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Big time Anaheim trade

Created by: Bcarlo25
Team: 2019-20 Boston Bruins
Initial Creation Date: Dec. 10, 2019
Published: Dec. 10, 2019
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
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I expect a healthy ration of crap from those who don't know who matt grzelcyk is. He's a damn stud, and the bruins won't part with him without something major coming back. Anaheim gets two young NHL roster players, a 1st, and an NHL vet that's still a good player. Doubt that it's enough. If Anaheim doesn't want to keep john moore, and i'm guessing they'll want to keep him around, they can expose him in the expansion draft. Miller has to get moved when he's ready to come back from LTIR
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$77,124,445$0$2,220,000$4,375,555
Left WingCentreRight Wing
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$6,125,000$6,125,000
LW
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RW, LW
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$7,250,000$7,250,000
C
M-NTC
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$2,600,000$2,600,000
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$1,275,000$1,275,000
C, LW
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C, RW
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LW, RW
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G
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LD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
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$2,850,000$2,850,000
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$2,750,000$2,750,000
G
UFA - 1
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$2,000,000$2,000,000 (Performance Bonus$1,750,000$2M)
LD
NMC
UFA - 1
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$725,000$725,000 (Performance Bonus$20,000$20K)
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UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
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$850,000$850,000
LW, C
UFA - 2
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$750,000$750,000
RW
UFA - 1
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$800,000$800,000
RD
UFA - 2
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$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$450,000$450K)
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RD
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Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:16 p.m.
#1
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ANA gives up: one of two or three best forwards when healthy on a steal of a contract AND a legit number 1 d man also on a steal of a contract, both with term
ANA receives: nothing nothing good top 4 option late first.... Hard pass from me chief
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Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:19 p.m.
#2
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I like it. It's close. I think it needs to be Heinen over Bjork though. Maybe a mid rd pick coming back.

I am woefully ignorant on Lindholm. who would you compare him to?

They would lose a really really good player in expansion. Not that they won't now
Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:19 p.m.
#3
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This is so bad lmfao. Why would ANA give up their best winger and best defenseman for a later 1st, top 4 dman, and some scraps.
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Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:22 p.m.
#4
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Lindholm should get a return better than Muzzin did, as he's a higher ceiling defenseman locked up to a fairly long term and team-friendly contract. So start with a 1st round pick, an A prospect, and a B prospect. Kase is 2nd and a quality prospect, if not a 1st himself.

Grzelcyk might be a stud, but he's 25 and will be a free agent with arbitration rights. If he's as great as you say, that means he'll get a hefty pay raise over a short term and likely go the way of Jacob Trouba very soon.

So if you're trading for both Kase and Lindholm, you're looking at a 1st round pick, a 2nd round pick, an A prospect, a B prospect, and a roster player. Let's say Grzelyck is fantastic and can fill both of the B prospect and roster player slots. You're still looking at the Bruins' 2020 1st round pick, their 2021 2nd round pick, Grzelcyk, and one of Studnika or Beecher. They'll take Moore if you need the cap space, but he's not going to add any value to the trade.
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Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:22 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: AFOX10900
ANA gives up: one of two or three best forwards when healthy on a steal of a contract AND a legit number 1 d man also on a steal of a contract, both with term
ANA receives: nothing nothing good top 4 option late first.... Hard pass from me chief


Bjork and Grzelcyk are better than you are giving them credit for. Bjork struggled with injury up until this year. He has looked really good this year. He's been playing Bottom six and PK. He is really meant for a top 6 roll. his production would be double if he were playing with more skill.
Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:24 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: JayBeagleFanAccount
This is so bad lmfao. Why would ANA give up their best winger and best defenseman for a later 1st, top 4 dman, and some scraps.


Anaheim best winger has 1 less goal than Bjork and 3 more points playing in Top 6
Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:25 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: Propeller09
Bjork and Grzelcyk are better than you are giving them credit for. Bjork struggled with injury up until this year. He has looked really good this year. He's been playing Bottom six and PK. He is really meant for a top 6 roll. his production would be double if he were playing with more skill.


He's an ok player, but hardly relevant at all compared to what's coming back, and I'm not underestimating Gryz at all, he's a solid top 4 d man, ideally not a first pairing guy, but a guy I'd be very very happy with on the second pair
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Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:26 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: Propeller09
Anaheim best winger has 1 less goal than Bjork and 3 more points playing in Top 6


If youre only judging players by point totals please rethink being a fan of the nhl
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Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:27 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: tkecanuck341
Lindholm should get a return better than Muzzin did, as he's a higher ceiling defenseman locked up to a fairly long term and team-friendly contract. So start with a 1st round pick, an A prospect, and a B prospect. Kase is 2nd and a quality prospect, if not a 1st himself.

