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Curious Question for Leafs fans

Created by: Kyle_Davidson
Team: 2019-20 Chicago Blackhawks
Initial Creation Date: Dec. 10, 2019
Published: Dec. 10, 2019
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Has your opinion changed?

As it stands I would probably not do this trade as a result of how integral Saad and Murphy have been to the Hawks this season.

Anyways, not trying to start a fight... please be civil.
Trades
CHI
  1. Nylander, William
Additional Details:
Nylander leads Saad by seven points.
TOR
  1. Murphy, Connor
  2. Saad, Brandon
Additional Details:
Was pitched as a move to help the leafs improve defensively, they get two quality NHL players for 1. Saad won't outscore Nylander, but his 200-foot game combined with the leafs sore need for a shutdown RHD would be the difference.
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
Logo of the CHI
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2021
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Logo of the MTL
2022
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$64,359,052$0$7,665,000$17,140,948
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RW, LW
RFA - 2
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$10,500,000$10,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$778,333$778,333 (Performance Bonus$32,500$32K)
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$2,475,000$2M)
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$2,625,000$2,625,000
RW
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$1,000,000$1,000,000
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$2,500,000$2M)
C, RW
RFA - 3
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$750,000$750,000
LW, RW, C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$1,000,000$1,000,000
RW, C
UFA - 3
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$775,833$775,833 (Performance Bonus$107,500$108K)
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$4,550,000$4,550,000
LD/RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$1,200,000$1,200,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$6,000,000$6,000,000
G
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$3,333,225$3,333,225
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RD
RFA - 3
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$1,400,000$1,400,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$6,875,000$6,875,000
RD
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$925,000$925,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$1,500,000$1,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$5,538,462$5,538,462
LD
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$3,900,000$3,900,000
C, RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$3,250,000$3,250,000
LW, C
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$925,000$925,000
LD
UFA - 2

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Dec. 10, 2019 at 12:09 p.m.
#1
v5 CBJ GM
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Doesn't help Leafs' cap situation
Maybe retain some stuf on Saad
Dec. 10, 2019 at 12:10 p.m.
#2
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Kyle from Chicago
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Quoting: MaxDomi13
Doesn't help Leafs' cap situation
Maybe retain some stuf on Saad


Forget the cap situation for a sec, give me your opinion on the player for player transfer.
Dec. 10, 2019 at 12:12 p.m.
#3
Benny
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Saad's best years are behind him IMO, and Nylander's are up coming, I don't do that trade
Dec. 10, 2019 at 12:12 p.m.
#4
v5 CBJ GM
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Quoting: Stan_Bowman
Forget the cap situation for a sec, give me your opinion on the player for player transfer.


I don't know

Nylander>Saad
Nylander>Murphy
but

Nylander <> Saad+Murphy
Dec. 10, 2019 at 12:13 p.m.
#5
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Kyle from Chicago
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Quoting: Laquille
Saad's best years are behind him IMO, and Nylander's are up coming, I don't do that trade


Saad is actually in one of his best years (Advanced stats wise) currently. I think Saad and Murphy also fit in better with your contention window than Nylander. However, a valid point.
Dec. 10, 2019 at 12:14 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: Stan_Bowman
Forget the cap situation for a sec, give me your opinion on the player for player transfer.


Nylanders upside is significant compared to Saad, yes Saad is rougher but truthfully is kinda pointless if you don't have the soft Nylander on his line, I absolutely would love to see Murphy in a Leafs jersey with Rielly, but would be more inclined to offer up Kapenen, Johansson the 2020 2nd rnd for Shaw and Murphy
Dec. 10, 2019 at 12:17 p.m.
#7
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Kyle from Chicago
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Quoting: Boomer125
Nylanders upside is significant compared to Saad, yes Saad is rougher but truthfully is kinda pointless if you don't have the soft Nylander on his line, I absolutely would love to see Murphy in a Leafs jersey with Rielly, but would be more inclined to offer up Kapenen, Johansson the 2020 2nd rnd for Shaw and Murphy


OK Boomer.

