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NYR help for backup

Created by: Couvy
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Dec. 3, 2019
Published: Dec. 3, 2019
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
I saw someone else made the trade from the NYR perspective and thought I'd check how it looks from the leafs end. Bracco will likely never have a regular roster spot on this team so why not use him to fix one of our current biggest issues. We saw first hand how Gorgiev can steal a game for his team lol an easy upgrade over any backup Toronto currently has. The Rangers apparently are also looking for forward depth. I see this as mutually beneficial.
Trades
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the CBJ
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the COL
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the STL
Logo of the WPG
2021
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2022
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
21$81,500,000$81,389,643$0$202,500$110,357
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,400,000$3,400,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,634,000$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$10,893,000$10,893,000
RW
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, C, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,200,000$3,200,000
RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$675,000$675,000
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$775,000$775,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
C, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,500,000$4,500,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,000,000$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$675,000$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$863,333$863,333
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,750,000$2,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the New York Rangers
$792,500$792,500 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
G
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$694,444$694,444 (Performance Bonus$70,000$70K)
LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,250,000$5,250,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,300,000$5,300,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1

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Dec. 3, 2019 at 3:49 p.m.
#1
Emotionally in 2018
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I think the Leafs would need to add value-wise, but the idea is there. Sheshterkin looks ready for the NHL, so Georgiev should become expendable. I just think NYR could get more in a trade than this.
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Dec. 3, 2019 at 3:54 p.m.
#2
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You can probably get a backup goalie for a 3rd to a 4th depending on the level of player.
At most a 2nd.
It's not like those 3rd and 4th round picks mean of jack crap anyway.
Odds they become an NHL career player are under 15%
Dec. 3, 2019 at 4:27 p.m.
#3
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I think you are really close here man. I would expect that the Rangers would want more though. Adding a 3rd or possible a 4th probably gets it done. Rangers fans??? Your thoughts??
Dec. 3, 2019 at 4:32 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: Trevorchef
I think you are really close here man. I would expect that the Rangers would want more though. Adding a 3rd or possible a 4th probably gets it done. Rangers fans??? Your thoughts??


Not nearly enough. Some folks think Georgiev might be better than Shesty and could be the long term number 1 (i am not one of them but goalies are voodoo). I think the MINIMUM return for Georgiev is the Talbot package (a 2nd, a 3rd and a 7th). I personally think he gets more than that. So if Bracco is worth a 3rd, I think baseline here is Bracco and a 2021 2nd to get the convo started, since they arent likely to move a 2020 2nd with no 1.
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Dec. 3, 2019 at 4:38 p.m.
#5
hey look a squirrel
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One thing worries me is that Georgiev has looked a shaky at times this season.

Overall, adding a 4th gets this deal done IMO.
Dec. 3, 2019 at 4:50 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: Trevorchef
I think you are really close here man. I would expect that the Rangers would want more though. Adding a 3rd or possible a 4th probably gets it done. Rangers fans??? Your thoughts??


Quoting: BSpadaro83
Not nearly enough. Some folks think Georgiev might be better than Shesty and could be the long term number 1 (i am not one of them but goalies are voodoo). I think the MINIMUM return for Georgiev is the Talbot package (a 2nd, a 3rd and a 7th). I personally think he gets more than that. So if Bracco is worth a 3rd, I think baseline here is Bracco and a 2021 2nd to get the convo started, since they arent likely to move a 2020 2nd with no 1.


I think Bracco and a 2nd is a fair deal. If NYR are somehow able to juggle 3 goaltenders next year and give them all starts, they should opt to do that. Having Shestyorkin and Georgiev 2 years from now would be a great tandem.
Dec. 3, 2019 at 4:56 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: Trickster
One thing worries me is that Georgiev has looked a shaky at times this season.

Overall, adding a 4th gets this deal done IMO.


On a bad team though. That does mean something. I do understand your position here.
Dec. 3, 2019 at 5:00 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: BSpadaro83
Not nearly enough. Some folks think Georgiev might be better than Shesty and could be the long term number 1 (i am not one of them but goalies are voodoo). I think the MINIMUM return for Georgiev is the Talbot package (a 2nd, a 3rd and a 7th). I personally think he gets more than that. So if Bracco is worth a 3rd, I think baseline here is Bracco and a 2021 2nd to get the convo started, since they arent likely to move a 2020 2nd with no 1.


Thanks for the feedback. Speaking from a Leafs perspective, I think that is a little heavy. If it were Bracco + 3rd + 6th, I would be much more apt to consider it. Negotiations always start high on both sides and progress towards the middle. If the Rangers feel that Georgiev can return more than that, they should explore that instead. Personally, I don't.

Again, thanks for posting. Cheers.
Dec. 3, 2019 at 5:03 p.m.
#9
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Georgy costs 2 2nds. If you want to add Bracco that knocks out 1 of those 2nds...

So 2nd + Bracco.
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Dec. 3, 2019 at 5:33 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: Trevorchef
On a bad team though. That does mean something. I do understand your position here.


