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this coach and this team

Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Nov. 15, 2019
Published: Nov. 15, 2019
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Why is this moron still employed? Glad to see the rebuild completely fail #firebabcock
Trades
1.
TOR
CBJ
    Mike Babcock blasted into the sun
    2.
    TOR
    1. Vatanen, Sami ($2,437,500 retained)
    NJD
    1. Bracco, Jeremy
    2. Ceci, Cody
    3. 2020 2nd round pick (TOR)
    4. 2021 3rd round pick (TOR)
    Additional Details:
    Conditional 3rd - upgrades to a second if the Leafs either resign Vatanen or make the cup final (yeah right
    Retained Salary Transactions
    DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
    2020
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    2021
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    2022
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    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    25$81,500,000$79,764,643$0$202,500$1,735,357
    Left WingCentreRight Wing
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    $3,400,000$3,400,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 4
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    $11,634,000$11,634,000
    C
    UFA - 5
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    $10,893,000$10,893,000
    RW
    UFA - 6
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    $2,250,000$2,250,000
    RW, LW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
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    $11,000,000$11,000,000
    C, LW
    NMC
    UFA - 6
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    $6,962,366$6,962,366
    RW
    UFA - 5
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $925,000$925,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $3,500,000$3,500,000
    LW, C, RW
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $775,000$775,000
    C, LW, RW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $750,000$750,000
    C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $767,500$767,500 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
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    $700,000$700,000
    C, RW
    NTC
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $3,200,000$3,200,000
    RW
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $694,444$694,444 (Performance Bonus$70,000$70K)
    LW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $675,000$675,000
    C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $775,000$775,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 2
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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    $5,000,000$5,000,000
    LD
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $0$0
    LD/RD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $5,000,000$5,000,000
    G
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $4,000,000$4,000,000
    LD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $2,750,000$2,750,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $675,000$675,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $863,333$863,333
    LD/RD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $675,000$675,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $700,000$700,000
    LD
    UFA - 1
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
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    $5,250,000$5,250,000
    RW
    M-NTC, NMC
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $5,300,000$5,300,000
    RW
    M-NTC, NMC
    UFA - 1

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    Nov. 15, 2019 at 10:01 p.m.
    #1
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    maybe its the team...
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 10:02 p.m.
    #2
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    Quoting: HeadHunter
    maybe its the team...


    The team isn't the one putting out the 4th line when trailing with less than 5 minutes
    TMLSage liked this.
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 10:03 p.m.
    #3
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    Very good idea to get someone with meh/bad defensive metrics when your blue line is already subpar defensively.
    Copenhagen liked this.
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 10:03 p.m.
    #4
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    Quoting: TheresAlwaysNextYear
    The team isn't the one putting out the 4th line when trailing with less than 5 minutes


    the team shouldnt be down in the last 5 minutes in the 1st place
    TMLSage liked this.
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 10:06 p.m.
    #5
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    Quoting: HeadHunter
    the team shouldnt be down in the last 5 minutes in the 1st place


    Right, but you can expect to see it happen and you should do everything to tie the game
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    Nov. 15, 2019 at 10:06 p.m.
    #6
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    Hes definitely not a moron, but hes obviously not a fit. I think he will be fired early December unless the leafs really turn it around soon and i think he will get hired by Chicago soon after. Babcock has spoken highly of Toews and Kane in the past and seems like a decent fit there
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 10:16 p.m.
    #7
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    You can start cheering for Oilers, I think half of Edmonton cheers for the crappy leafs by looking at the arena when leafs play here
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 10:24 p.m.
    #8
    I put math in hockey
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    Friendly reminder that this team is missing the best playdriver on its 2nd line (Hyman) and that its most recent loss was to a Boston team that has a pretty solid argument as the best team in the NHL. Tonight's loss was not that bad.

