SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Armchair-GM

Subban

Created by: Sk8trGurl
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Dec. 12, 2019
Published: Dec. 12, 2019
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Trades
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the CBJ
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the COL
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the STL
Logo of the WPG
2021
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2022
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$81,302,699$0$0$197,301

Roster

Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$10,893,000$10,893,000
RW
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,200,000$3,200,000
RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,634,000$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$775,000$775,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
C, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$775,000$775,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,750,000$2,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,000,000$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the New Jersey Devils
$9,000,000$9,000,000
RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$863,333$863,333
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$675,000$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,300,000$5,300,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$675,000$675,000
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,250,000$5,250,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1

Embed Code

  • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
  • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

Text-Embed

Click to Highlight
Dec. 12, 2019 at 8:41 p.m.
#1
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2018
Posts: 3,490
Likes: 1,559
Oh dear.....
Dec. 12, 2019 at 8:43 p.m.
#2
HonestHockeyNYI
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2019
Posts: 309
Likes: 278
He's a decent power play QB, but more of a big name at this point. Also...that's a lot going the other way.
Dec. 12, 2019 at 8:59 p.m.
#3
Former Hockey Fan
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2017
Posts: 13,144
Likes: 10,516
Somehow you have added a tonne of assets to Cody Ceci, to get a player as good as Cody Ceci, at twice the cap hit.
Sign_em_up000000 and palhal liked this.
Dec. 12, 2019 at 9:23 p.m.
#4
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2015
Posts: 59,072
Likes: 22,466
Ceci is OK, and Subban is probably not as good as Ceci right now. Absolutely horrid trade proposal for the Leafs. Subban at 50% retained for Ceci might be fair, but Leafs probably don't want the extra two years of Subban at even 4.5m
Kotkaniemi15 liked this.
Dec. 12, 2019 at 9:44 p.m.
#5
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 17
Likes: 1
I can see from the early responses that this proposal is not well received. But hear me out.

First lets look at the player heading to the Leafs, Subban: an elite game changing defenceman who skates and sees the ice well, brings some needed physicality, can QB a powerplay, and who's stock is currently trading low. Yes, he may be passed his prime but he's still young enough to make an impact for another two years after this season. Yes, it's a huge price tag, but a rejuvenated Subban playing in his hometown might just revert to the dominant defender he's been for a decade. He solidifies the Leafs top four because he can be effectively used in a shutdown role and log big minutes.

Next, the players leaving: nobody is shedding a tear over the departure of Ceci, he's essentially salary ballast and a replacement for the RHD leaving the Devils. Sad to see Timoshov go but with the current situation he's likely claimed if put on waivers. Undersized Kerfoot, is probably not a natural center, and while possessing a strong skill set still sits at a mere 9 points on the season, and any hesitation to move him could be rooted in the fact that it exposes the Kadri trade as a disaster. Johnsson is tough to give up, he's played adequately but hasn't excelled considering his linemates, and the old saying goes that you've got to give something to get something.
Boomer125 liked this.
Dec. 12, 2019 at 10:22 p.m.
#6
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,640
Likes: 2,513
That is a great trade for the leafs, well done, Jersy accepts.
Dec. 12, 2019 at 10:47 p.m.
#7
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2015
Posts: 59,072
Likes: 22,466
Quoting: Sk8trGurl
I can see from the early responses that this proposal is not well received. But hear me out.

First lets look at the player heading to the Leafs, Subban: an elite game changing defenceman who skates and sees the ice well, brings some needed physicality, can QB a powerplay, and who's stock is currently trading low. Yes, he may be passed his prime but he's still young enough to make an impact for another two years after this season. Yes, it's a huge price tag, but a rejuvenated Subban playing in his hometown might just revert to the dominant defender he's been for a decade. He solidifies the Leafs top four because he can be effectively used in a shutdown role and log big minutes.

Next, the players leaving: nobody is shedding a tear over the departure of Ceci, he's essentially salary ballast and a replacement for the RHD leaving the Devils. Sad to see Timoshov go but with the current situation he's likely claimed if put on waivers. Undersized Kerfoot, is probably not a natural center, and while possessing a strong skill set still sits at a mere 9 points on the season, and any hesitation to move him could be rooted in the fact that it exposes the Kadri trade as a disaster. Johnsson is tough to give up, he's played adequately but hasn't excelled considering his linemates, and the old saying goes that you've got to give something to get something.


Sorry you're talking about the past. The current edition of Subban certainly the player you described. He just isn't a good player even at 50% retention. And Ceci has been OK. He has probably been the best RHD this season...despite the rants from the unknowingly CapFriendly.
. The Kadri trade wasn't a disaster. Kerfoot and Barrie for Kadri. While Barrie hasn't been good for the first third of season, he has played better lately and the Leafs sure need him at RHD this year.
Kotkaniemi15 liked this.
Dec. 12, 2019 at 10:54 p.m.
#8
Former Hockey Fan
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2017
Posts: 13,144
Likes: 10,516
Quoting: Sk8trGurl
Subban: an elite game changing defenceman who skates and sees the ice well, brings some needed physicality, can QB a powerplay.


I think you are mistaken. You are thinking of the PK Subban of 3 years ago, that man no longer exists. This version of PK Subban is not elite, and is game changing, but in a negative way. He does not skate well, and doesn’t have exceptional vision, in fact his defensive awareness is downright horrible. His “physicality” consists of pushing and hacking at people until he gets a penalty, or trying to hit someone, but the player receiving the hit stays on their feet. Most times PK will be beat by the opposing player and end up on his heels, forced to either take a penalty or hope the goalie can save it. One example of this is the inordinate amount of times that he ends up diving or falling on the ice after a shot against. And yes, while this PK Subban may be a decent PP QB, there are many better options out there. Particularly ones that can withstand a rush down the ice by the other team without ending up on their ass.
HabsForEver and palhal liked this.
Dec. 12, 2019 at 11:34 p.m.
#9
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 17
Likes: 1
As I conceded before, Subban is certainly not playing like the Subban of old right now, and I think these criticisms wouldn't be so severe if he wasn't making the money he is. I maintain that with a change of scenery and some home cooking he can return to his former self and be a positive, albeit expensive, addition to this squad. But are the Leafs a better team as a result, and would the Devils make the deal? The answer is yes.