Grzelcyk might be a stud, but he's 25 and will be a free agent with arbitration rights. If he's as great as you say, that means he'll get a hefty pay raise over a short term and likely go the way of Jacob Trouba very soon.

So if you're trading for both Kase and Lindholm, you're looking at a 1st round pick, a 2nd round pick, an A prospect, a B prospect, and a roster player. Let's say Grzelyck is fantastic and can fill both of the B prospect and roster player slots. You're still looking at the Bruins' 2020 1st round pick, their 2021 2nd round pick, Grzelcyk, and one of Studnika or Beecher. They'll take Moore if you need the cap space, but he's not going to add any value to the trade.


There is almost a zero percent chance the Bruins part with Beecher or Studnicka. They have two mid 30's centers who are battling hip/core injuries. These are their replacements.
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Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:28 p.m.
#10
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Bcarlo25
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Quoting: AFOX10900
ANA gives up: one of two or three best forwards when healthy on a steal of a contract AND a legit number 1 d man also on a steal of a contract, both with term
ANA receives: nothing nothing good top 4 option late first.... Hard pass from me chief


that's fair, you don't know who grizz or bjork are. I think that's the initial reaction i was expecting. So, here's the issue, Kase isn't that good. I like him, but he's a half point per game player for his career. Good 30 game stretch last year? Sure. He's a fringe top 6, but a solid middle 6 guy. Not a first liner. I will admit that I thought he was of age to be UFA at the end of this deal, but he's not, so it's a real good contract. Lindholm is awesome, but is that the league wide perception? Is that Anaheims perception? He's playing under 22 minutes a night this year. His production is down. Fowler is playing a lot more, so I'm not s sure anaheim thinks of him as a legit number 1. I don't think it's enough, but teams that are starting to incorporate analytics love grzelcyk, almost more than me. he's a major piece.
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Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:32 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: Bcarlo25
that's fair, you don't know who grizz or bjork are. I think that's the initial reaction i was expecting. So, here's the issue, Kase isn't that good. I like him, but he's a half point per game player for his career. Good 30 game stretch last year? Sure. He's a fringe top 6, but a solid middle 6 guy. Not a first liner. I will admit that I thought he was of age to be UFA at the end of this deal, but he's not, so it's a real good contract. Lindholm is awesome, but is that the league wide perception? Is that Anaheims perception? He's playing under 22 minutes a night this year. His production is down. Fowler is playing a lot more, so I'm not s sure anaheim thinks of him as a legit number 1. I don't think it's enough, but teams that are starting to incorporate analytics love grzelcyk, almost more than me. he's a major piece.


Teams that incorporate analytics also recognize that Bjorks is a league average third liner, Gryz is really good, and Lindholm and Kase are legit 1 RW and D man respectively, so you're argument for why this would be close in ANA's mind is gone, they either use analytics and realize they're getting bent over or don't use analytics and see Gryz as a bottom pairing guy...
Edit: note my post above or try to find any of the trades I made over the summer where I would give up a first round pick+decent spec to get Gryz...
Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:32 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: tkecanuck341
Lindholm should get a return better than Muzzin did, as he's a higher ceiling defenseman locked up to a fairly long term and team-friendly contract. So start with a 1st round pick, an A prospect, and a B prospect. Kase is 2nd and a quality prospect, if not a 1st himself.

Grzelcyk might be a stud, but he's 25 and will be a free agent with arbitration rights. If he's as great as you say, that means he'll get a hefty pay raise over a short term and likely go the way of Jacob Trouba very soon.

So if you're trading for both Kase and Lindholm, you're looking at a 1st round pick, a 2nd round pick, an A prospect, a B prospect, and a roster player. Let's say Grzelyck is fantastic and can fill both of the B prospect and roster player slots. You're still looking at the Bruins' 2020 1st round pick, their 2021 2nd round pick, Grzelcyk, and one of Studnika or Beecher. They'll take Moore if you need the cap space, but he's not going to add any value to the trade.


well, i thought we could stay on planet earth for this discussion.

I'll keep my rebuttle simple, points get paid in this league. Grizz isn't a huge point guy with Krug taking all the PP time. So while he may be worth more, I don't think Anaheim would struggle to get him to sign 5x4.25. You just got three more years than you would have out of lindholm. You get a pretty solid third pairing D that can fill in for 2nd pair if theres injuries in moore. Pretty cheap too. Bjork is a good young roster player that's starting to get on the score sheet a bit. Idk. I feel like you kind of just didn't even look at what this trade was and just spewed Studnicka or beecher for some reason. odd.
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Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:33 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: AFOX10900
Teams that incorporate analytics also recognize that Bjorks is a league average third liner, Gryz is really good, and Lindholm and Kase are legit 1 RW and D man respectively, so you're argument for why this would be close in ANA's mind is gone, they either use analytics and realize they're getting bent over or don't use analytics and see Gryz as a bottom pairing guy...