Don't get me though, like @jamiepo said Bracco and 4th for Georgiev (50 % retention)
Dec. 3, 2019 at 5:42 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: Sagecoll
Georgy costs 2 2nds. If you want to add Bracco that knocks out 1 of those 2nds...

So 2nd + Bracco.


That is still an overpay IMO. I do understand your position here because the Leafs are not in a position of strength in this particular transaction. I don't think that the Rangers get TWO 2nds for Georgiev from ANY team in the NHL. That is just overvaluing your own assets IMO.
Dec. 3, 2019 at 7:21 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: Trevorchef
That is still an overpay IMO. I do understand your position here because the Leafs are not in a position of strength in this particular transaction. I don't think that the Rangers get TWO 2nds for Georgiev from ANY team in the NHL. That is just overvaluing your own assets IMO.


I mean that's nice. Though allow me to retort with data (not opinions). The 2 major metrics for evaluating goaltenders properly are dFSV% and GSAx. Over the last 3 seasons, among all goaltenders Georgiev ranks in the top 15 in both.

That's a good foundation because it gives us something to measure against with a nice large sample size. Over the last 10 years there have been 3 goalies to put up those numbers (well 4 if we count Martin Jones but he was traded after 2 NHL seasons) and have been traded. They are:

Philip Grubauer: Traded at age 26 with Brooks Orpik (equivalent of a 1st or 2nd rounder depending on your valuation - reference: Marleau cost a 1st and the cap hit difference was less than a mil) for a 2nd.
Cory Schneider: Traded at age 27 for 12th Overall Pick.
Frederick Anderson: Traded at age 26 for a 1st and 2nd Round pick.
Martin Jones: Traded at age 25 for a 1st round pick and Sean Kuraly.

Now Georgiev is younger (23) meaning his rights with the team are held for longer. That would inherently make him more valuable. The lowest any comparable players were dealt for is ~2 2nd rounders (and even that might be a low estimate). Really Georgiev's value is around a 1st heh.

Again, just using the stats here and the comparables, these aren't opinions.
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Dec. 3, 2019 at 7:27 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: Sagecoll
I mean that's nice. Though allow me to retort with data (not opinions). The 2 major metrics for evaluating goaltenders properly are dFSV% and GSAx. Over the last 3 seasons, among all goaltenders Georgiev ranks in the top 15 in both.

That's a good foundation because it gives us something to measure against with a nice large sample size. Over the last 10 years there have been 3 goalies to put up those numbers (well 4 if we count Martin Jones but he was traded after 2 NHL seasons) and have been traded. They are:

Philip Grubauer: Traded at age 26 with Brooks Orpik (equivalent of a 1st or 2nd rounder depending on your valuation - reference: Marleau cost a 1st and the cap hit difference was less than a mil) for a 2nd.
Cory Schneider: Traded at age 27 for 12th Overall Pick.
Frederick Anderson: Traded at age 26 for a 1st and 2nd Round pick.
Martin Jones: Traded at age 25 for a 1st round pick and Sean Kuraly.

Now Georgiev is younger (23) meaning his rights with the team are held for longer. That would inherently make him more valuable. The lowest any comparable players were dealt for is ~2 2nd rounders (and even that might be a low estimate). Really Georgiev's value is around a 1st heh.

Again, just using the stats here and the comparables, these aren't opinions.


I see what you are saying and I appreciate your insight. The stats are the stats. I just think that 2 X 2nd round picks is too much. If Georgiev was a starting goaltender, I may feel differently about it. At present, he is not. Agree to disagree I suppose. Thanks again for your feedback.
Dec. 3, 2019 at 8:26 p.m.
#14
zuccarangers
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Im the rangers fan who made the trade earlier! I personally think georgiev is v solid and as a ranger fan would love to get as much back for him as possible. Only reason i didnt add more is because goalies tend to have weird value in the nhl for trades so its hard to guess whatll make a gm bite. Thinking back to past rangers trades, NYR traded Talbot (when he was their backup) when his value shouldve been really high but got back a really underwhelming return. Gorton is a better GM than sather though and also georgiev has played great against the leafs so who knows...
Dec. 3, 2019 at 8:34 p.m.
#15
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Quoting: Trevorchef
I see what you are saying and I appreciate your insight. The stats are the stats. I just think that 2 X 2nd round picks is too much. If Georgiev was a starting goaltender, I may feel differently about it. At present, he is not. Agree to disagree I suppose. Thanks again for your feedback.


No worries. I don't think it makes sense to deal to a team that will just use him as a backup. Makes more sense to give him to a team like Minnesota/Detroit/San Jose/Calgary to be their starter...
Dec. 3, 2019 at 9:00 p.m.
#16
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Quoting: Trevorchef
I see what you are saying and I appreciate your insight. The stats are the stats. I just think that 2 X 2nd round picks is too much. If Georgiev was a starting goaltender, I may feel differently about it. At present, he is not. Agree to disagree I suppose. Thanks again for your feedback.


He's splitting with Hank this year. In all fairness he's a starter if Hank wasn't the other goalie.
 
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