First, if you are New Jersey you are getting three young somewhat affordable talents and a player who is admittedly at the very least an okay rearguard, but is off the books at the end of the year. They are rebuilding and this deal would make sense to them.

Secondly, If you are Toronto you are getting an upgrade (honestly) with Subban over Ceci in every area of the game. As mentioned, he really brings that four man D unit together because of his versatility, leadership, and energy. The PP is improved. The PK is improved. And he'd be a little sheltered in the second pairing anyway.

Thirdly, take a look at the third line. Before, you had Johnsson (who's more suited as a third liner) at $3.4M and the diminutive Kerfoot taking home $3.5M, whereas now those spots would be occupied by Mikheyev and Engvall, both earning $925,000. That's a $6M saving. Toronto would be a bigger team too without losing any speed or tenacity.
Dec. 13, 2019 at 1:19 a.m.
#10
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 17
Likes: 1
With respect to the Kadri trade, I appreciate what you've said, but another way to look at it is that Toronto could have kept the long serving blue-bleeding homeboy (despite his repeated bouts of playoff idiocy) and continued with the Leafs being regarded as maybe the deepest team at center in the league. Kardi is plainly better than Kerfoot in every regard.

By the numbers, Kerfoot makes $3.5M and with Barrie's $2.75M that's $6.25M between them. Subtracting Kadri's $4.5M salary that leaves $1.75M. If Toronto had walked away from Ceci after arbitration, that would have been an extra $4.5M, making it the familiar total of $6.25M that they would have had to spend on a free agent defenceman. This also likely would have allowed Sandin to make the team (deservedly) out of training camp instead of being a victim to a cap crunch.

I know which way I think the Leaf's would have been better off but everyone's got their own opinions I guess...
Dec. 13, 2019 at 7:06 a.m.
#11
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2015
Posts: 59,072
Likes: 22,466
Quoting: Sk8trGurl
With respect to the Kadri trade, I appreciate what you've said, but another way to look at it is that Toronto could have kept the long serving blue-bleeding homeboy (despite his repeated bouts of playoff idiocy) and continued with the Leafs being regarded as maybe the deepest team at center in the league. Kardi is plainly better than Kerfoot in every regard.

By the numbers, Kerfoot makes $3.5M and with Barrie's $2.75M that's $6.25M between them. Subtracting Kadri's $4.5M salary that leaves $1.75M. If Toronto had walked away from Ceci after arbitration, that would have been an extra $4.5M, making it the familiar total of $6.25M that they would have had to spend on a free agent defenceman. This also likely would have allowed Sandin to make the team (deservedly) out of training camp instead of being a victim to a cap crunch.

I know which way I think the Leaf's would have been better off but everyone's got their own opinions I guess...


You're mistaken about Ceci's arbitration. Ottawa agreed to the contract with Ceci before the trade. Although not officially signed due to the after July 1st, the deal was in place. So the deal was in effect Ceci for Zaitsev and the Leafs get cap free next free as Ceci is a UFA.
Where to make this stuff up about Sandin? There no proof that he truly was NHL ready and the Leafs don't need a LHD this season. Nonsense he was cap crunch victim. The Leafs could have kept Sandin and his 900,000 and sent Ceci to the Marlies and the Leafs would have received 1.075 cap relief for the demotion of Ceci. Minus Sandin's salary....having Sandin on the time would have saved the Leafs 175,00 in cap saving.
Ceci hasn't been the Leaf worse Dman with year. But let's compare him to Subban THIS year. Ceci 1 goal, 6 assists, and plus 5. Subban 2 goals, 3 assists minus 15.
In would world does any NHL team want to trade for the 2019 version of Subban?
Dec. 13, 2019 at 9:51 a.m.
#12
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 17
Likes: 1
With respect, I believe it is you who have misstated the Ceci situation. In fact, when the Leafs acquired his restricted free agent rights in the trade with Ottawa, the CBA rules would have forced at a minimum that the Leafs pay Ceci a 1 year, $4.3M contract. Ceci had arbitration rights, and it’s possible that the arbitrator might have given him an even bigger raise on his previous $4.3M contract, so Toronto signed him to a $4.5M deal. It should be stated that the alternate route to have taken, contractually, would be to have waited out Ceci and forced him to either accept the minimum offer of 1 year at $4.3M, or go to arbitration. The CBA states that during arbitration, if Ceci had been awarded more than $4.3M, the team could have simply walked away.

Of course there is no proof that Sandin would have made the team, because hypotheticals are unknowable. However, it is acknowledged by most that Sandin's play at camp had earned him a roster spot. With the complicated way Dubas and the Leaf's capologists structured the payroll (including trading for Clarkson's dead money) they needed to get as close to the salary cap limit as possible before the first puck drop, and they couldn't do that with Sandin's money (AND Ceci's money) on the books even with a mere 21 man roster.

I never stated Ceci was the Leaf's worst defenceman, and I have acknowledged that he's been very okay this year. When examining Subban's career it's obvious that this year is the outlier to his usual statistical performance, and while he may not be the player he once was, by no means is he washed up in my opinion. Contracts removed, there is not one GM in the league who would choose Ceci over Subban from an ability/potential standpoint.
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Submit Poll