Kase a number one RW.

What league are we talking about here?

I'll add that I kind of doubt that you have any idea what people think about Bjork.
Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:35 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: Propeller09
Bjork and Grzelcyk are better than you are giving them credit for. Bjork struggled with injury up until this year. He has looked really good this year. He's been playing Bottom six and PK. He is really meant for a top 6 roll. his production would be double if he were playing with more skill.


Nobody is saying they're bad.

What everybody is saying is that they still don't even come close to Lindholm and Kase
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Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:37 p.m.
#15
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Quoting: JayBeagleFanAccount
If youre only judging players by point totals please rethink being a fan of the nhl


I'm not. Kase's Corsi is higher, but Fenwick is lower than Bjork.

Bjork is killing Penalties. His PDO is higher than Kase's.

He has pretty much a 50/50 offensive/defensive zone start split. Meanwhile Kase is somewhat protected starting 56% of the time in the ozone.

Bjork is more than likely much faster.

All that with 2m less of ice time a game and far less skill beside him.


Need more?

He was a Captain at ND and had 52pts in 39 games. 1.33ppg which is a pretty decent mark for a good D1 school
For quick reference Caufield is currently at 1.11ppg and Zegras is at 1.06ppg. None of this proves anything other than pedigree, but I am not sure what else I can provide as proof Bjork is a legit NHL player with a ton of talent and very high ceiling.


Perhaps you shouldn't comment if you aren't able to google a player.
Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:38 p.m.
#16
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Quoting: Bcarlo25
Kase a number one RW.

What league are we talking about here?

I'll add that I kind of doubt that you have any idea what people think about Bjork.


He has 11pts and 3 goals. SUPERSTAR! I might play him over Pastrank on PP
Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:40 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: PenGoater99
Nobody is saying they're bad.

What everybody is saying is that they still don't even come close to Lindholm and Kase


I said in my description I doubt this would be enough, but I think it's really close. Kase just isn't that impressive. He's a third liner on a team that isn't trash. He's 7th on the ducks in scoring,and the ducks stink!

Given the general response to this, take out Kase! He's nice depth but you guys are making it sound like he's gretzky. On the bruins he's a guy taht fills in on the second line to see if it sticks in hopes of another trade not being forced.
Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:40 p.m.
#18
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Quoting: Propeller09
I'm not. Kase's Corsi is higher, but Fenwick is lower than Bjork.

Bjork is killing Penalties. His PDO is higher than Kase's.

He has pretty much a 50/50 offensive/defensive zone start split. Meanwhile Kase is somewhat protected starting 56% of the time in the ozone.

Bjork is more than likely much faster.

All that with 2m less of ice time a game and far less skill beside him.


Need more?

He was a Captain at ND and had 52pts in 39 games. 1.33ppg which is a pretty decent mark for a good D1 school
For quick reference Caufield is currently at 1.11ppg and Zegras is at 1.06ppg. None of this proves anything other than pedigree, but I am not sure what else I can provide as proof Bjork is a legit NHL player with a ton of talent and very high ceiling.


Perhaps you shouldn't comment if you aren't able to google a player.


Wow.

How could we forget the mighty zone starts and college PPG stats????? You, sir, should work for an NHL team
Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:41 p.m.
#19
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Quoting: Propeller09
I'm not. Kase's Corsi is higher, but Fenwick is lower than Bjork.

Bjork is killing Penalties. His PDO is higher than Kase's.

He has pretty much a 50/50 offensive/defensive zone start split. Meanwhile Kase is somewhat protected starting 56% of the time in the ozone.

Bjork is more than likely much faster.

All that with 2m less of ice time a game and far less skill beside him.


Need more?

He was a Captain at ND and had 52pts in 39 games. 1.33ppg which is a pretty decent mark for a good D1 school
For quick reference Caufield is currently at 1.11ppg and Zegras is at 1.06ppg. None of this proves anything other than pedigree, but I am not sure what else I can provide as proof Bjork is a legit NHL player with a ton of talent and very high ceiling.


Perhaps you shouldn't comment if you aren't able to google a player.


Higher PDO=more luck, not better player... There's another stat that says like 90% of shifts are started in the neutral zone or on the fly so zone starts are basically irrelevant, and Kase's rel stats (ik rel isn't the best, but it's not bad) are absurdly good, and he's been somewhat consistent over the past few years, using more than a 25-30 game sample size...
Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:42 p.m.
#20
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Bcarlo25
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Quoting: Propeller09
I'm not. Kase's Corsi is higher, but Fenwick is lower than Bjork.