    There is a lot to be said that the Leafs are shooting WAY too much from the point and other low-danger areas. It's a new tendency this year, and it's been an issue for them. They also hired Dave Hakstol this year, and that was a staple of his flyers teams in years past (Philly has also made a massive jump from last year despite a similar roster). Conclusion: fire Dave Hakstol directly into Boston's bench and pray he screws up the Death Incarnate line.
    blowing_the_zone liked this.
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 10:24 p.m.
    #9
    LongtimeLeafsufferer
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    My biggest complaint about Babcock has been his game management. Tonight: Without entry into the zone, Babcock pulled Andersson with 2 minutes. Leafs were also playing against the top five Bruins.
    Couldn't the Leafs just waited a big longer...hopefully getting a face-off in the Bruin zone before pulling the goalie, or at least have an organized rush up the ice. Gee maybe you get a face-off and the Bruins hae to take rest Bergeron and Chara and friends.
    No Babcock is stuck on his two minute rule....that's when I pull the goalie regardless.
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    Nov. 15, 2019 at 10:28 p.m.
    #10
    I put math in hockey
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    Quoting: palhal
    My biggest complaint about Babcock has been his game management. Tonight: Without entry into the zone, Babcock pulled Andersson with 2 minutes. Leafs were also playing against the top five Bruins.
    Couldn't the Leafs just waited a big longer...hopefully getting a face-off in the Bruin zone before pulling the goalie, or at least have an organized rush up the ice. Gee maybe you get a face-off and the Bruins hae to take rest Bergeron and Chara and friends.
    No Babcock is stuck on his two minute rule....that's when I pull the goalie regardless.


    At that point, pulling the goalie is pretty much always right because of how hard it is to score (especially with Boston riding possibly the best defensive forward of all time for a chunk of those minutes). Yeah, it almost certainly leads to a GA, but the game's an almost certain loss anyway so the GA doesn't really change anything.

    The main argument for not pulling your goalie is that going to 4F/1D when trailing with like 10 minutes left in the 3rd (or earlier) could do the same job but better, but nobody does that at the NHL or AHL levels that I know of.
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 10:35 p.m.
    #11
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    Quoting: The_Ultimate_Pielord
    At that point, pulling the goalie is pretty much always right because of how hard it is to score (especially with Boston riding possibly the best defensive forward of all time for a chunk of those minutes). Yeah, it almost certainly leads to a GA, but the game's an almost certain loss anyway so the GA doesn't really change anything.

    The main argument for not pulling your goalie is that going to 4F/1D when trailing with like 10 minutes left in the 3rd (or earlier) could do the same job but better, but nobody does that at the NHL or AHL levels that I know of.


    I just think the Leafs should have a face-off in the offensive zone or at least rushing up the ice with numbers. It's coaching strategy 101, You just don't pulled goalie with 2 minutes left, because this is how I do things.
    Gee, odds are the Leafs wouldn't have scored anyway. But Babcock doesn't seem to have handle on what is going on in the game he is suppose to be coaching. He is a horrid head coach, should not be allowed in the building on game day. PS. many of the Leafs are playing poorly also.
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 10:41 p.m.
    #12
    GM - Canucks
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    I am actually getting tired of watching the Leafs play hockey under the direction of Mike Babcock. There is something serious wrong with this team and I think the players are being micro-managed like puppets by their coach to the point that they are not having fun and have lost confidence on the ice.

    What is worst than watching the Leafs losing is listening to Babcock after each game and his explanations and and his inflated ego. Shanahan and Dubas need to free the Leafs from Babcock and move him upstairs and hire Sheldon Keefe.
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 10:52 p.m.
    #13
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    Another alternative option for the Leafs coaching job could be Mike Commodore who also seems to have had some serious issues with Babcock during his playing career. My guess is that the current Leafs players might really rally around Commodore if he became the next Leafs coach.
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 10:59 p.m.
    #14
    I put math in hockey
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    Quoting: palhal
    I just think the Leafs should have a face-off in the offensive zone or at least rushing up the ice with numbers. It's coaching strategy 101, You just don't pulled goalie with 2 minutes left, because this is how I do things.
    Gee, odds are the Leafs wouldn't have scored anyway. But Babcock doesn't seem to have handle on what is going on in the game he is suppose to be coaching. He is a horrid head coach, should not be allowed in the building on game day. PS. many of the Leafs are playing poorly also.


