Montreal rejects

Lankinen over Delia. We arent 1OA bad, Red wings have us there but Holtz, Raymond, Gunler maybe Byfield? Lots of other good forwards too. Top 5 pick we gucci

Theres an 81.5% chance that a team other than the redwings will be selecting first overall. Why cant that be us? With the way this season is going, its best to just tank.

Agreed tanking is the next step. Its possible to get laf which would be great but even if we dont there are other fantastic forwards we can get.

Can we all agree that Stan and JC need to be fired though?

I wouldn't fire Stan. He's made too many good moves this year. If you're saying Bickell's the reason he needs to go...that's 3 and a half seasons ago.

I'd be trading Lehenr for that TOR 1st and just hope for another shot at a lottery pick.

The only way that I would agree with that if it is obvious that the Blackhawks are trying to do what the bulls did and stay just good enough to be in the mix for a wild card for many years.

If an organization says they want to rebuild, all of the power to them, we will understand.

However, if incompetent management just wants to sell tickets, I will turn on this franchise until new ownership takes over.

So no, the problem is not JC and SB. I would trust those two in a rebuild... its the corporate bigwigs that want to nickel and dime the fans with an inferior product.

Okay, here’s my problem: bickell is ONE of the problems, not the biggest. The panarin trade still baffles me to this day and it is still worth noting that panarin was traded with two years left on his contract. That’s TWO years for bowman, supposedly a top GM in this league, to figure out how to fit him on another extension. But the joki nylander trade was the nail in the coffin. I’ve said this a million times, but there was ZERO logic attached to this trade. You trade a very promising defenseman for a winger that he went even close to a need. Sure a top six, but nylander isn’t a top six, he’s worthless. He may have made decent moves this offseason, but none of the players involved were players that were fits for this team, save for maybe de haan, and even then we got half of him with a badly injured shoulder. He’s had his chances guys.

Secondly, don’t kid yourself into thinking the upper management is the reason for this god awful product. Rocky wirtz adores this team and the fans. He always said that you have to spend money to make money. So it is definitely not on him or John McDonough.

Last, what exactly have SB and JC done to deserve the chance to do a rebuild?! JC uses the worst imaginable system possible to make the team worse and then he shows how miserable of a players’ coach he is by not adapting his system to his players. SB, on the other hand, just needs to go. I can’t stand watching him make moves and have them just get us no where fast. It’s old and stale. I never mind losing, but I want to believe there’s a guy out there I’d trust with a lottery pick that won’t waste it, or have millions in cap space and not waste that.

Well There's a lot that goes into this. Stan got Panarin FOR FREE. So no matter what point anyone brings up...Panarin falls under the WIN category for Bowman. You may not like the trade, but that's 99.9% hindsight. At the time MOST nhl fans thought he was being helped by Kane a lot. I mean half of his points came from Kane's passing. NOW we can look back to see the more complete player, but that's not easy. Saad's been a good player and it's not like Panarin was ever going to be a Hawk this year anyway.

The 2nd point you bring up is the single worst move Bowman's made in his career. Yes, Joki for Nylander was worse that Bickell and Tuevo. WHY? Because Teuvo also had weakness issues with the Hawks. He was getting called out by Shaw (and others) for being soft. We all saw his creativity when he has the puck, but I didn't see him getting to this level. Kudos to Trubo first and foremost, but back to the point. Joki's a stud. We all saw it last year. He's EXACTLY what they need right now too.

Name 1 single thing you can point to and say John McDonough was the guy that made it happen. Q? Bowman? Those are both losing arguments As a Cubs fan I know McDonough is a figure head and nothing more. He hasn't done anything bad because I honestly don't know what he does. I'd be fine firing him today. Rocky owns the team. He's staying and he's not the problem.

***EDIT*** My real problem with McDonough is...Stan and Q had friction. Friction is a GOOD THING if there's respect and it can be managed. The fact that it couldn't....That's 100% McDonough. AND ZERO% Q or Bowman. They are who they are. Management needs too....Manage.

The Blame was assigned to Q despite being one of the best coaches in the game. Don't make the same mistake by firing Bowman. Is he perfect...NO WAY, but he's a much better GM than most teams have.

JC i'm fine with getting rid of. I don't know who you bring in that makes me jump and down...Montgomery? I mean he was the guy that brought Ian Mitchell to Denver. BUT unless you're stealing a coach...who?

Bowman, What has he done? Take a look at this past offseason and find the top 5 trades in the offseason and the top 5 UFA signings in the offseason. I'd argue Bowman might be #1 on both. Lehner for $5M was HUGE and Carpenter for 3 years $1M is also really good. You and me both know that he's Carpy's been huge for this team. Trades..DeHaan for Forsling/Forsberg and Kubalik for a 5th rounder...

This team isn't good, but if he makes this TDL a productive SELL and shed's Smith and gets serious picks...I wouldn't fire him. If he lets Gus/Lehner/Crow walk for free. That's when I would fire him. WHY THEN? Because Stan's previous faults were believe in his guys too much. It's why Bickell got that contract and it's why Seabs got his contract. If he doesn't sell then he's proving he didn't learn anything and he believes in this team MORE than reality shows.

Okay, fair points all over the place. I’ll start by saying that I hate baseball. I hate Chicago baseball especially. Couldn’t care less about it, I stopped being a fan of the cubs back when they blamed Bartman for losing in 2003. ****ing disgraceful fans right there. Having said that, mcdonaugh’s job with this team is purely based on marketability and the financial growth of the team. I do get that the theory is that he should have stepped in when Q and SB had their problems, but SB was always gonna fire Q. There’s no way SB would have admitted to giving Q a **** team last year and taking the criticism, so of course SB fired him. That’s not on McDonough, cuz SB could blame who he wanted. Just like he’s gonna with JC.

As for Bowman in general, I’m just done in believing in him. That’s just me, he’s had so many chances to fix the problems, but he has created EVERY SINGLE ONE of them at the same time. Teuvo got criticized by Shaw? Sorry Shaw, but god knows all you can do is be a goon. At least Teuvo is an elite talent unlike you. Panarin was free? That’s not an excuse to trade him or even a defense for the trade. So no, it’s not a freakin win. Kane made panarin good?! WHAT!!!????!?!?!?!? I don’t care how much someone loves bowman, a bad trade is just that, a bad trade. Also, you can say he made great signings this summer, but you always have to balance hindsight with the present. Lehner was a great get, and for the life of me I have no ****ing clue why he signed with us, but even he can’t win games by himself. Carpenter is a work horse, and I love him, but he won’t be a cup winning difference maker.

Coaching wise, I’d say get a college coach who’s a solid players’ coach. Pure and simple. You can’t have a coach who doesn’t adapt to the team.

I get the blind loyalty to bowman. I really do. He has been at the helm of a dynasty. But Dale Tallon was the one who put the powerful core in place. Bowman only had to add around it when the cap killed us though (by Tallon’s infamous “fax machine” incident, granted). However, every problem we have now ideas is on bowman. Every contract (save for Keith), every high paid decline (looking at you seabs), and every single offseason that never seems to fix anything. Hey you got maatta and de haan?! Cool, the NHL isn’t fast anymore right? Hey you got nylander for..........joker? Uhhhh, what? This team just needs a fresh reset. Everyone is ready for it, I just don’t want Stan to be at the helm of it. I don’t wanna be scared that boqvist, or beaudin, or Mitchell might be traded tomorrow for no reason other than he thought he knew better than everyone else.