*Cringe intensifies*

Understandable, I am just wondering where leafs fans stand on this.
Dec. 10, 2019 at 12:21 p.m.
#8
GM Hockeysaurus Rex
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Without taking cap into consideration. I would consider it mainly fair deal for both sides. Both players coming back are still young (none are better than William Nylander who is integral part of the Leafs team. I loooove Saad. He is this generations Hossa imo and would get scoring on that level as well. Murphy is shutdown defensive defenseman that is very good and fitting with the Leafs. I think Leafs wont do this type of deal, but I really do like the pieces coming back (and I think Saad would flourish in Toronto with Matthews. Like 60-70 point two way amazing player flourish).
Dec. 10, 2019 at 12:24 p.m.
#9
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Kyle from Chicago
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Quoting: SammyT_51
Without taking cap into consideration. I would consider it mainly fair deal for both sides. Both players coming back are still young (none are better than William Nylander who is integral part of the Leafs team. I loooove Saad. He is this generations Hossa imo and would get scoring on that level as well. Murphy is shutdown defensive defenseman that is very good and fitting with the Leafs. I think Leafs wont do this type of deal, but I really do like the pieces coming back (and I think Saad would flourish in Toronto with Matthews. Like 60-70 point two way amazing player flourish).


That was actually one of my arguments when these types of posts were originally going on. Just for perspective's sake, this was a hard no from the leaf's fans at the start of the summer. Nice to know that some leaf fan's perspectives have changed.
Dec. 10, 2019 at 12:31 p.m.
#10
GM Hockeysaurus Rex
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Quoting: Stan_Bowman
That was actually one of my arguments when these types of posts were originally going on. Just for perspective's sake, this was a hard no from the leaf's fans at the start of the summer. Nice to know that some leaf fan's perspectives have changed.


I was pretty high on Saad all the time, but offers of him straight up for Nylander were unappealing. Not good. Nylander is amazing kid.. Saad is what? freshly 27? Thats barely after RFA stage.. he is very good player. People need to realize how good Saad is. Not as good as Nylander, but better than they think.
Dec. 10, 2019 at 12:37 p.m.
#11
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Its going to be the same answer for ever. Murphy doesn't move the needle enough to warrant a big return and Saad isn't nearly as good as Nylander. Nylander is only getting better and has been one of the best Leafs all year. This is an overpayment. Nylander isn't getting traded. End of discussion. Murphy and something for Ceci and Johnsson is a possibility though.
Dec. 10, 2019 at 12:39 p.m.
#12
exo2769
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Edited Dec. 10, 2019 at 1:08 p.m.
Do I think Nylander is the best player in the deal??? Yes, but barely. I can understand the argument that he's younger. I can also understand the argument that IF his best years are ahead of him that he'll be worth the cap. But that's where I differ from most Leafs fans. I just have a hard time hearing for 3 straight years that the best years are still ahead of him...AND YET...how ironic that he's on pace for exactly 61 points...AGAIN. First of all, let's all at least agree that's a bit ironic. Career high of 61 points (twice) and trending toward exactly 61 points again for the 3rd time.

I think Nylander does a nice job of carrying the pace of play. Something the Hawks need to do a better job of to be honest. I just see too many similarities in how the Hawks FEEL about Saad (AND his history!) vs how the Leafs FEEL about Nylander. Very different types of players of course, but surprisingly close results and the cap delta justifies the stat delta. Style of play suits each team differently. NYI would probably prefer Saad over Nylander's style of play where TOR and PIT would probably prefer Nylander's style of play.

I wouldn't do the trade because we need Murphy on the back end. He and DeHaan have been what the Hawks were missing last year. If we could get a 3rd one of these guys, I'd do it. Not 1 less of these guys.
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Dec. 10, 2019 at 12:40 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: Stan_Bowman
That was actually one of my arguments when these types of posts were originally going on. Just for perspective's sake, this was a hard no from the leaf's fans at the start of the summer. Nice to know that some leaf fan's perspectives have changed.


There's no chance I'd move Nylander for those two guys. If you are going to trade a player as good as Nylander is (and will be for the next 5-8 years) you want somebody who can make an equal impact. Both of these guys are solid NHL players, but Murphy is a 2nd or 3rd pairing guy ideally and Saad maybe helps the Leafs third line. That is not equivalent value for what Nylander brings. That's not to say they are not good players, I just think Toronto loses out on value with this deal.
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Dec. 10, 2019 at 1:09 p.m.
#14
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It is an interesting proposal, but people who look at this will see only the upside of Nylander, not the superior defensive side Saad & Murphy. If I was Dubas, I would try and milk a draft pick out of it as well.

As a Hawk fan, I don’t want Nylander’s cap. He hasn’t sold me yet he is worth that yet.
Dec. 10, 2019 at 1:09 p.m.
#15
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Quoting: exo2769
Do I think Nylander is the best player in the deal??? Yes, but barely. I can understand the argument that he's younger. I can also understand the argument that IF his best years are ahead of him that he'll be worth the cap. But that's where I differ from most Leafs fans. I just have a hard time hearing for 3 straight years that the best years are still ahead of him...AND YET...how ironic that he's on pace for exactly 61 points...AGAIN. First of all, let's all at least agree that's a bit ironic. Career high of 61 points (twice) and trending toward exactly 61 points again for the 3rd time!

