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Someone explain why Puljujarvi is so coveted on here

Nov. 18, 2019 at 11:38 p.m.
#1
Karsenbill
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Admittedly I know little about him, So why are users on here trading serviceable assets and decent picks for an unknown? Is it just his skill? Or am I right in thinking he’s just the Finnish Nikita Filatov?
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Nov. 19, 2019 at 7:39 a.m.
#2
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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Quoting: Bill_Karsen
Admittedly I know little about him, So why are users on here trading serviceable assets and decent picks for an unknown? Is it just his skill? Or am I right in thinking he’s just the Finnish Nikita Filatov?


He might have more potential than Filatov, but I agree with you. He was bare NHLer with the last place Oilers, I don't understand so many think trading for him makes him a 2nd line winger on a good team. Not that wish JP any misfortune but you think his has to turn his career abruptly to be considered a decent NHLer.
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Nov. 19, 2019 at 9:23 a.m.
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Quoting: Bill_Karsen
Admittedly I know little about him, So why are users on here trading serviceable assets and decent picks for an unknown? Is it just his skill? Or am I right in thinking he’s just the Finnish Nikita Filatov?


He has elite potential, his market value is depreciated, and he's a completely lost asset to the organization that currently owns his rights.
Seems like a pretty obvious trade target, to be honest.
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Nov. 19, 2019 at 10:43 a.m.
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Quoting: Bflo_Soldier
He has elite potential, his market value is depreciated, and he's a completely lost asset to the organization that currently owns his rights.
Seems like a pretty obvious trade target, to be honest.


right but you dont give up good assets for a guy worth nothing to his own organization. especially when he flat out told the oilers he wasnt playing for them.
Nov. 19, 2019 at 10:53 a.m.
#5
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Edited Nov. 19, 2019 at 11:11 a.m.
Quoting: hanson493
right but you dont give up good assets for a guy worth nothing to his own organization. especially when he flat out told the oilers he wasnt playing for them.


I haven't really paid a lot of attention to the Armchair GMs to see what people were offering, but it was originally described above as "serviceable assets and decent picks" which sounds appropriate for a very young under-performing player with elite potential.

Some similar recent examples of struggling young players with high ceilings and what they fetched:
Dylan Strome (packaged with Perlini) for Nick Schmaltz
Domi for Galchenyuk
Alex Nylander for Jokiharju
Griffin Reinhart for 1st and 2nd
Grigorenko (packaged with others) for Ryan O'Reilly (packaged with Jamie McGinn)
Ryan Strome for Eberle
Baertschi for 2nd
Nov. 19, 2019 at 11:08 a.m.
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Quoting: Bflo_Soldier
I haven't really paid a lot of attention to the Armchair GMs to see what people were offering, but it was originally described above as "serviceable assets and decent picks" which sounds appropriate for a very young under-performing player with elite potential.


how can you say he still has elite potential though. He has 37 points in 139 games. Sure his usage varied and his playing partners varied but you still gotta produce a little bit better as the 6th overall pick. I dont see his elite potential.
Nov. 19, 2019 at 11:33 a.m.
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Quoting: hanson493
how can you say he still has elite potential though. He has 37 points in 139 games. Sure his usage varied and his playing partners varied but you still gotta produce a little bit better as the 6th overall pick. I dont see his elite potential.


It could be an issue of organizational management, coaching, attitude, slow acclimation to North America...any number of things.
He's a 4th overall pick (nearly universally projected as the 3rd best prospect in the draft that year) only 3 years ago and he's still only 21 years old.
There's likely a plethora of coaches, GMs, owners (with the egos you need to have at this level) that believe they could "fix" him.
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Nov. 19, 2019 at 5:20 p.m.
#8
torontos finest
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oilers want to cash in on his potential value. Even though edmonton has done an abysmal job with his development, he hasn't exactly shown he can be a top 6 guy in the league.

a lot of acgms overvalue potential.
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Nov. 19, 2019 at 8:16 p.m.
#9
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Karsenbill
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Quoting: mondo
oilers want to cash in on his potential value. Even though edmonton has done an abysmal job with his development, he hasn't exactly shown he can be a top 6 guy in the league.

a lot of acgms overvalue potential.


This is true. I can see him slotting nicely next to a veteran Finn on a third line with sheltered minutes and maybe a 2nd PP unit, but I haven’t seen anything from him that makes him elite in the NHL.
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Nov. 19, 2019 at 8:21 p.m.
#10
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Karsenbill
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Quoting: hanson493
right but you dont give up good assets for a guy worth nothing to his own organization. especially when he flat out told the oilers he wasnt playing for them.

4th round pick and maybe a B prospect but to me this still seems too much. Someone might overpay for him but that doesn’t mean it’s worth it.
Nov. 19, 2019 at 8:23 p.m.
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Quoting: mondo
oilers want to cash in on his potential value. Even though edmonton has done an abysmal job with his development, he hasn't exactly shown he can be a top 6 guy in the league.

a lot of acgms overvalue potential.