Bjork is killing Penalties. His PDO is higher than Kase's.

He has pretty much a 50/50 offensive/defensive zone start split. Meanwhile Kase is somewhat protected starting 56% of the time in the ozone.

Bjork is more than likely much faster.

All that with 2m less of ice time a game and far less skill beside him.


Need more?

He was a Captain at ND and had 52pts in 39 games. 1.33ppg which is a pretty decent mark for a good D1 school
For quick reference Caufield is currently at 1.11ppg and Zegras is at 1.06ppg. None of this proves anything other than pedigree, but I am not sure what else I can provide as proof Bjork is a legit NHL player with a ton of talent and very high ceiling.


Perhaps you shouldn't comment if you aren't able to google a player.


I think you bring up a really good point that i failed to articulate. Bjork has a super high ceiling. Honestly, I'm not all that high on him, but that's the thing that he's always had going for him. He's got elite talent. If he puts it together, which I doubt will ever happen, he'll be a significant player in this league. Teams pay for those tools.
Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:42 p.m.
#21
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Quoting: Bcarlo25
I said in my description I doubt this would be enough, but I think it's really close. Kase just isn't that impressive. He's a third liner on a team that isn't trash. He's 7th on the ducks in scoring,and the ducks stink!

Given the general response to this, take out Kase! He's nice depth but you guys are making it sound like he's gretzky. On the bruins he's a guy taht fills in on the second line to see if it sticks in hopes of another trade not being forced.


Ok but there's literally nothing out there that suggests he's a 3rd liner. He's been an unreal play driver and if I remember correctly, he's near the top of the league in GAR since 2016 (could be wrong there).

You're not getting a bonafide top 2 LHD on a steal of a contract and a top line RW for inferior players and a throwaway late 1st rounder
Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:42 p.m.
#22
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Quoting: AFOX10900
Teams that incorporate analytics also recognize that Bjorks is a league average third liner, Gryz is really good, and Lindholm and Kase are legit 1 RW and D man respectively, so you're argument for why this would be close in ANA's mind is gone, they either use analytics and realize they're getting bent over or don't use analytics and see Gryz as a bottom pairing guy...
Edit: note my post above or try to find any of the trades I made over the summer where I would give up a first round pick+decent spec to get Gryz...


Can you send me a link to said analytics? The ones that say Bjork is a 3rd liner and Kase is a 1st liner. The actual analytics don't support that.
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Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:44 p.m.
#23
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Quoting: PenGoater99
Wow.

How could we forget the mighty zone starts and college PPG stats????? You, sir, should work for an NHL team


He's pointing out something you're unaware of. Mocking him probably isn't the best strategy. I don't know a bunch about the majority of the prospects or younger players in pittsburgh. If you use some evidence to illustrate how the guy has a high ceiling, I'm not going to mock you for that. That would be just kind of dumb. There is a significant case to be made that Bjork has more value than Kase.
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Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:44 p.m.
#24
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Quoting: Propeller09
I'm not. Kase's Corsi is higher, but Fenwick is lower than Bjork.

Bjork is killing Penalties. His PDO is higher than Kase's.

He has pretty much a 50/50 offensive/defensive zone start split. Meanwhile Kase is somewhat protected starting 56% of the time in the ozone.

Bjork is more than likely much faster.

All that with 2m less of ice time a game and far less skill beside him.


Need more?

He was a Captain at ND and had 52pts in 39 games. 1.33ppg which is a pretty decent mark for a good D1 school
For quick reference Caufield is currently at 1.11ppg and Zegras is at 1.06ppg. None of this proves anything other than pedigree, but I am not sure what else I can provide as proof Bjork is a legit NHL player with a ton of talent and very high ceiling.


Perhaps you shouldn't comment if you aren't able to google a player.


Look at Kase's 3 year sample of GAR, GAR rates, RAPM, possession metrics and it's all better than Bjork's. Bjork is a fine player but Kase blows him out of the water, PDO is a measure of being lucky basically so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, same with mentioning his stats in college when he's 23 and has only played 73 NHL games.
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Dec. 10, 2019 at 4:46 p.m.
#25
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Quoting: Propeller09
There is almost a zero percent chance the Bruins part with Beecher or Studnicka. They have two mid 30's centers who are battling hip/core injuries. These are their replacements.


I don't disagree. Likewise there is a very low chance that the Ducks will part with Lindholm. Kase might get moved, but only if the price is right.
 
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