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Should Bortuzzo Have Gotten More

Should Robert Bortuzzo have been suspended for more than 4 games for his second cross-check of Viktor Arvidsson?
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Nov. 24, 2019 at 6:04 p.m.
#1
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I haven't seen as dirty a play as this in about 15 years. If I were the head of Player Safety I would have given this repeat offender goon 41 games for deliberate intent to injure a player who could not defend himself. And I still remember Filip Forsberg's dirty hit to Josh Manson's head that knocked him out of the playoffs and gave him a concussion, so no one can accuse me of being a Nashville fan.
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Nov. 25, 2019 at 1:07 p.m.
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
I haven't seen as dirty a play as this in about 15 years. If I were the head of Player Safety I would have given this repeat offender goon 41 games for deliberate intent to injure a player who could not defend himself. And I still remember Filip Forsberg's dirty hit to Josh Manson's head that knocked him out of the playoffs and gave him a concussion, so no one can accuse me of being a Nashville fan.


ehhhh if he doesnt flop the first time bortuzzo probably doesnt do it a second time. ide say arvidsson has to share equal blame in this one. cause and effect. he flopped, bortuzzo got called for his flop so he did one legit. nows hes out for 4-6 weeks. dont flop and that might not happen?
Nov. 25, 2019 at 1:24 p.m.
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Quoting: hanson493
ehhhh if he doesnt flop the first time bortuzzo probably doesnt do it a second time. ide say arvidsson has to share equal blame in this one. cause and effect. he flopped, bortuzzo got called for his flop so he did one legit. nows hes out for 4-6 weeks. dont flop and that might not happen?


Yeah how dare Arvidsson fall over because he got cross checked in the back. Abysmal take.
Nov. 25, 2019 at 1:32 p.m.
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Also why is a goon the Head of Player Safety?
Nov. 25, 2019 at 1:46 p.m.
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Quoting: mondo
Yeah how dare Arvidsson fall over because he got cross checked in the back. Abysmal take.


he got tapped in the back and dove. watch it again, bortuzzo barely touches him the first time, arvy flops gets the call bortuzzo says screw it and drills him
Nov. 25, 2019 at 1:57 p.m.
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Quoting: hanson493
he got tapped in the back and dove. watch it again, bortuzzo barely touches him the first time, arvy flops gets the call bortuzzo says screw it and drills him


I watched it again. Bortuzzo's stick was well into Arvidsson's back, and Bortuzzo pushed forward. His stick was still in his back as Ardvisson was falling and trying not to break his face on the upper bar, from a hit he could not have seen coming.
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Nov. 25, 2019 at 2:20 p.m.
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Quoting: mondo
I watched it again. Bortuzzo's stick was well into Arvidsson's back, and Bortuzzo pushed forward. His stick was still in his back as Ardvisson was falling and trying not to break his face on the upper bar, from a hit he could not have seen coming.


you can see by bortuzzo's reaction where hes literally lunging forward grabbing the crossbar that he wasnt expecting arvy to drop like that. ive watched the same 5 seconds or so 20+ times now and still come to the same conclusion that while yes it is still technically a cross check, bortuzzo doesnt really touch him the first time. the second time was on him though. that one was rough.
Nov. 25, 2019 at 3:37 p.m.
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Quoting: hanson493
ehhhh if he doesnt flop the first time bortuzzo probably doesnt do it a second time. ide say arvidsson has to share equal blame in this one. cause and effect. he flopped, bortuzzo got called for his flop so he did one legit. nows hes out for 4-6 weeks. dont flop and that might not happen?


That's an odd way to "flop," striking your face against the goalposts crossbar.
Nov. 25, 2019 at 3:43 p.m.
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
That's an odd way to "flop," striking your face against the goalposts crossbar.


he didnt even touch the crossbar. he got hit in the hip while standing upright, i want to know how his knees were the first thing to make contact with the ice and then he flies forward. he went down then into the goal with his arms up. to me it looks like a flop.
Nov. 25, 2019 at 3:45 p.m.
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Quoting: hanson493
you can see by bortuzzo's reaction where hes literally lunging forward grabbing the crossbar that he wasnt expecting arvy to drop like that. ive watched the same 5 seconds or so 20+ times now and still come to the same conclusion that while yes it is still technically a cross check, bortuzzo doesnt really touch him the first time. the second time was on him though. that one was rough.


