, he'd bring the biggest return and likely save money.


      Well Eichel was buffalos only superstar and he was overpaid for that reason. Realistically he would make 8.5-9m. Again the market isn’t set I stone. Matthews should have the wherewithal to understand that Eichel could make more money bc they didn’t have as many talented high caliber players to sign. Matthews then set the bar for Marner who also got overpaid. It’s a slippery slope. And Matthews isn’t worth 13.5 million that’s just silly. He wanted McDavid money but Matthews isn’t even On McDavids level. McDavid is miles better and that’s not an insult. McDavid would compete with Crosby when Crosby was 21. Nylander isn’t a bargain he isn’t overpaid he’s fairly paid. Marner contract would be hard to move imo. You make 11 million you better score 100 points.
      blowing_the_zone liked this.
      Nov. 15, 2019 at 5:17 p.m.
      #42
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      Quoting: blowing_the_zone
      Yup, that's who Kadri was for the leafs. The downside last year is that he struggled a bit in 3c role with reduced time and role. For the life of me I can't figure out why we never tried him as at lw with AM and Willy. He's exactly what they need there and for the reasons you point out.

      But if we did that, then we never would have landed Kerfoot, not too mention getting Barrie at 50% cost (even though he's having his struggles to date). Gotta to give to get, I guess. I miss Kadri tons, and I agree that we need more of what he brings, but I'm really impressed with Kerfoot.

      If we ever get a Johnson/Kerfot/Kap line then I think we have one of the best, if not the best, 3rd line in the league. I'd like to see Mikheyev and Johnsson switch lines, although that might not happen just to keep Soupmans contract extension within reach..


      Also agree about the impact that a guy like Wilson can have on team. The dude is a unicorn, and you gotta hope he stays on the right side of the line, cause otherwise he'll end up ending some guys careers, and cutting his own short. Love him or hate him, you win with guys like him.
      Nov. 15, 2019 at 5:22 p.m.
      #43
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      Quoting: LoganOllivier
      I am certain that these young guys know exactly why things aren't going perfectly and it has nothing to do with money. It has everything to do with execution. Do you think anyone thinks about money during the game? I don't, I think they think about winning and I think sometimes, they make a mistake and lose focus and it compounds. I think that has a lot to do with them being young and because a 3rd of the team was overhauled in the off season.

      Losing Kerfoot will definitely be a felt but I think Spezza should be adequate to keep the 3rd line afloat. I also don't know how long he's going to be out for, it may not be as long as most think. Depends on whether he needs his jaw wired.


      Poor Spez has been healthy scratched for most of the year cause he hasn't been good enough for 4th line rw duties. Looking forward to having Babcock eat some crow when he needs to make him 3c for maybe a couple months. Lol. Babcock
      Nov. 15, 2019 at 5:26 p.m.
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      Quoting: TopLineTom43
      Well Eichel was buffalos only superstar and he was overpaid for that reason. Realistically he would make 8.5-9m. Again the market isn’t set I stone. Matthews should have the wherewithal to understand that Eichel could make more money bc they didn’t have as many talented high caliber players to sign. Matthews then set the bar for Marner who also got overpaid. It’s a slippery slope. And Matthews isn’t worth 13.5 million that’s just silly. He wanted McDavid money but Matthews isn’t even On McDavids level. McDavid is miles better and that’s not an insult. McDavid would compete with Crosby when Crosby was 21. Nylander isn’t a bargain he isn’t overpaid he’s fairly paid. Marner contract would be hard to move imo. You make 11 million you better score 100 points.


