Trade Marner

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Quoting: MikeyThePensFan

Dubas is getting desperate at this point. If he isn't going to fire Babcock, then he has to explore trading Marner. Also, after overpaying him by roughly 1.5-2 million in the offseason, he lost the chance to get full value for his player in a trade.

I doubt very much that Dubas is getting desperate. It doesn't even sound like it's his decision if Babcock stays or goes. That sits with Shanahan. It also sounds like he wanted him gone after last years 1st round loss. Why would Dubas make a trade to help Babcock out if Dubas sees him as the problem? I can't say if that Dubas's take on things, but anyone at arms length of the leafs should be able to see by now that Babcock is a big part of the problem.

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Nov. 17, 2019 at 6:21 p.m.

#27

oilnate

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Quoting: MikeyThePensFan

If Marner signed for 8 million dollars a year on the maximum term, then the Leaf fans wouldn't hate him as much.

Leafs fans hate just to hate

Nov. 17, 2019 at 6:23 p.m.

#28

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Quoting: MikeyThePensFan

I hope you are well. However, most Leaf fans want Marner gone since they believe he is overpaid plus Nylander is far better than him. Send him to PIT.

Thanks for the nod. Doing much better each day

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Nov. 17, 2019 at 6:27 p.m.

#29

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Quoting: blowing_the_zone

I don't disagree. The team Dubas is building contradicts with the way Babcock wants to play. Babcock wants a heavy grinder style that waits for opponents to mess up. Today’s NHL is attacking with north south speed and d men pinching. His style is late 90s early 00s western conference heavyweight style. That said, if it's not his decision to fire Babcock, and if he can't make that decision, he has to make moves that are going fulfill his wishes.

Nov. 17, 2019 at 6:27 p.m.

#30

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Quoting: oilnate

Leafs fans hate just to hate

Some people say that Leafs fans are the worst.

Nov. 17, 2019 at 6:30 p.m.

#31

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Quoting: MikeyThePensFan

Well, not really. He can stand pat, and just give babs lots of rope and allow him to coach his way out of this mess. If Babcock can't do it then he's hung himself with his own decisions.

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Nov. 17, 2019 at 6:47 p.m.

#32

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hahaha marner for Brett pesce u have got to be kidding... you have ZERO evidence that nobody on the team likes Marner, in fact I have total opposite evidence- he is matthews' best friend on the team! You don't trade a guy who scored 94 points last year for Brett pesce... I actually am one of the few leafs fans who thinks that Marner is the 4th best leaf and 5th most valuable TO THE TEAM (not on open markets) behind Matthews, Tavares, rielly, and Andersen, but in terms of trade value he's at #2 or #3. I'm not his biggest fan per say, but he's damn good- 21 year olds who score 94 points don't exactly grow on trees, but most teams have a defenceman of pesce's calibre, and AT LEAST 90% of teams have a defenceman who's better. Fire Babcock, trade for a decent defensive RHD that can be fetched with no more than kapanen+picks/prospects, pickup a somewhat reliable backup goalie, and if you really want to trade marner, get someone of his value (or greater) back instead of this s**t

Nov. 17, 2019 at 7:57 p.m.

#33

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Quoting: blowing_the_zone

Well, not really. He can stand pat, and just give babs lots of rope and allow him to coach his way out of this mess. If Babcock can't do it then he's hung himself with his own decisions.

I mean there's going to be pressure on Dubas to make a move. If he stands pat, he could get fired as well.

Nov. 17, 2019 at 7:59 p.m.

#34

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Quoting: leafs101

I don't see anything wrong with the trade I proposed. Leafs are getting a top 4 defenseman and a top 6 winger plus a 1st round pick. It's not realistic to get someone like Victor Hedman for him.

Nov. 17, 2019 at 8:06 p.m.

#35

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Edited Nov. 17, 2019 at 8:17 p.m.

Quoting: MikeyThePensFan

I mean there's going to be pressure on Dubas to make a move. If he stands pat, he could get fired as well.

Maybe. But right now pretty much all the pressure is on Babcock. Once he's gone then the gun gets pointed at Dubas. For the time being his safest bet is to just ride out this roster. If he makes a trade and he loses it and things don't improve the pressure shifts to Dubas and he let's Babs off the hook.

Babcock has all sorts of credentials and a pretty stacked roster on paper. Let him adapt and coach his way out of this mess. It's why he gets the big bucks as the highest paid coach. If he can't do it, can him.

And then the pressure goes to Dubas if a second coach can't get better results with his roster. It's not like Babcock can, or Shanahan will, force Dubas to make a trade. He just turned over a 3rd of the roster this offseason. How many trades is he supposed to make?

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Nov. 17, 2019 at 11:02 p.m.

