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Forums/Armchair-GM

Trade Scenario

Created by: budsallday
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Dec. 6, 2019
Published: Dec. 6, 2019
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Trades
1.
TOR
  1. 2020 4th round pick (MTL)
2.
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the CBJ
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the COL
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the STL
Logo of the WPG
2021
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2022
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
20$81,500,000$80,609,499$0$425,000$890,501
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,400,000$3,400,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,634,000$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$10,893,000$10,893,000
RW
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$775,000$775,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, C, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,200,000$3,200,000
RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
C, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$894,166$894,166 (Performance Bonus$425,000$425K)
C, RW
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$6,500,000$6,500,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,000,000$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,750,000$2,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$863,333$863,333
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,500,000$4,500,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,300,000$5,300,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,250,000$5,250,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1

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Dec. 6, 2019 at 9:29 a.m.
#1
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STL likely declines, but at the same time is it worth giving willy up if pietrangelo doesn't resign? I guess the X factor would be thomas
Dec. 6, 2019 at 10:09 a.m.
#2
mokumboi
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Quoting: leafs101
STL likely declines, but at the same time is it worth giving willy up if pietrangelo doesn't resign? I guess the X factor would be thomas



Likely????

Good grief almighty. That's a no-brainer, 10000% slam-the-phone-down hang up.
Dec. 6, 2019 at 10:18 a.m.
#3
Lets Go Blues
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Robert Thomas would be the best player on the Leafs
Dec. 6, 2019 at 6:30 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: mokumboi
Likely????

Good grief almighty. That's a no-brainer, 10000% slam-the-phone-down hang up.


is it still a no brainer if pietrangelo extension talks aren't looking to favourably? Its definitely favouring the leafs, but if pietrangelo is just a rental would it be worth it? If he is resigning then obviously this is way in favour of Toronto
Dec. 6, 2019 at 6:30 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: A_K
Robert Thomas would be the best player on the Leafs

lol as if
Dec. 6, 2019 at 9:40 p.m.
#6
mokumboi
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Quoting: leafs101
is it still a no brainer if pietrangelo extension talks aren't looking to favourably? Its definitely favouring the leafs, but if pietrangelo is just a rental would it be worth it? If he is resigning then obviously this is way in favour of Toronto



First of all, Petro is not in any hurry to do talks during the season. More to the point, this trade favors the Leafs either way. And one would need to be on Breaking Bad-caliber meth to imagine the Blues would trade their captain AND Thomas. It's pure fantasy.
Dec. 7, 2019 at 12:15 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: mokumboi
First of all, Petro is not in any hurry to do talks during the season. More to the point, this trade favors the Leafs either way. And one would need to be on Breaking Bad-caliber meth to imagine the Blues would trade their captain AND Thomas. It's pure fantasy.


ok so if petro does not resign with the blues you're saying you wouldn't want to swap Thomas for Nylander?
Dec. 7, 2019 at 2:33 p.m.
#8
mokumboi
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Quoting: leafs101
ok so if petro does not resign with the blues you're saying you wouldn't want to swap Thomas for Nylander?



First of all, Petro is going to re-sign. It just won't happen until the season is over, as we'll need to deal someone to clear cap.

But to answer your question: Hell to the no.
Dec. 7, 2019 at 4:33 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: mokumboi
First of all, Petro is going to re-sign. It just won't happen until the season is over, as we'll need to deal someone to clear cap.

But to answer your question: Hell to the no.


you really think Thomas is more valuable? really? have you seen stats?
Dec. 7, 2019 at 6:53 p.m.
#10
mokumboi
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Quoting: leafs101
you really think Thomas is more valuable? really? have you seen stats?


I've seen stats, salaries, ages, all around play on the ice, team fit, everything. So umm... yeah. Duh.
Dec. 7, 2019 at 7:37 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: mokumboi
I've seen stats, salaries, ages, all around play on the ice, team fit, everything. So umm... yeah. Duh.


stats: Nylander wins
salaries: Thomas right now but he's also still on his elc
age: both very young, but Thomas is a year or two younger
Rest are subjective, but the stats don't lie. but hey, we're both allowed our own opinions
Dec. 7, 2019 at 7:59 p.m.
#12
mokumboi
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Quoting: leafs101
stats: Nylander wins
salaries: Thomas right now but he's also still on his elc
age: both very young, but Thomas is a year or two younger
Rest are subjective, but the stats don't lie. but hey, we're both allowed our own opinions



Setting aside that points aren't the only stat that matters, Thomas is three years younger, has three years less experience and is 1/8 the salary cap hit. If you want to talk value moving forward, there's no contest.

Besides, not a day goes by without a dozen Toronto AGMs dealing Nylander away... when do you ever see a Blues AGM trying to trade Thomas? You don't, because it would be idiotic.
Dec. 7, 2019 at 8:46 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: mokumboi
Setting aside that points aren't the only stat that matters, Thomas is three years younger, has three years less experience and is 1/8 the salary cap hit. If you want to talk value moving forward, there's no contest.

