Forums/Armchair-GM

What is Kapanen worth non leafs fans

Created by: JTrades
Initial Creation Date: Dec 17, 2019
Published: Dec 17, 2019 at 11:23
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Team Explanation
Make your best offer for a defenceman
Trades
TOR
  1. Hammond, Andrew
  2. 2020 7th round pick (DAL)
BUF
  1. Kaskisuo, Kasimir
  2. Petan, Nicolas
Buyouts
  • Mikhail Grabovski: $0
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
  • Robin Lehner: $1,100,000 (22%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2020
TOR
CBJ
TOR
VGK
TOR
CAR
COL
EDM
SJS
STL
WPG
DAL
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$84,185,476$0$470,000-$2,685,476
Left WingCenterRight Wing
TOR
Hyman, Zach
$2,250,000
LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Tavares, John
$11,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 6
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
$10,893,000
RW
UFA - 6
TOR
Moore, Trevor
$775,000
RW, LW
RFA - 2
TOR
Matthews, Auston
$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
TOR
Nylander, William
$6,962,366
RW, LW
UFA - 5
TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
$925,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
TOR
Kerfoot, Alexander
$3,500,000
C, LW
UFA - 4
TOR
Engvall, Pierre
$925,000
LW, C
RFA - 1
TOR
Timashov, Dmytro
$694,444
LW
RFA - 1
TOR
Gauthier, Frédérik
$675,000
C
UFA - 1
TOR
Spezza, Jason
$700,000
C, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
TOR
Barrie, Tyson
$2,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Andersen, Frederik
$5,000,000
G
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Muzzin, Jake
$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
TOR
Holl, Justin
$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
BUF
Hammond, Andrew
$700,000
G
UFA - 1
TOR
Dermott, Travis
$863,333
LD
RFA - 1
TOR
Liljegren, Timothy
$863,333
RD
RFA - 3
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
TOR
Kapanen, Kasperi
$3,200,000
RW
RFA - 3
TOR
Johnsson, Andreas
$3,400,000
LW
UFA - 4
TOR
Horton, Nathan
$5,300,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Ceci, Cody
$4,500,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Clarkson, David
$5,250,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1

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Dec 17, 2019 at 11:28
#1
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,237
Likes: 479
2nd round pick and maybe a B prospect (4th line NHL'er)
Dec 17, 2019 at 11:31
#2
Wear your mask
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 8,061
Likes: 2,252
Kapanen to OTT for Anderson

This works because then Kappy is reunited with Ennis, Hainsey, Zaitsev etc.
Dec 17, 2019 at 11:37
#3
Hurricane Waddell
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,743
Likes: 823
Answering your question - Kapanen is worth a pick, a prospect and a roster player to help this year (D or G?). The level of pick, prospect and player depends.

As an example - I do think the Canes would do something like
TVR, A.Forsberg, and a 2nd for Kapanen. This helps you this year by getting a RHD who is solid, a Goalie who would be better then what you have as backup today, and a 2nd round pick. You could replace Forsberg with a B level prospect if you looked elsewhere for Goalie help.
mondo, JTrades and Sign_em_up000000 liked this.
Dec 17, 2019 at 11:44
#4
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 450
Likes: 126
Quoting: Propeller09
2nd round pick and maybe a B prospect (4th line NHL'er)


Andrew Shaw, a perennial 30something point player has a single season over 40pts at 27 years old and gets a 2nd and a 3rd
Colin Miller, the oft scratched RD with a single decent season under his belt at 27 years old gets a 2nd and a 5th
Justin Braun, an over 30 defensive defender, gets a 2nd and a 3rd
Marcus Johansson, a consistent 40pt player, gets a 2nd and a 4th as a rental with salary retained, at 28 years old
Gustav Nyquist, a consistent 40pt player, gets a 2nd and a 3rd as a rental (yes, he was enjoying a career year)
Brian Boyle, a 4th liner, keeps getting traded for 2nd round picks
And you think a 40pt 23year old, signed to a good contract for a couple of more years, is going to get a 2nd and "maybe" a B prospect?
.
The kid is worth more than all the players I listed above, he'd get a solid return.
Sign_em_up000000 liked this.
Dec 17, 2019 at 11:57
#5
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 53
Likes: 18
Quoting: I4evrblue
Andrew Shaw, a perennial 30something point player has a single season over 40pts at 27 years old and gets a 2nd and a 3rd
Colin Miller, the oft scratched RD with a single decent season under his belt at 27 years old gets a 2nd and a 5th
Justin Braun, an over 30 defensive defender, gets a 2nd and a 3rd
Marcus Johansson, a consistent 40pt player, gets a 2nd and a 4th as a rental with salary retained, at 28 years old
Gustav Nyquist, a consistent 40pt player, gets a 2nd and a 3rd as a rental (yes, he was enjoying a career year)
Brian Boyle, a 4th liner, keeps getting traded for 2nd round picks
And you think a 40pt 23year old, signed to a good contract for a couple of more years, is going to get a 2nd and "maybe" a B prospect?
.
The kid is worth more than all the players I listed above, he'd get a solid return.