    The bottom-6 has been fine, the 2nd line only has one good playdriver until Hyman comes back (Marner wasn't worth 10 mil and probably should have been auto-trade at 9 mil). There is a major systemic difference, but IMO it's best solved by firing Hakstol and praying he stays in the Atlantic.

    In the last 2 minutes of a game you're trailing a GA has basically no impact on the odds of winning, so you may as well pull unless the situation is ridiculously stacked against you. This is especially true against teams that are hard to score on. May as well pull the goalie, even if it's not an ideal situation (also entirely possible that a better one wouldn't have presented itself).
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 11:04 p.m.
    #15
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    Quoting: TMLSage
    I am actually getting tired of watching the Leafs play hockey under the direction of Mike Babcock. There is something serious wrong with this team and I think the players are being micro-managed like puppets by their coach to the point that they are not having fun and have lost confidence on the ice.

    What is worst than watching the Leafs losing is listening to Babcock after each game and his explanations and and his inflated ego. Shanahan and Dubas need to free the Leafs from Babcock and move him upstairs and hire Sheldon Keefe.


    Quoting: TMLSage
    I am actually getting tired of watching the Leafs play hockey under the direction of Mike Babcock. There is something serious wrong with this team and I think the players are being micro-managed like puppets by their coach to the point that they are not having fun and have lost confidence on the ice.

    What is worst than watching the Leafs losing is listening to Babcock after each game and his explanations and and his inflated ego. Shanahan and Dubas need to free the Leafs from Babcock and move him upstairs and hire Sheldon Keefe.


    No, just fire him an don't allow him any contact with the Leafs as an employee. He's poison. Keefe should be Leaf coach....not sure I want him into this fiasco this year though. But Babcock should be gone immmediately. I just don't know what Shanahan is doing as Leaf President. First allowing Babcock to continue be the Leafs coach and letting Dubas (and the Leafs) getting burned in their RFAs signings.
    Maybe Shanahan is happy just getting his new contract and now he can just rest and just wait to be fired.
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    Nov. 15, 2019 at 11:06 p.m.
    #16
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    Quoting: TMLSage
    I am actually getting tired of watching the Leafs play hockey under the direction of Mike Babcock. There is something serious wrong with this team and I think the players are being micro-managed like puppets by their coach to the point that they are not having fun and have lost confidence on the ice.

    What is worst than watching the Leafs losing is listening to Babcock after each game and his explanations and and his inflated ego. Shanahan and Dubas need to free the Leafs from Babcock and move him upstairs and hire Sheldon Keefe.


    What specific players would you say have been most affected by this and how specifically has it altered their play?

    Quoting: TMLSage
    Another alternative option for the Leafs coaching job could be Mike Commodore who also seems to have had some serious issues with Babcock during his playing career. My guess is that the current Leafs players might really rally around Commodore if he became the next Leafs coach.


    Has Mike Commodore coached at any level before?1
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 11:12 p.m.
    #17
    torontos finest
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    It's 100% a mentality issue, and that falls on the coaching staff.
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 11:13 p.m.
    #18
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    Quoting: palhal
    No, just fire him an don't allow him any contact with the Leafs as an employee. He's poison. Keefe should be Leaf coach....not sure I want him into this fiasco this year though. But Babcock should be gone immmediately. I just don't know what Shanahan is doing as Leaf President. First allowing Babcock to continue be the Leafs coach and letting Dubas (and the Leafs) getting burned in their RFAs signings.
    Maybe Shanahan is happy just getting his new contract and now he can just rest and just wait to be fired.