Besides, not a day goes by without a dozen Toronto AGMs dealing Nylander away... when do you ever see a Blues AGM trying to trade Thomas? You don't, because it would be idiotic.


you know as well as I how stupid most leafs AGMs are and how they turn on any player instantaneously... and you do realize that Thomas is on his elc right? he will get paid, and when he does, it'll be much closer to nylanders number, but not quite as much because he's not as good. Trading Nylander for anything short of a parayko esque defenceman would be idiotic as well.
Dec. 7, 2019 at 9:10 p.m.
#14
mokumboi
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Quoting: leafs101
you know as well as I how stupid most leafs AGMs are and how they turn on any player instantaneously... and you do realize that Thomas is on his elc right? he will get paid, and when he does, it'll be much closer to nylanders number, but not quite as much because he's not as good. Trading Nylander for anything short of a parayko esque defenceman would be idiotic as well.



He won't get $7M on his second deal, and he will be at least as good offensively by the time he's Nylander's age. He's already far better in other ways. But at this point I feel the need to remind you that you're trying to convince me we should let you trade Nylander in a deal for Thomas, and not the other way around.
Dec. 8, 2019 at 3:53 p.m.
#15
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Quoting: mokumboi
He won't get $7M on his second deal, and he will be at least as good offensively by the time he's Nylander's age. He's already far better in other ways. But at this point I feel the need to remind you that you're trying to convince me we should let you trade Nylander in a deal for Thomas, and not the other way around.


no, I wouldn't do Nylander for Thomas myself. And you're right, Thomas won't get 7M because he's not as good as Nylander. 20 year old Nylander was better than 20 year old Thomas, as is 23 year old Nylander. I agree that points aren't everything, but they do matter a significant amount. Thomas is on pace for 35 as a 20 y/o, Nylander scored 60+
Dec. 8, 2019 at 6:54 p.m.
#16
mokumboi
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Quoting: leafs101
no, I wouldn't do Nylander for Thomas myself. And you're right, Thomas won't get 7M because he's not as good as Nylander. 20 year old Nylander was better than 20 year old Thomas, as is 23 year old Nylander. I agree that points aren't everything, but they do matter a significant amount. Thomas is on pace for 35 as a 20 y/o, Nylander scored 60+



Thomas won't get $7M because the Blues brass is smarter than the Leafs brass. And when counting points, you fail to factor in that Thomas has to date played significantly fewer minutes per game, has largely played out of position, starts less frequently in the O zone by a considerable margin, has had a small fraction of PP time when compared to Nylander, has had far more defensive duties (or at least has been far more capable of carrying them out) and has for the most part played with less offensively inclined linemates. And yet, since the start of last season:

Points per 60 all situations
Thomas: 2.1
Nylander: 2.1

Points per 60 at even strength
Thomas: 1.4
Nylander: 1.6

Relative goals on ice for/against
Thomas: 0.3
Nylander: 0.4

And this is with Thomas a) not yet to his full potential, b) not yet regularly used on top lines, c) not yet regularly used at his proper position & d) at 1/8 the cap hit.

By the way, you mentioned their 20yo seasons. Here's the like comparison...

Even strength points per 60
Thomas: 1.9
Nylander: 1.9

Relative goals on ice for/against
Thomas: 0
Nylander: -0.1

Nylander is currently the better player, but not by so much as you seem to think. But when it comes to total value? Uhh, it ain't Nylander.
Dec. 8, 2019 at 7:03 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: mokumboi
Thomas won't get $7M because the Blues brass is smarter than the Leafs brass. And when counting points, you fail to factor in that Thomas has to date played significantly fewer minutes per game, has largely played out of position, starts less frequently in the O zone by a considerable margin, has had a small fraction of PP time when compared to Nylander, has had far more defensive duties (or at least has been far more capable of carrying them out) and has for the most part played with less offensively inclined linemates. And yet, since the start of last season:

Points per 60 all situations
Thomas: 2.1
Nylander: 2.1

Points per 60 at even strength
Thomas: 1.4
Nylander: 1.6

Relative goals on ice for/against
Thomas: 0.3
Nylander: 0.4

And this is with Thomas a) not yet to his full potential, b) not yet regularly used on top lines, c) not yet regularly used at his proper position & d) at 1/8 the cap hit.

By the way, you mentioned their 20yo seasons. Here's the like comparison...

Even strength points per 60
Thomas: 1.9
Nylander: 1.9

Relative goals on ice for/against
Thomas: 0
Nylander: -0.1

Nylander is currently the better player, but not by so much as you seem to think. But when it comes to total value? Uhh, it ain't Nylander.


well if your using last season stats they will be close to even, but I think we both know that last year was an anomaly as he didn't start playing until December and never really caught up to pace. But now that Nylander is back on his proper pace, I bet his stats are much better than than.
Dec. 8, 2019 at 7:35 p.m.
#18
mokumboi
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Quoting: leafs101
well if your using last season stats they will be close to even, but I think we both know that last year was an anomaly as he didn't start playing until December and never really caught up to pace. But now that Nylander is back on his proper pace, I bet his stats are much better than than.



You can call it an anomaly if you'd like, but it still happened. I used stats from the past two seasons because those are the only two seasons when they both were playing. It wasn't some parlor trick.
Dec. 8, 2019 at 9:00 p.m.
#19
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Change that Gauthier trade to another team. Montreal has no interest in a Michael McCarron 2.0
 
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