That's probably because a lot of teams overvalue potential.
Nov. 19, 2019 at 8:34 p.m.
#12
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Karsenbill
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to me he seems like Jonathan Dahlen. Super confident in his own ability that he’ll either play in the NHL or back to his native country. Dahlen as well has top six potential and a more rounded game than Jesse. Only Dahlen wasn’t a first rounder. And now because of his own arrogance he’s playing in the Swedish B league and will be very lucky to even sniff the NHL this year. The Sharks org has been very quiet about him since the summer.
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Nov. 19, 2019 at 10:17 p.m.
#13
I put math in hockey
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Puljujarvi's a useful player, through his career he's typically been a touch below average on D, somewhere between below average and good at driving offence, with a below average shot. (Depends on what model you look at.) Very solid but not spectacular transition microstats. He's a solid middle-sixer, no less, no more. I think some people view him as an Oilers-created bust and therefore fixable. It's not impossible, he's only 21, but at the same time I wouldn't bet much on it. I wouldn't give a first for him, but I'd be willing to toss a 2nd or lower at Edmonton to see what I can get out of him.
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Nov. 19, 2019 at 10:33 p.m.
#14
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Karsenbill
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Quoting: The_Ultimate_Pielord
Puljujarvi's a useful player, through his career he's typically been a touch below average on D, somewhere between below average and good at driving offence, with a below average shot. (Depends on what model you look at.) Very solid but not spectacular transition microstats. He's a solid middle-sixer, no less, no more. I think some people view him as an Oilers-created bust and therefore fixable. It's not impossible, he's only 21, but at the same time I wouldn't bet much on it. I wouldn't give a first for him, but I'd be willing to toss a 2nd or lower at Edmonton to see what I can get out of him.


Thanks for that. Sounds like he isn’t a bust just merely miscast.
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Nov. 20, 2019 at 12:46 a.m.
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In terms of a trade for draft picks, what exactly is his trade value? Is he worth a late 1st/early 2nd rounder at this point?
Nov. 20, 2019 at 5:10 a.m.
#16
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Quoting: Brian2016
In terms of a trade for draft picks, what exactly is his trade value? Is he worth a late 1st/early 2nd rounder at this point?

I wouldn’t pay more than a 3rd to be honest
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Nov. 20, 2019 at 9:10 a.m.
#17
Bo Horvat enjoyer
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Quoting: Brian2016
In terms of a trade for draft picks, what exactly is his trade value? Is he worth a late 1st/early 2nd rounder at this point?


If someone trades a first for him they’re on crack
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Nov. 20, 2019 at 1:39 p.m.
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Quoting: AndrewLadd
If someone trades a first for him they’re on crack


I would def. give up a 2nd for him. There's a reason he went 4th overall. He does have elite talent. I think its def. worth a 2nd rounder to see if that talent can be developed.
Nov. 20, 2019 at 2:44 p.m.
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Quoting: Brian2016
In terms of a trade for draft picks, what exactly is his trade value? Is he worth a late 1st/early 2nd rounder at this point?


Depends who you're trading with. Griffin Reinhart fetched a 1st and 2nd from Edmonton in 2015.
Nov. 20, 2019 at 5:48 p.m.
#20
I put math in hockey
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Quoting: Brian2016
In terms of a trade for draft picks, what exactly is his trade value? Is he worth a late 1st/early 2nd rounder at this point?


I'd probably do anything outside the first round. Pick value decays exponentially, so basically any pick outside the first 20ish is essentially the same. It's a really big market inefficiency, teams can add a ton of pick value by trading all their 2nds and 3rds for 6ths and 7ths.

And I mean, he's a 21 year old who's proven he's good enough to stick at the NHL level, even if he's not really a star. Maybe he can fulfill the potential that got him picked 4th overall. Maybe he just is what he is. But a young guy with some proven ability is always gonna be worth a pick for a team with issues in their forward depth.
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Nov. 21, 2019 at 12:53 a.m.
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Quoting: The_Ultimate_Pielord
I'd probably do anything outside the first round. Pick value decays exponentially, so basically any pick outside the first 20ish is essentially the same. It's a really big market inefficiency, teams can add a ton of pick value by trading all their 2nds and 3rds for 6ths and 7ths.

And I mean, he's a 21 year old who's proven he's good enough to stick at the NHL level, even if he's not really a star. Maybe he can fulfill the potential that got him picked 4th overall. Maybe he just is what he is. But a young guy with some proven ability is always gonna be worth a pick for a team with issues in their forward depth.


I totally agree. 4th overall picks are always gonna be given there benefit of the doubt anyway. I still think he's a potential middle six forward capable of 40-45 points. But, he needs to be in a structured and declined environment. EDM was a cesspool and he never got the proper development he deserved.
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Nov. 21, 2019 at 4:19 a.m.
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How could he not be worth at least a high 2nd rounder right now? I just counted the number of 2016 2nd round picks currently on an NHL roster. That number is 7. And out of those 7 players, only 4 are impact players (5 if you count NYR's D Libor Hajek). The 4 impact players are Carter Hart, Alex DeBrincat, Sam Girard, and Filip Hronek.

Basically, the odds of a 2nd rounder becoming an impact player has to e less than 25%. I contend that Puljujarvi still has at least a 25% chance of becoming an impact player in the right situation. I would love to see the Devils trade Hall for Puljujarvi plus a 1st rounder. Not sure Holland would comply, but...
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