agree, he was the main piece going the other way in the kessel trade in 2015...and his value has only gone up since then.
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Dec 17, 2019 at 12:01
#6
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 450
Likes: 126
Quoting: tom
agree, he was the main piece going the other way in the kessel trade in 2015...and his value has only gone up since then.


Exactly. He's a former 1st round pick that has done nothing but trend upwards but people just hate the Leafs and Leaf fans so they convince themselves the players are worthless. I'm not saying he'd get a big package of 1st rounders and prospects but he'd get more than a 2nd round pick and a B prospect, thats just silly talk smile
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Dec 17, 2019 at 12:04
#7
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,237
Likes: 479
Quoting: I4evrblue
Andrew Shaw, a perennial 30something point player has a single season over 40pts at 27 years old and gets a 2nd and a 3rd
Colin Miller, the oft scratched RD with a single decent season under his belt at 27 years old gets a 2nd and a 5th
Justin Braun, an over 30 defensive defender, gets a 2nd and a 3rd
Marcus Johansson, a consistent 40pt player, gets a 2nd and a 4th as a rental with salary retained, at 28 years old
Gustav Nyquist, a consistent 40pt player, gets a 2nd and a 3rd as a rental (yes, he was enjoying a career year)
Brian Boyle, a 4th liner, keeps getting traded for 2nd round picks
And you think a 40pt 23year old, signed to a good contract for a couple of more years, is going to get a 2nd and "maybe" a B prospect?
.
The kid is worth more than all the players I listed above, he'd get a solid return.


Yes, that is what he is worth. Sorry.

A couple things. Johansson had a 58pts season not too long ago and battled injuries since. He was also not 100% a rental. Bruins wanted him, he played well enough to get paid.

I think Nyquist is a perfect comparable. Yeah, he is older, but he has also only had one season with as low as Kapanens career high of 44pts.

Expiring contracts are attractive to a lot of teams. I have no idea why Boyle keeps getting the value he gets. I think Nashville fans would agree.

I am not going to compare dmen. Their value isn't a good comparison. Teams freak out and overpay for depth d

He is not really worth more. I think you could get a 2nd and a Gautheir type prospect.

You might be able to find a team that would deal a late 1st, but I doubt it.

I feel like all your examples were backing my opinion. Why do you think he is better than guys who have put up 60pts. In all cases, none of them played with nearly as much talent around them as Kapanen.
Dec 17, 2019 at 12:05
#8
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,237
Likes: 479
Quoting: tom
agree, he was the main piece going the other way in the kessel trade in 2015...and his value has only gone up since then.


No, it hasn't. It's way down. He had 1st line 30 goal potential at time of trade. Now, he is looking like a 3rd line PK'er who can fly but not finish.
Dec 17, 2019 at 12:10
#9
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 450
Likes: 126
Quoting: Propeller09
Yes, that is what he is worth. Sorry.

A couple things. Johansson had a 58pts season not too long ago and battled injuries since. He was also not 100% a rental. Bruins wanted him, he played well enough to get paid.

I think Nyquist is a perfect comparable. Yeah, he is older, but he has also only had one season with as low as Kapanens career high of 44pts.

Expiring contracts are attractive to a lot of teams. I have no idea why Boyle keeps getting the value he gets. I think Nashville fans would agree.

I am not going to compare dmen. Their value isn't a good comparison. Teams freak out and overpay for depth d

He is not really worth more. I think you could get a 2nd and a Gautheir type prospect.

You might be able to find a team that would deal a late 1st, but I doubt it.

