so if the selke trophy isn't awarded based off defensive abilities, what is it based off then?

Being named Patrice Bergeron or Mark Stone.

Just because you don't understand what the other person is saying doesn't mean it's off topic

I KNEW there was a reason I'd blocked this guy!

Genuine question. Do you know how to read?

Oh wow the mighty TOI argument.

I block person because they show stats that go against my agenda.

A+ logic

>blocking people because they show how shiddy your agendas are

Oilers worst contract is living off the PP and a high shot%, he'll regress and then everyone will see how trash he is again

scoring goals =/= good player

Nice counter-argument. I'm still waiting if you have any statistical proof to show that he's worth that contract

Since when is xGA the deciding factor in a player winning the Selke or not? This is one of many factors yet all you choose to focus on this and only this. I wish you still had me blocked. It’s funny to see you all try to hype this up so much

no see, hes so good!



see!!!

It's almost like xGA shows how good a player has been defensively.

so are you gonna answer any of the questions we asked? or.....?

1) common sense tells you ZAR isnt a selke candidate and only focusing on xGA is idiotic
2) Kahun is arguably better than ZAR. He has the beta TA/GA IN THE NHL.

When was the last time a 4th liner was even a finalist for the Selke?

I honestly did not look, but I am guessing that the answer rhymes with "clever"

Oh no ZAR AND COPP are the 2 best defensive players to come to the Nhl. If you only focus on xGA and not:

Zone start zone finish ratio
Toi ( a guy said this doesn’t matter)
Qualcomp
Corsi (if you don’t read too much into it)
Block shots
Turnover ratio
Hits
Points

copp and ZAR are both top 5 in CA/60
time on ice has nothing to do with defense
they both play against the other teams best players for a lot of their shifts
points gave nothing to do with defense

ah the classic cut-off of 225 minutes to leave out a player on his own team with a better xGA/60 in 33 less 5v5 minutes. Kahun 4 Selke

zach aston reese is better than evgeny kuznetsov

A few lucky bounces and easy matchups can swing defensive stats, especially through just 20 or so games. Too early to discuss. Glad to hear he can eat again.

I mentioned this in another thread but I'll bring it up here as well.

The Selke trophy is an opinion based award from a select group of people. If the PHWA was comprised of people who put all their faith in analytics, the award WOULD go to guys like ZAR/Copp for example...... and who would we be to argue otherwise? They are ones that choose. You can disagree but that doesn't mean your right either.

Judging by previous nominees and winners though, its painfully clear they are not people who use analytics to completely form their opinion so how can anyone claim to say a player like ZAR/Copp should win the Selke based on analytics that not everyone in a position of authority even agree upon as a standard?

If the argument was if ZAR/Copp are having a very good defensive seasons this year, would anyone disagree that they aren't? I don't think so. That has no bearing on how many minutes they've played or better yet you could use any level factor we could agree upon just to say a player is having a good season in any particular category and it be fine. I haven't personally watched enough of them this season to form my opinion but based on what the analytics show, i wouldn't discredit it either. but that's not what we're all talking about, is it? Its whether ZAR/Copp would win the Selke and I've already addressed why that isn't probable.

As for the AGM in particular, most of them are pretty valid, I mean there is no eye test nor analytic that could say Seabrook is not a huge anchor for his team right now but some of them others are hard to agree with. Especially (mainly) without knowing how you are value weighing what makes a contract good or bad based on the players on ice and off ice performance overall.

Should != Would... Gibson SHOULD win the Vezina (probably), but will he... No, probably not...