I think Nylander does a nice job of carrying the pace of play. Something the Hawks need to do a better job of to be honest. I just see too many similarities in how the Hawks FEEL about Saad (AND his history!) vs how the Leafs FEEL about Nylander. Very different types of players of course, but surprisingly close results and the cap delta justifies the stat delta. Style of play suits each team differently. NYI would probably prefer Saad over Nylander's style of play where TOR and PIT would probably prefer Nylander's style of play.

I wouldn't do the trade because we need Murphy on the back end. He and DeHaan have been what the Hawks were missing last year. If we could get a 3rd one of these guys, I'd do it. Not 1 less of these guys.


Nylander has I think 13 or 14 points in his last 14 or 15 games. Under Keefe he's been better and better. With Babs gone and Nylander being actually valued by the coach, he's going to play a lot more and get more opportunities than ever before. The days of him getting 15 minutes a night are over. If you actually look at the advanced stats for Nylander, he creates offensive chances per 60 at a super elite rate. Something like top 20 league wide but he's never played more than below average 2nd liner minutes. Mainly because Babs was so stubborn.

This Nylander isn't worth his contract nonsense is all going to end very soon.
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Dec. 10, 2019 at 1:17 p.m.
#16
exo2769
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Nylander has I think 13 or 14 points in his last 14 or 15 games. Under Keefe he's been better and better. With Babs gone and Nylander being actually valued by the coach, he's going to play a lot more and get more opportunities than ever before. The days of him getting 15 minutes a night are over. If you actually look at the advanced stats for Nylander, he creates offensive chances per 60 at a super elite rate. Something like top 20 league wide but he's never played more than below average 2nd liner minutes. Mainly because Babs was so stubborn.

This Nylander isn't worth his contract nonsense is all going to end very soon.


So here's my question for you (and all Leafs fans really). I thought Nylander's play got better NOT because of Keefe (He's really be invisible the last 5 games) BUT more so because Marner was hurt. What do you think?

That sentence can be interpreted many different ways. Some may take it that Nylander's undervalued because he doesn't get the ice time or the #1PP role that he deserves and this proves it...OR...Some may take that as...Keefe gave them a short bump in excitement because there's a such thing as addition through subtraction. They got rid of the negative and that "high" or excitement is fading...OR many others.
Dec. 10, 2019 at 1:24 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: exo2769
So here's my question for you (and all Leafs fans really). I thought Nylander's play got better NOT because of Keefe (He's really be invisible the last 5 games) BUT more so because Marner was hurt. What do you think?

That sentence can be interpreted many different ways. Some may take it that Nylander's undervalued because he doesn't get the ice time or the #1PP role that he deserves and this proves it...OR...Some may take that as...Keefe gave them a short bump in excitement because there's a such thing as addition through subtraction. They got rid of the negative and that "high" or excitement is fading...OR many others.


I think you like to look for reasons to lower the value of Nylander so he can be traded for less than what he's worth. He's a terrific player and I think one of the best players on the team. There are few NHLers who create more chances per 60 minutes than Nylander.
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Dec. 10, 2019 at 1:25 p.m.
#18
exo2769
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
I think you like to look for reasons to lower the value of Nylander so he can be traded for less than what he's worth. He's a terrific player and I think one of the best players on the team. There are few NHLers who create more chances per 60 minutes than Nylander.


ok, thanks for not answering the question....oh and you won't see 1 single team that I post that has the Hawks trading for Nylander.
Dec. 10, 2019 at 1:31 p.m.
#19
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Quoting: exo2769
ok, thanks for not answering the question.


Dude, you don't like Nylander, you've made that abundantly clear. He's been terrific for the most part under Keefe, (the philly game was really ugly as was the Buffalo one, although Hutch is just really bad) . He's been far more engaged, dominated possession wise and still has put up 6 points in 8 games despite his trigger man going through a mini 5 game slump. I'd wager he'll be back to above a point a game now that Matthews is hopefully back on a heater.
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Dec. 10, 2019 at 1:42 p.m.
#20
hey look a squirrel
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Leafs decline.
Dec. 11, 2019 at 1:11 a.m.
#21
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your right, I wouldn't do it either. Too much for Nylander.
 
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