I feel like all your examples were backing my opinion. Why do you think he is better than guys who have put up 60pts. In all cases, none of them played with nearly as much talent around them as Kapanen.


All of those players were older and teams value term if the contract is reasonable. To think a team wouldn't pay more for a guy thats locked into a good contract for a couple of years isn't accurate.
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Dec 17, 2019 at 12:11
#10
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 53
Likes: 18
Quoting: Propeller09
No, it hasn't. It's way down. He had 1st line 30 goal potential at time of trade. Now, he is looking like a 3rd line PK'er who can fly but not finish.


In his first and only full season, last year, he put up 20 goals and 44 points.
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Dec 17, 2019 at 12:15
#11
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,237
Likes: 479
Quoting: I4evrblue
All of those players were older and teams value term if the contract is reasonable. To think a team wouldn't pay more for a guy thats locked into a good contract for a couple of years isn't accurate.


disagree. Johansson and Nyqvist are decent comparables - maybe Dzingel. I don't care if they are little older. He hasn't produced as much as they have.

Quoting: tom
In his first and only full season, last year, he put up 20 goals and 44 points.


And... now he is on pace for 19 goals. He's a fine player, he just not the stud you think he is.
Dec 17, 2019 at 12:24
#12
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 450
Likes: 126
Quoting: Propeller09
disagree. Johansson and Nyqvist are decent comparables - maybe Dzingel. I don't care if they are little older. He hasn't produced as much as they have.



And... now he is on pace for 19 goals. He's a fine player, he just not the stud you think he is.


This proves my point that people here just hate the Leafs and their players because they're Leafs
The fact that GMs across the league pay more for players that are younger, have more upside, and are locked into longer contracts as long as those contracts are reasonable just doesn't matter. His comparables are older players that had a good season or two and were sold as rentals because thats the price you want to justify, not being its the price he's cost. You're not basing your opinion on anything other than "because I said so"
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Dec 17, 2019 at 12:34
#13
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,237
Likes: 479
Quoting: I4evrblue
This proves my point that people here just hate the Leafs and their players because they're Leafs
The fact that GMs across the league pay more for players that are younger, have more upside, and are locked into longer contracts as long as those contracts are reasonable just doesn't matter. His comparables are older players that had a good season or two and were sold as rentals because thats the price you want to justify, not being its the price he's cost. You're not basing your opinion on anything other than "because I said so"


Well in fairness. If you look at those players 1st couple years, they are better than Kapanen.

And it's literally you are doing the "because I said so". I gave you my reasoning.

Nyquist 1st two seasons in the league 28g & 27 G
Johansson 1st two - you might have a bit more of an argument, but he was 20 & 21 and put up a high of 47pts.
Dzingel - was a year older but 32pts and 41pts in his 1st two.

Who is his comparable to you?
Dec 17, 2019 at 12:44
#14
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 281
Likes: 31
Hamilton and frolik

For

Kap and ceci
Dec 17, 2019 at 1:18
#15
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,237
Likes: 479
Quoting: Flamedreamer
Hamilton and frolik

For

Kap and ceci


Dougie Hamilton?
Dec 17, 2019 at 1:19
#16
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,237
Likes: 479
Quoting: I4evrblue
All of those players were older and teams value term if the contract is reasonable. To think a team wouldn't pay more for a guy thats locked into a good contract for a couple of years isn't accurate.


How about Anthony Duclair? He went for (2) 2nds
Dec 17, 2019 at 1:43
#17
Hurricane Waddell
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,743
Likes: 823
Lol - I think he meant Hanifin Lindholm and Frolik for Ceci and Kapanen. Maybe not, who knows!

Quoting: Propeller09
Dougie Hamilton?
Dec 17, 2019 at 1:45
#18
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 450
Likes: 126
Quoting: Propeller09
Well in fairness. If you look at those players 1st couple years, they are better than Kapanen.

And it's literally you are doing the "because I said so". I gave you my reasoning.

Nyquist 1st two seasons in the league 28g & 27 G
Johansson 1st two - you might have a bit more of an argument, but he was 20 & 21 and put up a high of 47pts.
Dzingel - was a year older but 32pts and 41pts in his 1st two.

Who is his comparable to you?