Yeah, just another day at the office . . . for a goon. Since when is it okay to cross-check a guy lightly? And why are you trying to excuse it? "Doesn't really touch him the ifrst time"? Did you watch it in real time? It was a deliberate, 8-inch thrust and you can see Arvidsson's head whiplash before snapping forward and hitting the crossbar. Did you watch this "20+ times" through rose-colored glasses? Do you think our game really needs jerks like this? Do you really think that giving Bortuzzo only 4 games for this assault causes even one fellow thug to exert the enormous self-control it takes not to retaliate in the heat of the moment to a real or perceived violation of the rules? Or do you think, like me, that giving this criminal 41 games would make him and garbage like Todd Bertuzzi think twice the next time they're about to commit a felony?
Nov. 25, 2019 at 3:47 p.m.
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Quoting: hanson493
he didnt even touch the crossbar. he got hit in the hip while standing upright, i want to know how his knees were the first thing to make contact with the ice and then he flies forward. he went down then into the goal with his arms up. to me it looks like a flop.


His knees hit the ice first because the crossbar stopped his forward motion. Why is it so hard for you to be intellectually honest?
Nov. 25, 2019 at 3:51 p.m.
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
His knees hit the ice first because the crossbar stopped his forward motion. Why is it so hard for you to be intellectually honest?


i am being intellectually honest, i watched this play more than 20 times pausing every time the hit happens. it looks far worse real time, slow it down and bortuzzo hardly touches him and arvy doesnt even touch the crossbar. you think bortuzzo would look at the ref like that if he thought it was a real cross check?
Nov. 25, 2019 at 3:55 p.m.
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
Yeah, just another day at the office . . . for a goon. Since when is it okay to cross-check a guy lightly? And why are you trying to excuse it? "Doesn't really touch him the ifrst time"? Did you watch it in real time? It was a deliberate, 8-inch thrust and you can see Arvidsson's head whiplash before snapping forward and hitting the crossbar. Did you watch this "20+ times" through rose-colored glasses? Do you think our game really needs jerks like this? Do you really think that giving Bortuzzo only 4 games for this assault causes even one fellow thug to exert the enormous self-control it takes not to retaliate in the heat of the moment to a real or perceived violation of the rules? Or do you think, like me, that giving this criminal 41 games would make him and garbage like Todd Bertuzzi think twice the next time they're about to commit a felony?


First, i have zero bias in this play. im a bruins fan, if anything you would think i want the blues to suffer right? Second, yes i think hockey needs physicality, whether thats cross checks, charging hits, launching hits, etc, ive said before in other forum posts and ill say again, violence sells. The more violent the sport the better it will do ratings wise. I bet guys would think twice about doing cheap stuff all around if they knew they were going to get absolutely buried without repercussion. a guy flops he gets a cross check to the back, a guy gives a bad hit, he gets demolished next time he has the puck. I am not one for cleaning up hockey.
Nov. 25, 2019 at 4:00 p.m.
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Quoting: hanson493
i am being intellectually honest, i watched this play more than 20 times pausing every time the hit happens. it looks far worse real time, slow it down and bortuzzo hardly touches him and arvy doesnt even touch the crossbar. you think bortuzzo would look at the ref like that if he thought it was a real cross check?


Yes, because the cement-head has the mentality that the first cross-check defending the crease is permitted.