#36

Shylo_Moxii

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Quoting: MikeyThePensFan

Honestly, I think you have some sort of hate towards Mitch Marner because that's not true at all. He doesn't just shoot the puck to random areas and waits for his teammates to fetch him points. Marner is actually pretty involved in the play, he's usually carrying the puck, protecting it away from opponents and generating space to make a play. That's what he does. He's not as good as most people think, but he's not that bad either.

True or not his CF stats without JT are appalling. And with isn’t spectacular either.

Nov. 18, 2019 at 10:15 a.m.

#37

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Quoting: MikeyThePensFan

I don't see anything wrong with the trade I proposed. Leafs are getting a top 4 defenseman and a top 6 winger plus a 1st round pick. It's not realistic to get someone like Victor Hedman for him.

never said hedman. you don't move young superstars without getting young superstars back...

Nov. 19, 2019 at 11:04 a.m.

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Quoting: BeastModeUnknown

True or not his CF stats without JT are appalling. And with isn’t spectacular either.

Well, that was for last season only. In 2017/18, he had around 52% for corsi fenwick stats and that season he played with Kadri. This season, it's 53% and he played a good portion without Tavares while getting a lot of defensive zone starts and facing top matchup minutes. Considering how bad the Leafs have been as a team this season, that's really not that atrocious. I think you prefer advanced stats over the eye test, and you cherry pick specific stats from a specific period to bash a player you don't like.

Nov. 19, 2019 at 11:07 a.m.

#39

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Nov. 19, 2019 at 12:36 p.m.

#40

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Quoting: leafs101

never said hedman. you don't move young superstars without getting young superstars back...

But usually when you trade Marner, you are looking for a first line winger or a top pair defenseman. That's not a realistic return.

Nov. 19, 2019 at 12:37 p.m.

#41

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Quoting: blowing_the_zone

You're right about Babs, a coach with his achievement and salary should be expected of much more with this team. However, many people believe Dubas was wrong for signing Tavares, Nylander, Matthews and Marner, as well as trading for Barrie. What'd you think?

Nov. 19, 2019 at 12:45 p.m.

#42

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Quoting: MikeyThePensFan

But usually when you trade Marner, you are looking for a first line winger or a top pair defenseman. That's not a realistic return.

it absolutely is. and if nobody offers it, you don't take it. Marner scored 94 POINTS as a 21 year old winger. That isn't exactly common

Nov. 19, 2019 at 5:44 p.m.

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Quoting: BeastModeUnknown

True or not his CF stats without JT are appalling. And with isn’t spectacular either.

Question for you, what player category would you put Marner in? Would he be:

A.) Top Line Winger
B.) Second Line Winger
C.) Depth Forward
D.) AHL Caliber Player
E.) ECHL Level Player
F.) Shouldn't Be Playing Pro Hockey

Nov. 19, 2019 at 5:47 p.m.

#44

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Quoting: leafs101

it absolutely is. and if nobody offers it, you don't take it. Marner scored 94 POINTS as a 21 year old winger. That isn't exactly common

Marner is a fantastic player, however his contract plays a huge factor. If he was making 9-10 million a season, I still see it as realistic that teams would be willing to offer a top line player or defenseman in exchange. But 11 million or more, not a chance. His value dropped significantly over the summer. At best, he can get you a top 4 defenseman (I.e Schultz) or a top 6 forward with the potential to being a top line contributor (I.E Galchenyuk).

Nov. 19, 2019 at 6:07 p.m.

#45

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Quoting: MikeyThePensFan

A. 94 points. Scored at an insane pace for the back half of the season before we got Tavares and hasn't stopped since. He's a top 8-15 winger in the NHL

Nov. 19, 2019 at 9:14 p.m.

#46

Shylo_Moxii

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Quoting: MikeyThePensFan

2nd Line without Tavares Top Line with out of the pure aspect he doesn’t bring Tavares down he gets carried better than being a liability even tho he is on defense.

Nov. 20, 2019 at 8:53 a.m.

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Quoting: BeastModeUnknown

2nd Line without Tavares Top Line with out of the pure aspect he doesn’t bring Tavares down he gets carried better than being a liability even tho he is on defense.

Marner has made a fair share of strong defensive plays throughout the last 2 seasons, as he has made some embarrassing ones. I thought you were going to vote for AHL caliber player.

Nov. 20, 2019 at 8:54 a.m.

#48

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Quoting: leafs101

A. 94 points. Scored at an insane pace for the back half of the season before we got Tavares and hasn't stopped since. He's a top 8-15 winger in the NHL

Yes Marner got 36 points in 33 games playing on a line with Kadri. Would've been on pace for 90 points and 54 at even strength. Do you think he is better than Nylander ability-wise?

Nov. 20, 2019 at 9:24 a.m.

#49

Shylo_Moxii

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Quoting: MikeyThePensFan

Marner has made a fair share of strong defensive plays throughout the last 2 seasons, as he has made some embarrassing ones. I thought you were going to vote for AHL caliber player.

I'm realistic not stupid.

Nov. 20, 2019 at 9:25 a.m.

#50