What they produced is actually not as important because they weren't traded at 23 years old while still holding potential. GMs will pay for what they think a player can do.
As for a guy to compare him to I'm not sure about a perfect match but
Andre Burakovsky, at 23 years old, an RFA, and never having produced more than 38pts in a year, got a 2nd, 3rd and a prospect. He was also a former 1st round pick but the difference was he wasn't advancing his development in Washington so they took what they could get. Kapanen is doing just fine in Toronto, the Leafs don't need to move him, so I'd expect more than what he got considering he was traded just after a 25pt season
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Dec 17, 2019 at 2:35
#19
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,237
Likes: 479
Quoting: I4evrblue
What they produced is actually not as important because they weren't traded at 23 years old while still holding potential. GMs will pay for what they think a player can do.
As for a guy to compare him to I'm not sure about a perfect match but
Andre Burakovsky, at 23 years old, an RFA, and never having produced more than 38pts in a year, got a 2nd, 3rd and a prospect. He was also a former 1st round pick but the difference was he wasn't advancing his development in Washington so they took what they could get. Kapanen is doing just fine in Toronto, the Leafs don't need to move him, so I'd expect more than what he got considering he was traded just after a 25pt season


I do get what you are saying, and he might be worth a little more, but I am not sure it's as much as you think. Again. Burakovsky didn't go for that much more. Duclair is a decent comp too ( I think) and he went for (2) 2nds.

As I said, I think you might be able to get a late 1st, but it would be a serious contender(Col, Bos, Wash, TBL STL). Otherwise I think it's a lower ceiling NHL player and a 2nd. Lower level NHL player could be substituted for a 2nd-4th rd pick.

If he were being traded to Toronto now I would say a 2nd and Gauthier or Moore (maybe a 4th too) or Bracco and a 3rd. Something like that.

What am I missing? We seem to be in the same ballpark Scott Kosmachuk was the prospect in the Burakovsky deal. He currently playing in Germany with very little chance of playing in the NHL again (8 Career games)
Dec 17, 2019 at 3:01
#20
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 450
Likes: 126
Quoting: Propeller09
I do get what you are saying, and he might be worth a little more, but I am not sure it's as much as you think. Again. Burakovsky didn't go for that much more. Duclair is a decent comp too ( I think) and he went for (2) 2nds.

As I said, I think you might be able to get a late 1st, but it would be a serious contender(Col, Bos, Wash, TBL STL). Otherwise I think it's a lower ceiling NHL player and a 2nd. Lower level NHL player could be substituted for a 2nd-4th rd pick.

If he were being traded to Toronto now I would say a 2nd and Gauthier or Moore (maybe a 4th too) or Bracco and a 3rd. Something like that.

What am I missing? We seem to be in the same ballpark Scott Kosmachuk was the prospect in the Burakovsky deal. He currently playing in Germany with very little chance of playing in the NHL again (8 Career games)


We're not in the same ballpark because, as I said, they'd be selling high on Kapanen whereas they sold low on Burakovsky.
Also Duclair was sent to the Sens WITH two 2nds, not FOR two 2nds.
Dec 17, 2019 at 3:45
#21
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,237
Likes: 479
Quoting: I4evrblue
We're not in the same ballpark because, as I said, they'd be selling high on Kapanen whereas they sold low on Burakovsky.
Also Duclair was sent to the Sens WITH two 2nds, not FOR two 2nds.


I am not sure they would be selling high. He seems to have plateaued. He is on pace for less goals and points than last year. Not saying he won't get better, but selling high was the Kessel deal. This is "As-is"
Dec 17, 2019 at 7:05
#22
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 281
Likes: 31
Quoting: Propeller09
Dougie Hamilton?


Haha oops hamonic
Dec 18, 2019 at 9:07
#23
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 450
Likes: 126
Quoting: Propeller09
I am not sure they would be selling high. He seems to have plateaued. He is on pace for less goals and points than last year. Not saying he won't get better, but selling high was the Kessel deal. This is "As-is"


he's been put on his off wing too much this year, it hasn't been working and any GM will see that. It should also be expected that he'd plateau in the role he's in. 3rd line, PK, and 2nd PP minutes isn't about to help him produce more. On another team he has the potential to take his offensive game to another level. What he has done is clean up a lot of his game from years prior. He doesn't overhandle the puck as much anymore. He doesn't overskate the puck as much either. His defensive positioning is more sound and his PK abilities have improved. He's a solid player.
 
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