Forums/Armchair-GM

Niklas Hjalmarsson should win the Norris

Created by: Dan10900
Initial Creation Date: Dec 30, 2019
Published: Dec 30, 2019 at 11:36 pm
Team: 2019-20 Custom Team
Team Explanation
NO I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE STATEMENT... IT'S 100% JUST CLICKBATE... BUT HE DOES PLAY INTO MY ARGUMENT

Speaking of Hjalmarsson, he's been clearly the best defenceman at actually defending in the NHL over the past few years, he doesn't give up shots against, and when he does, they aren't high danger chances, he's just a black hold offensively, but why does he get zero credit for being spectacular defensively when a guy can get credit for being spectacular offensively and just as bad defensively as Hjalmarsson is offensively, same thing for forwards, people like ZAR and Simon get no credit for being great defensively, while guys like Kessel and Ovi get all the credit for being great offensively, you can't have it both ways, you can't only give credit to OFD's, and offensive forwards and no credit to DFD's and TWF's, like why give d men tons of credit for something they don't have to do (offense) and not give forwards credit for doing something they aren't expected to do (defense) and let d men's defensive performances slide bc they're good offensively, and not let forwards below average offense slide (it's not like they're awful offensively for the most part) in exchange for fantastic defense, or why not give d men credit for only doing what they're supposed to do vs giving credit to forwards for only doing what they have to do


Yes ik some forwards get credit for being great defensively, but you have to have years and years of that performance, and you still have to be great offensively to be considered great defensively bc that makes sense lmao
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
13$81,500,000$69,117,462$0$2,850,000$12,382,538
Left WingCenterRight Wing
MIN
Foligno, Marcus
$2,875,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
CAR
Staal, Jordan
$6,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 4
WSH
Ovechkin, Alex
$9,538,462
LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 2
PIT
Aston-Reese, Zach
$1,000,000
LW, RW
RFA - 2
CAR
Aho, Sebastian
$8,454,000
C, LW
UFA - 5
ARI
Kessel, Phil
$6,800,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 3
PIT
McCann, Jared
$1,250,000
LW, C
RFA - 1
PIT
Kahun, Dominik
$925,000
LW, RW, C
RFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
ARI
Hjalmarsson, Niklas
$5,000,000
RD
NMC
UFA - 2
WSH
Carlson, John
$8,000,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 7
CAR
Pesce, Brett
$4,025,000
RD
UFA - 5
NJD
Subban, P.K.
$9,000,000
RD
UFA - 3
NSH
Ellis, Ryan
$6,250,000
RD
UFA - 8

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Dec 30, 2019 at 11:50
#1
Sam
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,011
Likes: 1,606
He is quite fascinating
Dec 30, 2019 at 11:51
#2
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 27
Likes: 13
Because defence is harder to quantify. If a guy is in the right spot or stick is in the right lane or took the perfect angle it just looks like a nothing play in the game to the average fan because that's not what your usually looking for. often a defensive defenceman won't be mentioned by play by play unless a flashy play or big block is made. Also it's easier for most people to understand point totals over advanced stats like corsi and fenwick.
leaflet and Dan10900 liked this.
Dec 31, 2019 at 12:00
#3
DarthKane
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 298
Likes: 38
Hjalmarsson is a warrior and a class act. He’s the type of defenseman a team needs for a deep playoff run.
Dan10900 liked this.
Dec 31, 2019 at 12:01
#4
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 790
Likes: 186
Yes. This.

Average fans are so bad at appreciating good defensive play, and it's really, really annoying. So many players get undervalued because of that, because when a defenseman is effective, precisely "nothing" happens. People are biased toward offense and the sensational.

Only the goal-scoring Ds get noticed, or those that hit other players really hard over the boards on the other team's bench. Gee, even so-called advanced stats websites like daily faceoff are terrible at acknowledging great defensive players.

The good thing is, smart GMs can take advantage of that and make the most of players like Hjalmarsson to win games. And then, some teams like the Blues, Coyotes or Islanders start to win and people wonder why.
Dan10900 liked this.
Dec 31, 2019 at 12:11
#5
Sam
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,011
Likes: 1,606
Quoting: Blender90
Because defence is harder to quantify. If a guy is in the right spot or stick is in the right lane or took the perfect angle it just looks like a nothing play in the game to the average fan because that's not what your usually looking for. often a defensive defenceman won't be mentioned by play by play unless a flashy play or big block is made. Also it's easier for most people to understand point totals over advanced stats like corsi and fenwick.