Rules are rules. Making contact with an opposing player's body when the stick is parallel to the ice is cross-checking. The very fact that Bertuzzo lost his temper when he realized he wasn't getting a free shot tells you what his mind-set was; and then cross-checking a prone Arvidsson out of anger shows you that this wasn't accidental. Cross-checking a defenseless player as a reaction to being penalized (1) is an expression of guilt, (2) shows intent to injure, (3) is the act of a coward, and (4) has no place in hockey -- just like Todd Bertuzzi's cowardly attack from behind on a player skating away from him, which effectively ended that player's career and should have gotten Bertuzzi a season suspension, if not a lifetime ban.
Nov. 25, 2019 at 4:05 p.m.
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Quoting: hanson493
i am being intellectually honest, i watched this play more than 20 times pausing every time the hit happens. it looks far worse real time, slow it down and bortuzzo hardly touches him and arvy doesnt even touch the crossbar. you think bortuzzo would look at the ref like that if he thought it was a real cross check?


Every single player in the league is going to do what they can to draw a call. If they feel a stick in their back, they're going to go down. It's smart hockey, and if you thing there's a single player that won't do it, you're wrong.
Nov. 25, 2019 at 5:24 p.m.
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Quoting: hanson493
First, i have zero bias in this play. im a bruins fan, if anything you would think i want the blues to suffer right? Second, yes i think hockey needs physicality, whether thats cross checks, charging hits, launching hits, etc, ive said before in other forum posts and ill say again, violence sells. The more violent the sport the better it will do ratings wise. I bet guys would think twice about doing cheap stuff all around if they knew they were going to get absolutely buried without repercussion. a guy flops he gets a cross check to the back, a guy gives a bad hit, he gets demolished next time he has the puck. I am not one for cleaning up hockey.


Equating physicality with illegal thuggery is a false equivalence, and your assertion that violence sells is an appeal to the worst common denominator. Professional hockey isn't professional wrestling. Moreover, your contention that x-per-cent of people watch hockey, and therefore increase ratings, because violence sells ignores the very real possibility that x-plus-y-percent of people, i.e., MORE people, would watch hockey if it DIDN'T contain goonery. And I'm sorry to see you consign yourself to the Neanderthal Age of the sport by openly stating that "I am not one for cleaning up hockey."
Nov. 25, 2019 at 10:20 p.m.
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
His knees hit the ice first because the crossbar stopped his forward motion. Why is it so hard for you to be intellectually honest?


Intellectual honesty??? Yeah, there's not a lot of that going on these days.
Nov. 26, 2019 at 11:21 a.m.
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
Equating physicality with illegal thuggery is a false equivalence, and your assertion that violence sells is an appeal to the worst common denominator. Professional hockey isn't professional wrestling. Moreover, your contention that x-per-cent of people watch hockey, and therefore increase ratings, because violence sells ignores the very real possibility that x-plus-y-percent of people, i.e., MORE people, would watch hockey if it DIDN'T contain goonery. And I'm sorry to see you consign yourself to the Neanderthal Age of the sport by openly stating that "I am not one for cleaning up hockey."


The fact you are getting this worked up over the initial "cross check" is whats wrong with society. Everyone is going soft. 15 years ago thats "clearing out the crease". That stuff was legal. The second one was over the line, theres no reason for that. But the first "cross check" was soft and a massive flop by arvidsson. stay on your feet, you go into the paint like that you have to expect to get hit. Also its plain statistics, hockey would still be at the "neanderthal age" of the sport if they werent facing extensive lawsuits over concussion and cte data. These guys CHOSE to play a VIOLENT PHYSICAL sport. They could have done literally anything else with their life. They signed up for this. Its naive thinking a bunch of injuries over your career and youll be magically fine when you stop playing. I also think the product in the early 2000's is a better product of hockey. The game is growing but its getting boring, dump and chase hockey without hits. a good percent of goals are powerplay goals usually on soft goals. Good goals are getting called back for a skate blade (naked to the human eye) being over the blue paint and being "offsides". Let me ask you this, how much flopping happened back in the early 2000s? vs how much is happening now to draw penalties. arvidsson diving directly caused bortuzzo to drill him the 2nd time. And yeah in the heat of the moment if im bortuzzo and this dude just dove into my goalies net, i probably do the same thing or something similar.
Nov. 26, 2019 at 11:35 a.m.
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Quoting: hanson493
The fact you are getting this worked up over the initial "cross check" is whats wrong with society. Everyone is going soft. 15 years ago thats "clearing out the crease". That stuff was legal. The second one was over the line, theres no reason for that. But the first "cross check" was soft and a massive flop by arvidsson. stay on your feet, you go into the paint like that you have to expect to get hit. Also its plain statistics, hockey would still be at the "neanderthal age" of the sport if they werent facing extensive lawsuits over concussion and cte data. These guys CHOSE to play a VIOLENT PHYSICAL sport. They could have done literally anything else with their life. They signed up for this. Its naive thinking a bunch of injuries over your career and youll be magically fine when you stop playing. I also think the product in the early 2000's is a better product of hockey. The game is growing but its getting boring, dump and chase hockey without hits. a good percent of goals are powerplay goals usually on soft goals. Good goals are getting called back for a skate blade (naked to the human eye) being over the blue paint and being "offsides". Let me ask you this, how much flopping happened back in the early 2000s? vs how much is happening now to draw penalties. arvidsson diving directly caused bortuzzo to drill him the 2nd time. And yeah in the heat of the moment if im bortuzzo and this dude just dove into my goalies net, i probably do the same thing or something similar.