      I just don't think they are overpaid. I think when you have a terrific young star you need to look at what they are going to do in the next couple of years and try to get a fair deal for that time. For years teams have been operating under the premise that you have to earn those big contracts, so stars did great for their first 10 years (Doughty) and then they sign their big long term max deal. The problem is those players are getting paid for what they did, not what they can do. What TO is doing is paying these guys for what they think they are going to be able to do. Its risky sure, but its also a much smarter plan than to wait and then overpay them later when they can't live up to their contract. In the case of Marner, I think he'll still look like a good contract very soon, and then when these guys are older there won't be that argument of "Hey I took my pay cut back then, now I want my money". It also will give more power to the management team later on when they can say to Marner when he's turning 29 or whatever and needing a new contract, "listen Mitch, we know you've been great for the past 6 years and we want to continue this, so we'll give you either term or a big cap hit. Not both." There will be mountains more of evidence proving that paying guys huge money into their mid 30's is stupid so they'll either get short term deals again or long term at below their market value.
      Nov. 15, 2019 at 5:27 p.m.
      #45
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      Quoting: TopLineTom43
      Well Eichel was buffalos only superstar and he was overpaid for that reason. Realistically he would make 8.5-9m. Again the market isn’t set I stone. Matthews should have the wherewithal to understand that Eichel could make more money bc they didn’t have as many talented high caliber players to sign. Matthews then set the bar for Marner who also got overpaid. It’s a slippery slope. And Matthews isn’t worth 13.5 million that’s just silly. He wanted McDavid money but Matthews isn’t even On McDavids level. McDavid is miles better and that’s not an insult. McDavid would compete with Crosby when Crosby was 21. Nylander isn’t a bargain he isn’t overpaid he’s fairly paid. Marner contract would be hard to move imo. You make 11 million you better score 100 points.
      Quoting: blowing_the_zone
      Poor Spez has been healthy scratched for most of the year cause he hasn't been good enough for 4th line rw duties. Looking forward to having Babcock eat some crow when he needs to make him 3c for maybe a couple months. Lol. Babcock


      I'd really like to see Petan get an extended look on RW with Tavares and then Spezza with Kap and Mik. But Babs won't do it.
      Nov. 15, 2019 at 5:32 p.m.
      #46
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      Quoting: LoganOllivier
      I'd really like to see Petan get an extended look on RW with Tavares and then Spezza with Kap and Mik. But Babs won't do it.


      Ah man, there's a ton of options. But I doubt we see much experimentation.. cause "reasons" .. and steady on the rudder
      Nov. 15, 2019 at 5:34 p.m.
      #47
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      Quoting: TopLineTom43
      Well Eichel was buffalos only superstar and he was overpaid for that reason. Realistically he would make 8.5-9m. Again the market isn’t set I stone. Matthews should have the wherewithal to understand that Eichel could make more money bc they didn’t have as many talented high caliber players to sign. Matthews then set the bar for Marner who also got overpaid. It’s a slippery slope. And Matthews isn’t worth 13.5 million that’s just silly. He wanted McDavid money but Matthews isn’t even On McDavids level. McDavid is miles better and that’s not an insult. McDavid would compete with Crosby when Crosby was 21. Nylander isn’t a bargain he isn’t overpaid he’s fairly paid. Marner contract would be hard to move imo. You make 11 million you better score 100 points.


      All these rational takes are killing me. This isn't the place for this nonsense
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      Nov. 15, 2019 at 5:45 p.m.
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      Quoting: blowing_the_zone
      All these rational takes are killing me. This isn't the place for this nonsense


      Haha Kuznetsov is better than Matthews!!!!!! Is this what you want?
      blowing_the_zone liked this.
      Nov. 15, 2019 at 5:48 p.m.
      #49
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      Quoting: LoganOllivier
      I just don't think they are overpaid. I think when you have a terrific young star you need to look at what they are going to do in the next couple of years and try to get a fair deal for that time. For years teams have been operating under the premise that you have to earn those big contracts, so stars did great for their first 10 years (Doughty) and then they sign their big long term max deal. The problem is those players are getting paid for what they did, not what they can do. What TO is doing is paying these guys for what they think they are going to be able to do. Its risky sure, but its also a much smarter plan than to wait and then overpay them later when they can't live up to their contract. In the case of Marner, I think he'll still look like a good contract very soon, and then when these guys are older there won't be that argument of "Hey I took my pay cut back then, now I want my money". It also will give more power to the management team later on when they can say to Marner when he's turning 29 or whatever and needing a new contract, "listen Mitch, we know you've been great for the past 6 years and we want to continue this, so we'll give you either term or a big cap hit. Not both." There will be mountains more of evidence proving that paying guys huge money into their mid 30's is stupid so they'll either get short term deals again or long term at below their market value.


      I don’t disagree that most ufa signing from ages 28 and up are all normally terrible but at that point I would be more willing to pay you for what you did than to pay you for what I think you’ll do. Like Kane and Toews. Them signing for cheap allowed them to win a cup. The deals aren’t good now but who cares they won 3 cup. I don’t think either of our opinions are wrong I just prefer to pay you after you have done good.
      Nov. 15, 2019 at 5:52 p.m.
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      Quoting: TopLineTom43
      Haha Kuznetsov is better than Matthews!!!!!! Is this what you want?


      There. That's better! Now we're back to the normal rythym of things smile
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