Also because most of the players who “look good” defensively take far too little risks to actually get good results. Hjalmarson is fascinating to me because he’s one of the few players I’ve seen that legitimately only play defense and still get elite results. Most of the other guys in Hjalmarson’s tier like Parayko and Ellis are able to get results by defusing pressure and breaking pucks out while also playing great defense, but Hjalmarson gets his numbers purely by defending.
Dan10900 liked this.
Dec 31, 2019 at 12:18
#6
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 7,498
Likes: 3,439
I think it has to do with people incorrectly identifying what makes a good defensive player. It's easy to point at something like "player X blocks a lot of shots, he must be a good defensive player" without delving into the "why" of the situation. My favorite example of this was Tom Pyatt under Guy Boucher in Ottawa. Coach would praise him profusely for blocking shots, without understanding that the reason he blocked so many shots was because he was so bad at more important things like denying zone entries and breaking the puck out that his only option was to throw himself in front of every shot and pray.

Compare that with Mark Stone who was hardly given any credit for his defensive play by Guy Boucher, despite being the literal best player in the league in terms of takeaways and breaking up zone entries (ironically the things Guy Boucher's entire defensive system was built around).

It comes down to analytics vs the eye test. Everybody notices when a player blocks a huge bomb from the point - the crowd cheers and the players all tap their sticks - but people don't pay as much attention to a well timed stick check or a sneaky takeaway.
Dan10900 liked this.
Dec 31, 2019 at 12:22
#7
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 340
Likes: 96
When Erik Karlsson and Pk Subban were winning Norris trophies I often said they should add an award. Best offensive defenseman. While those 2 were great offensively, their D zone coverage leaves more than a little to be desired.

The one knock on Hjalmarsson in Chicago was the fact he played his off side. He'd be top 10 in the league in give away because he was always trying to clear the zone with a backhand.

His IKEA commercial in 2010 is still one of my favorite hockey commercials. For you out of towners, Google it.
Dan10900 liked this.
Dec 31, 2019 at 12:24
#8
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 7,498
Likes: 3,439
Quoting: leaflet
Yes. This.

Average fans are so bad at appreciating good defensive play, and it's really, really annoying. So many players get undervalued because of that, because when a defenseman is effective, precisely "nothing" happens. People are biased toward offense and the sensational.

Only the goal-scoring Ds get noticed, or those that hit other players really hard over the boards on the other team's bench. Gee, even so-called advanced stats websites like daily faceoff are terrible at acknowledging great defensive players.

The good thing is, smart GMs can take advantage of that and make the most of players like Hjalmarsson to win games. And then, some teams like the Blues, Coyotes or Islanders start to win and people wonder why.


Lmao I spent so long crafting a response only for you to say the same thing anyway. 100% agree.
Dec 31, 2019 at 12:55
#9
MisstheWhalers
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 8,559
Likes: 3,061
Hjallmorson is so effing good and one of the most underrated players in the game, as a guy who was nothing more then a defensive dman when he played I have a ton of respect for the guys who help keep the puck out of their own teams net and Hjallmorson will likely be one of the best dman for that of all time.

Those subtle takeaways, knowing to be in the right lane/position to take away space, shots or passing options is often overlooked but so very important to winning games. Hjallmorson is an amazing shot blocker as well, guys who block shots are often criticized with the argument "you're bad at possession which is why you have to block shots", while there may be an argument for that you're also NEVER gonna posses the puck 100% of the time and what can't be quantified is how many of those blocked shots saved a goal. It's just not easy to score your way out of bad defensive hockey and teams that win usually have a Hjallmorson or two in their lineup.
Dan10900 liked this.
Dec 31, 2019 at 1:03
#10
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,051
Likes: 526
If we had advanced Stats in 2013 Hammer wouldve won the Norris 3 years in a row dont @ me
Dan10900 liked this.
Dec 31, 2019 at 8:02
#11
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 31,673
Likes: 8,052
Yea, too many fans just look at offensive stats. Even this year some folks on this site where saying Barrie was worthy of a long term 8m per year contract, due to his past offensive stats. For long stretches this year Barrie's value next summer gets him a PTO at 800,000.
Dan10900 liked this.
 
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