i think you're better off watching ufc or something if you have such a bloodlust for violence
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Nov. 26, 2019 at 11:50 a.m.
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Quoting: mondo
i think you're better off watching ufc or something if you have such a bloodlust for violence


no, i just want to see exciting plays. big hits usually lead to odd man rushes. big hits lead to grittier play and better competition. You cant tell me a team wouldnt play another team harder after someone on the opposing team dropped one of your guys. The game today just seems almost robotic. the league wants offense so bad they are compromising the defensive aspect of the game. Its the same thing the NFL is doing by getting rid of hits and penalizing everything. Is that what you want hockey to become?
Nov. 26, 2019 at 12:24 p.m.
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Quoting: hanson493
The fact you are getting this worked up over the initial "cross check" is whats wrong with society. Everyone is going soft. 15 years ago thats "clearing out the crease". That stuff was legal. The second one was over the line, theres no reason for that. But the first "cross check" was soft and a massive flop by arvidsson. stay on your feet, you go into the paint like that you have to expect to get hit. Also its plain statistics, hockey would still be at the "neanderthal age" of the sport if they werent facing extensive lawsuits over concussion and cte data. These guys CHOSE to play a VIOLENT PHYSICAL sport. They could have done literally anything else with their life. They signed up for this. Its naive thinking a bunch of injuries over your career and youll be magically fine when you stop playing. I also think the product in the early 2000's is a better product of hockey. The game is growing but its getting boring, dump and chase hockey without hits. a good percent of goals are powerplay goals usually on soft goals. Good goals are getting called back for a skate blade (naked to the human eye) being over the blue paint and being "offsides". Let me ask you this, how much flopping happened back in the early 2000s? vs how much is happening now to draw penalties. arvidsson diving directly caused bortuzzo to drill him the 2nd time. And yeah in the heat of the moment if im bortuzzo and this dude just dove into my goalies net, i probably do the same thing or something similar.


Why is it what Bortuzzo did is fine to do but slashing a player isn't? Or high sticking a guy? Or kneeing a guy in the balls or pretty much every single "violence" type penalty you can think of? Why doesn't Bortuzzo just two hand slash Arvidsson face while he's on the ground? Why is cross checking a guy in the back, that's no biggie.................. but slashing a guys head whenever he dives, is not okay? Like what is the pain threshold that allows one type of attack on a player okay but not another....... is the spine a part of the body that isn't important, kind of like a second kidney that you can live without?

You know what I remember as tough hockey? Dino Ciccarrelli full pin baseball bat swinging his stick against Luke Richardson's head. Personally I think cross checking a guy in the back is gutless, if you are going to try and inflict injury on a player go for the head. If you are lucky and manage to hit the player directly in the temple, they may even die. That's how it should be done.....

Frankly I think Arvidsson should be allowed to use his skate to slice Bortuzzo's neck next time they play each other. Since Bortuzzo felt Arvi dove, he got cross check him in the back as he deserved. Arvi felt Bortuzzo over exaggerated when he cross checked him so he gets to murder Bortuzzo. Makes perfect sense, no? because i know if anyone tried to break my back like Bortuzzo did in literally any situation in life, in the heat of the moment I would use whatever object I had at my disposal to end that person's life.

