Take out Liljgren and I think its fair

I don't think TO has any interest in that at this time. Matthews is untouchable I'd wager. Plus giving up Sandin and Liljegren is too much. Yes Jones is absolutely an elite talent, however, I think that both Sandin and Liljegren are going to be terrific player in the very near future and that makes this too much. Matthews is hands down way better than Dubois and I think Sandin and Liljegren collectively could be effective top 4 defenders very soon.

Thanks. I agree that Matthews>Dubois but I think Jones>>Liljegren+Sandin, until either plays ten NHL games at least? As it says in the description, the point from Toronto's side is to stay elite at center, add an elite RHD they've needed for five years now, and add 6M of cap space to immediately trade for Taylor Hall.

The question is, if CBJ is okay with rebuilding around Matthews and a top five pick, then how much more does Tor have to add for Korpisalo?

Nah, none of this makes sense.

I am certain Dubas would love Jones, who wouldn't but the down grade at centre is pretty steep and if you look long term, the flexibility that Sandin and Lijegren offer over Dubois and Jones from a cap perspective is very important to this franchise.

If you loom at it is it really a downgrade? Nylander still plays Center you have Tavares still and a couple other serviceable Centers including a couple that are in the pool that could come up.

Two summers in a row, Babcock had to fly to meet with Matthews to talk things through because his coaching just wears guys down. He has more tools than just about anyone else in the game, only a handful of guys have more raw talent than Matthews. Dubois is not in the same universe, despite being a terrific player. The upgrade on defence (it is huge yes) also comes with a major downgrade in their defensive prospect pool, it essentially cuts it and that isn't good when they have only Rielly signed beyond this season. This trade causes as many problems as it solves. I just don't see the Leafs ever entertaining trading Matthews unless 1) McDavid demands a trade or 2) If Matthews demands a trade. I think the likelihood of either of those moments happening is pretty much non existent.

I mostly agree. He's such a nice guy, and he's so consistent on the ice, and he's always said he's happy playing in Toronto. But his refusal to give up any years of UFA would give me pause, as a GM, especially with a cap hit that a lot of people thought he might get on a max term deal. Based on that alone, moving him in a deal that fixes the defense and improves the team's Cup odds is something a GM could get away with more easily than falling out of the playoffs for lack of action. The coaching change might take care of the latter, but if it doesn't, they might make moves... but I looked at it from Toronto's side and decided they need to also upgrade in net. Reposted as, "All in," with Korpisalo and Hall.

While I generally see your point in terms of wanting more defensemen than just Morgan Rielly and Seth Jones under contract.... wait, no I don't. Dermott's an RFA and Muzzin will sign for less than Muzzin+Ceci currently cost. So you're talking about whether Jones is a huge upgrade over Ceci. Help me figure that one out?

if Gagner is your 2C you're in for a world of loss

Thats not what happened though. Matthews and Dubas both said that there was a willingness to go to 8 years but that would have cost more, so they found a term and dollar amount that both sides were happy with. The whole notion that he's planning on leaving in 5 years is entirely media driven drama. Its the media speculating hoping to generate an uproar from both Leafs Nation and Troll Nation.

Long term is something most people don't think about. The Leafs don't have to worry about a major contract until Andersen is FA after next season and then Rielly the year after and then 2 years after than it'll be Matthews and Nylander again. Trade Matthews like this and now you have Dubois needing a contract after this season, and then Rielly and Jones at the same time in 3 years. How much is that going to cost? Keep in mind, they'll exactly zero high value young ELC's on defence to help bring value for cheap. Plus you downgraded your centre depth in a big way.

You're saying that based off seeing him in a 4th line role with some checkers who couldn't finish his passes, and no offensive zone starts, though. Last time Gagner played 2C he got 50 points. That was in Columbus and they did fine. He's still in his prime. Vancouver and Edmonton are fortunate to have no shortage of better options at center, but for a rebuilding team, Gagner's homecoming and return to at-least-average offense would be a great story.

I made another version of this from Toronto's side where I added some stuff for Korpisalo, because I think Korpisalo currently carries the Jackets on his back, and you can't rebuild through the draft with a goalie who can't lose. I think I traded him for a 2nd, 3rd, and Kaskisuo, leaving CBJ with zero career wins, up and down their goaltending depth chart. If that doesn't land an immediate #2C out of a deep draft, I don't know what will. In the offseason, they can pick up Aaron Dell and Garrett Sparks at 1M each and get back to the playoffs.

Solid point on term not being a big deal.

A cynic is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

I posted a Leafs version with Hall, Jones and Korpisalo. I think I traded Engval for a #6D. I was going to add more forwards, but I looked at the roster, and they didn't need anything more. It's a team that can hoist. Then Hall walks, Andersen gets traded, and yeah, they pay Dubois and Korpisalo, who brought home the Cup.

This is just a no from all sides.

Lol. You started it. https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/285587&post_id=1159045

Yeah... but I still don’t think Toronto is going to trade Matthews. The value is there for sure, just not a reason to make said trade.

Also that San Jose trade is bad... Detroit would offer more for Werenski.

They're all bad trades for CBJ (short term). The point was that they tank and rebuild around Matthews and a top five pick in the upcoming draft, plus a ton of young defensemen.

Then I got worried that Korpisalo would still carry the team to the wild card race on his back, and I threw him in for chump change on the version I posted on the Toronto side. That part evens out when Toronto pays CBJ a 2nd to take a year of Andersen next summer.

Edit: CBJ would only do this if they don't think the current group can contend within Jones' and Werenski's contracts. I think it's debatable, but this year's draft is supposed to be deep, Matthews is a little better than Dubois, and losing for one year to add another top five pick to play #2C could be worth more to the Jackets' Cup chances than everything I'm giving away here. In terms of ticket sales, though, adding Matthews should keep that going for this year, and next summer they add a couple backup goalies on the cheap, and they might be right back in the wild card race.

2nd edit: I agree, TML probably never trade Matthews. But I built this team on the idea that it lets them rent Hall and win a Cup if they could trade him and some stuff for Jones and Dubois.

I think it's premature and needless. I like their roster now and I like how they are set up for the future.