    IMO it's tough to evaluate RFA deals from an outside perspective. If the org was determined to fulfill the "we can and we will" promise then the negotiations suddenly become a lot harder. They probably should've just dealt Marner after he refused to take Nylander's deal, but there would've been a TON of backlash. Marner's camp played that negotiation really well. Losing some term on Matthews bites but it's not the end of the world, either the cap jumps and helps accommodate a new deal or it doesn't and the new deal's at a similar hit. And Kyle's been very good at getting good depth guys on cheap deals, which cancels it out a little bit. The only real cap casualty was Gardiner, but a) it's unclear whether Gards was willing to return to Toronto at all and b) the only real way to keep him at 6 mil (IIRC that was the rumoured montreal offer) would be mitch at 2 mil less than he got or no Mitch at all. Dunno how possible either was for Dubas.
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 11:15 p.m.
    #19
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    Quoting: mondo
    It's 100% a mentality issue, and that falls on the coaching staff.


    What specific things are the Leafs doing differently from last year that can be directly attributed to mentality?

    Let's be careful about falling into empty clichés here. Does the mentality result in fewer passes/rushes into the slot? Less standing up at the blueline? Less activity in the NZ? Be specific!
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 11:17 p.m.
    #20
    torontos finest
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    Quoting: The_Ultimate_Pielord
    What specific things are the Leafs doing differently from last year that can be directly attributed to mentality?

    Let's be careful about falling into empty clichés here. Does the mentality result in fewer passes/rushes into the slot? Less standing up at the blueline? Less activity in the NZ? Be specific!


    for one they are not playing good, whereas last year they were playing good
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 11:25 p.m.
    #21
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    Quoting: mondo
    for one they are not playing good, whereas last year they were playing good


    There's a lot of reasons that explain not playing as good. They lost a couple really good players in Gardiner and Kadri. Tavares hasn't been fully healthy, Hyman's been hurt. They hired a bad assistant who seems to have had a significant influence. The goaltenders have struggled because goalies just be like that. The good assistant who helped run the power play is gone. Why isn't it a combination of these?
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 11:33 p.m.
    #22
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    Quoting: The_Ultimate_Pielord
    IMO it's tough to evaluate RFA deals from an outside perspective. If the org was determined to fulfill the "we can and we will" promise then the negotiations suddenly become a lot harder. They probably should've just dealt Marner after he refused to take Nylander's deal, but there would've been a TON of backlash. Marner's camp played that negotiation really well. Losing some term on Matthews bites but it's not the end of the world, either the cap jumps and helps accommodate a new deal or it doesn't and the new deal's at a similar hit. And Kyle's been very good at getting good depth guys on cheap deals, which cancels it out a little bit. The only real cap casualty was Gardiner, but a) it's unclear whether Gards was willing to return to Toronto at all and b) the only real way to keep him at 6 mil (IIRC that was the rumoured montreal offer) would be mitch at 2 mil less than he got or no Mitch at all. Dunno how possible either was for Dubas.


    It started with Nylander. In what world was he entitled to 7m X 6? Larkin had signed in August at 6.15m X 5. Nylander really had no leverage...he was RFA. Leafs were on 120 point pace on November 30 BEFORE Nylander signed his extension. No the Leafs should have held firm and if Nylander didn't sign with the Leafs (what were his options) so be it.
    What a joke to think Matthews is worth to be paid the second highest paid player in the league, especially on a mid length term contract. What other teams would have offered more.
    Marner. Aho and Marner had identical stats in the past two seasons. Aho 8.5m X5. What is the justification of a 11m Marner? Sorry there is none.
    Not that overpaying these guys by 4.5m isn't crippling. But geez it has caused the Leafs not having cap to spend elsewhere. I'm sure other Leafs players are pissed the big 3 got so much. It squeezes them their deals or at least it hampers the Leafs acquiring needed players due to cap restraints.
    I wish folks would look at the entire news conference on the "we can and we will". It certainly didn't have to mean that the Leafs would have to sign and retain these players. I just can't understand why fans belleve anything a coach, manager or player says in front a microphone. What they is just for public consumption....it's meaningless.
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 11:34 p.m.
    #23
    torontos finest
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    Quoting: The_Ultimate_Pielord
    There's a lot of reasons that explain not playing as good. They lost a couple really good players in Gardiner and Kadri. Tavares hasn't been fully healthy, Hyman's been hurt. They hired a bad assistant who seems to have had a significant influence. The goaltenders have struggled because goalies just be like that. The good assistant who helped run the power play is gone. Why isn't it a combination of these?