All that because Bortuzzo felt Arvidsson dove when he pushed him from behind into the cross bar and into the net..... pretty silly right? So why is Bortuzzo's assault on Arvidsson okay but not my scenario for Arvidsson on Bortuzzo.?
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Nov. 26, 2019 at 12:37 p.m.
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Quoting: F50marco
Why is it what Bortuzzo did is fine to do but slashing a player isn't? Or high sticking a guy? Or kneeing a guy in the balls or pretty much every single "violence" type penalty you can think of? Why doesn't Bortuzzo just two hand slash Arvidsson face while he's on the ground? Why is cross checking a guy in the back, that's no biggie.................. but slashing a guys head whenever he dives, is not okay? Like what is the pain threshold that allows one type of attack on a player okay but not another....... is the spine a part of the body that isn't important, kind of like a second kidney that you can live without?

You know what I remember as tough hockey? Dino Ciccarrelli full pin baseball bat swinging his stick against Luke Richardson's head. Personally I think cross checking a guy in the back is gutless, if you are going to try and inflict injury on a player go for the head. If you are lucky and manage to hit the player directly in the temple, they may even die. That's how it should be done.....

Frankly I think Arvidsson should be allowed to use his skate to slice Bortuzzo's neck next time they play each other. Since Bortuzzo felt Arvi dove, he got cross check him in the back as he deserved. Arvi felt Bortuzzo over exaggerated when he cross checked him so he gets to murder Bortuzzo. Makes perfect sense, no? because i know if anyone tried to break my back like Bortuzzo did in literally any situation in life, in the heat of the moment I would use whatever object I had at my disposal to end that person's life.

All that because Bortuzzo felt Arvidsson dove when he pushed him from behind into the cross bar and into the net..... pretty silly right? So why is Bortuzzo's assault on Arvidsson okay but not my scenario for Arvidsson on Bortuzzo.?


Please, tell me in the post above where i said bortuzzo unloading on arvidsson the 2nd time was okay? Im just giving a likely thought process on why it happened. I never condoned his actions on the 2nd cross check. I also said i would likely have done the same thing in that situation, doesnt mean im saying its the right thing to do. Please tell me where i said killing a guy on the ice is okay, or swinging a stick at a guys head is okay. Ide love to see where i said anything in that regard.
Nov. 26, 2019 at 1:16 p.m.
#23
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In short, yes
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Nov. 26, 2019 at 7:03 p.m.
#24
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Quoting: hanson493
The fact you are getting this worked up over the initial "cross check" is whats wrong with society. Everyone is going soft. 15 years ago thats "clearing out the crease". That stuff was legal.


What kind of argument is that? Fifty years ago, not letting black people vote was "legal" in some states. (Cross-checking was never legal; clearing out the crease was accepted, that's all.) And your admission that you would have done the same thing out of an inability to control your anger is appalling.

The idea that flopping is a license for an opposing player to deliberately attempt to injure the flopper is also appalling.

Your advocacy for allowing charging, launching, cross-checking, etc. in earlier posts all in the name of creating a professional-wrestling-like blood culture is, to put it kindly, uncivilized and, fortunately, counter to the general progress our society in general and hockey in particular is making.
Nov. 26, 2019 at 7:11 p.m.
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Quoting: hanson493
Please, tell me in the post above where i said bortuzzo unloading on arvidsson the 2nd time was okay? Im just giving a likely thought process on why it happened. I never condoned his actions on the 2nd cross check. I also said i would likely have done the same thing in that situation, doesnt mean im saying its the right thing to do. Please tell me where i said killing a guy on the ice is okay, or swinging a stick at a guys head is okay. Ide love to see where i said anything in that regard.


You said "violence sells." You advocated charging, launching and cross-checking -- all of which could result in serious or even career-ending injury. That's where you said "killing a guy on the ice is okay." You said it -- own it.
 
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