take out the condition and Borgman and deal

So just Sanford and a 2nd. Fine by me

lmao how about 1st for Kreider 1v1?

Yeah not happening. Blues won't be giving up a first for a rental. Hence the condition mentioned.

are you saying value wise or blues just don't want to part with it initially?

More or less Blues don't want to part with it. I do think teams are starting to get away from giving up 1st round picks for rentals in general. Look at the Stone trade. Vegas was more willing to give up a blue chip prospect in Brannstrom before giving up a 1st.

but the Hayes deal tho haha

That's kind of the point. Rarely does giving up a first round pick work. Then Winnipeg traded for it back lol

Well Brannstrom was a 1st round pick so what's the difference.. Lol
Ottawa probably preferred Brannstrom to a 1st cause Brannstrom would've been further along and closer to playing with the Sens then a 1st round pick would've.

I do think you're right though that teams are starting to value 1st round picks more, Kreider isn't worth a 1st, he's worth similar to what Nyquist and Zuccarello went for at the TDL.

I think the difference is that Vegas has a great young defenseman in Hague and didn't need Brannstrom per say. They didn't want to part with a new pick though.

I would agree. Kreider's overall value is probably 2 second rounders in a no extension trade. I added Sanford to clear a roster spot.

I’m not parting a first for Kreider not happening. Definitely not worth it when we don’t even need him.

I feel ya Id do a deal with 2 2nd's and condition on them with Blues heading to finals and Kreider re-signing

This Blues to the finals clause is total bunk. Why should they pay for that? They went last year without him and are tops in the West now without him. Silly, silly clause to ask for/offer in a deal for a complimentary player.

He'd fill in the Top 6 and could give some flexibility to the lineup. Wouldn't call him a complimentary player at all. I think it's worth it if the Blues make it back to the finals.

Our top 6 is filled out fine and our line-up is already hella-flexible. Kreider would likely not be among our 8-10 most important players, and definitely not among the 6-7 most vital guys; that's the very definition of a complimentary piece. A nice one, to be sure, but still supporting cast. In fact, it would be entirely fair to argue that Sanford has been much more valuable this season relative to his cap hit than Kreider.

And the Blues may well make the finals without him. If they can go on an extended roll without Tarasenko and a few other key forwards, just imagine what they will do when everybody is back.

I disagree. I think he could end up being amongst our 8-10 important guys for a playoff run. Blues may end up being without Tarasenko even in the playoffs, it just depends on how his shoulder recovery goes plus conditioning. We can talk more value based on cap hit all we want, but the fact is Kreider is a fast heavy body who can shoot, hit, etc. he's not as good as Tank (not a whole lot are) but the Blues need more offense in case Tarasenko is out longer. And if we make the finals again, who cares about that pick? Hell we can make it a 2020 1st instead of a 2021 1st where we don't know what the Blues will do in 2020-2021. It's not a bad deal and chances are they don't make the finals again anyway so it's just kind of a throw in anyway.

Raising a pick from a 2nd to a 1st is a pretty handsome throw-in, especially in the 2020 draft. Tarasenko is historically a fast healer, I highly doubt he'll be out longer than the regular season, and probably will be back before the end of it. Either way, Kreider has been a shade off offensively for a year now (14g in his last 67gp and less than 10 at even strength, rates that can't even match Sunny and Barby). Don't get me wrong, Kreider is a solid complimentary player, and from what understand he's also a solid teammate. He's also a so-so playoff scorer and a rental that we won't be able to re-sign even if we wanted to (which is not super likely considering everything we need to do in the offseason). Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm not willing to overpay for him.

As for us making the finals again, I can't see why anyone would think our chances are less than pretty damn good.

A 1st is rich, but again it's reliant on other factors that may not come to fruition. It's basically the same Zuccarello got last year. I think the issue is Quinn's system in New York. It's more about the east-west game and not the North-South game. Kreider would be in that in st. louis