    yes, there are a number of reasons why toronto hasn't been great on the ice. doesn't overcoming these challenges fall on the coach? toronto has played a ton of games this season where they don't look like a team that's motivated to win. i'm guessing that babcock has lost the room.
    Nov. 15, 2019 at 11:37 p.m.
    #24
    GM - Canucks
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    Quoting: The_Ultimate_Pielord
    What specific players would you say have been most affected by this and how specifically has it altered their play?

    1. Barrie - Has been most affected by this as his point production dropped off the cliff by Babcock not properly untilizing him on PP and discouraging his offensive abilities on 5X5.
    2. Hutchinson - Was affected by Babcock back-up assignments as always played on second game of back to back regardless of the opponent and then not exactly providing support to him in post game interviews.
    3. Spezza - Was affected by Babcock mind games like not playing him in first game in Ottawa or putting him one of the last shooters in lengthly shoot out a couple of weeks ago.
    4. Petan - Affected in he knows Babcock does not want him in line-up.
    5. Kapanan - Affected in does not seem to have a defined role on a specific line.

    Babcock also has had a negative effect on a number of other Leafs players from prior years which you are probably aware of.

    Has Mike Commodore coached at any level before?1


    Do not know.
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    Nov. 15, 2019 at 11:44 p.m.
    #25
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    Quoting: palhal
    It started with Nylander. In what world was he entitled to 7m X 6? Larkin had signed in August at 6.15m X 5. Nylander really had no leverage...he was RFA. Leafs were on 120 point pace on November 30 BEFORE Nylander signed his extension. No the Leafs should have held firm and if Nylander didn't sign with the Leafs (what were his options) so be it.
    What a joke to think Matthews is worth to be paid the second highest paid player in the league, especially on a mid length term contract. What other teams would have offered more.
    Marner. Aho and Marner had identical stats in the past two seasons. Aho 8.5m X5. What is the justification of a 11m Marner? Sorry there is none.
    Not that overpaying these guys by 4.5m isn't crippling. But geez it has caused the Leafs not having cap to spend elsewhere. I'm sure other Leafs players are pissed the big 3 got so much. It squeezes them their deals or at least it hampers the Leafs acquiring needed players due to cap restraints.
    I wish folks would look at the entire news conference on the "we can and we will". It certainly didn't have to mean that the Leafs would have to sign and retain these players. I just can't understand why fans belleve anything a coach, manager or player says in front a microphone. What they is just for public consumption....it's meaningless.


    Thing is, a lot of the comps were on deals that were really team-friendly. Larkin was and is worth a lot more than 6 x 5, Aho probably a chunk more than 8.5 by 5 (IMO that was arguably the best team value of the last RFA class, which is hilarious given that it was a matched offersheet). They are all relative overpays, but Toronto wasn't going to take a swing at Boston without Nylander and it does seem like fan reaction was part of the thinking on Marner.

    Credit to the agents of the Leafs RFAs, they've done well for their clients. Part of that's on how the org set itself up, but the PR for the RFAs has been good too, Matthews being set up as the Ovie to McD's Crosby, Marner hailed as the team's best player after a good year on the powerplay. They've made themselves tough to avoid overpaying.
     
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