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Toronto Maple Leafs signed Justin Holl (3 Years / $2,000,000 AAV)

Was this a good signing?
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Dec 31, 2019 at 12:30
#1
Justin Holl has signed a new contract with the Toronto Maple Leafs.
STANDARD CONTRACT (EXTENSION)
COMPARE THIS CONTRACT
LENGTH: 3 YEARS
EXPIRY STATUS: UFA
SIGNING TEAM: Toronto Maple LeafsToronto Maple Leafs
VALUE: $6,000,000
C.H.% : 2.45
SIGNING DATE: December 31, 2019
SOURCE: CapFriendly
SEASONCLAUSECAP HIT AAV P. BONUSES S. BONUSES BASE SALARY TOTAL SALARY MINORS SALARY
2020-21Modified NTC$2,000,000$2,000,000$0$1,000,000$1,000,000$2,000,000$2,000,000
2021-22Modified NTC$2,000,000$2,000,000$0$0$2,000,000$2,000,000$2,000,000
2022-23Modified NTC$2,000,000$2,000,000$0$0$2,000,000$2,000,000$2,000,000
TOTAL$6,000,000$6,000,000$0$1,000,000$5,000,000$6,000,000$6,000,000
CLAUSE DETAILS: Player submits a 10 team no trade list.
CLAUSE SOURCE: CapFriendly
Dec 31, 2019 at 12:33
#2
The evil stats guy
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,474
Likes: 1,910
Edited Dec 31, 2019 at 5:54
This is a fine contract, but the real winner here is the Leafs development system. They took an ECHL'er and turned him into their RHD shut down Dman. Huge win for them.
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Dec 31, 2019 at 12:33
#3
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 1,205
Edited Dec 31, 2019 at 12:43
Kaberle - McCabe
Dermott - Holl
Sandin - Liljegren

.....and another 52 years are passing by.....

Thx Muzzin for busting your ass out on every shift so the kids can look good......
Dec 31, 2019 at 12:57
#4
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,859
Likes: 1,303
Decent AAV for a 3rd pairing defensemen. Not sure why there are so many "No's" here.
Dec 31, 2019 at 1:00
#5
Nazaleaf
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 102
Likes: 96
I love this deal and I'm glad it was signed as early as it was. Holl deserves it and his emergence has been a greatly needed addition on the back end. Go get em Holl'er!
Jamiepo, Random2152, oneX and 1 other person liked this.
Dec 31, 2019 at 1:19
#6
get off my lawn...
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 11,486
Likes: 5,676
Quoting: HabsForEver
Decent AAV for a 3rd pairing defensemen. Not sure why there are so many "No's" here.


He’s top 4... playing against top lines in a shutdown role.
Random2152, MadLin27, Trickster and 2 others liked this.
Dec 31, 2019 at 1:22
#7
get off my lawn...
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 11,486
Likes: 5,676
Quoting: Laudan
Kaberle - McCabe
Dermott - Holl
Sandin - Liljegren

.....and another 52 years are passing by.....

Thx Muzzin for busting your ass out on every shift so the kids can look good......


Muzzin hasn’t been doing much to make Holl look good. Great without the puck this season but has not looked good with it.
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Dec 31, 2019 at 1:34
#8
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,859
Likes: 1,303
Quoting: Jamiepo
He’s top 4... playing against top lines in a shutdown role.


He's playing top 4, but he doesn't belong there. Just because the Leafs are weak at D, doesn't make him a top 4 defensemen.
Dec 31, 2019 at 1:38
#9
get off my lawn...
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 11,486
Likes: 5,676
Quoting: HabsForEver
He's playing top 4, but he doesn't belong there. Just because the Leafs are weak at D, doesn't make him a top 4 defensemen.


I get that. He certainly isn’t the typical top 4 guy as far as rating Dmen on this site. My point is that he has no issues playing in the top 4. Has shown a massive leap of improvement with some steady ice time.
HabsForEver, Random2152, Trickster and 2 others liked this.
Dec 31, 2019 at 1:40
#10
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,859
Likes: 1,303
Also included a 10 team no trade clause which I believe means he has to be protected in the expansion draft...
Dec 31, 2019 at 1:45
#11
get off my lawn...
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 11,486
Likes: 5,676
Quoting: HabsForEver
Also included a 10 team no trade clause which I believe means he has to be protected in the expansion draft...


Nope, only nmc contracts need to be protected.
Random2152, Trickster, rebecca and 2 others liked this.
Dec 31, 2019 at 1:53
#12
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 1,205
Edited Dec 31, 2019 at 1:59
Quoting: Jamiepo
Muzzin hasn’t been doing much to make Holl look good. Great without the puck this season but has not looked good with it.


Two years of only one playing proper D takes its toll proly, Pair him with someone that can play D too at start of the Season and he wont be on pace of 60 Games played with 35 passed only......

Or experiment number two, pair Holl with Rielly, lets see how he will earn his 2M per year.....

Debatable how Holl all at the sudden raised to "we have another Top Pair D", i dont think its Red Bull only.....
Capitalfail67 liked this.
Dec 31, 2019 at 2:14
#13
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 3,537
Likes: 1,155
Lol
Dec 31, 2019 at 2:15
#14
get off my lawn...
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 11,486
Likes: 5,676
Quoting: Laudan
Two years of only one playing proper D takes its toll proly, Pair him with someone that can play D too at start of the Season and he wont be on pace of 60 Games played with 35 passed only......

Or experiment number two, pair Holl with Rielly, lets see how he will earn his 2M per year.....

Debatable how Holl all at the sudden raised to "we have another Top Pair D", i dont think its Red Bull only.....


2m on a 3 year deal doesn’t scream top pair to me. Holl looked very capable without muzzin.

I still think leafs need to be on the hunt for a top pair rhd.
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Dec 31, 2019 at 2:15
#15
get off my lawn...
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 11,486
Likes: 5,676
Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
Lol

?
Dec 31, 2019 at 2:25
#16
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 3,537
Likes: 1,155
Quoting: Jamiepo
?


So I haven’t been watching the Leafs much this year, so I see “Justin Holl” and “$2,000,000” and I’m obviously very surprised. I didn’t know that Holl had recently become a full-time NHLer.
Dec 31, 2019 at 3:07
#17
McGruff
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 234
Likes: 49
It's the kinda signings that have to happen.
For next season, TO via CapF., now has 10 NHL guys signed and US$66.8M allocated - OUCH!
Only 13 more (cheap-cheap) skaters to go Doobie...
Capitalfail67 liked this.
Dec 31, 2019 at 3:10
#18
AwesomeMatthews
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 714
Likes: 547
If you think the Leafs had a cap crunch now its on steroids
Dec 31, 2019 at 4:01
#19
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 126
Likes: 96
Quoting: McGruff
It's the kinda signings that have to happen.
For next season, TO via CapF., now has 10 NHL guys signed and US$66.8M allocated - OUCH!
Only 13 more (cheap-cheap) skaters to go Doobie...


This is a little misleading on the capfriendly page.

The $66.8M figure includes guys who are signed buy currently on LTIR but the roster count doesn't.

Realistically, the Leafs have 11 skaters and their starter signed with $66.8M committed in cap hit, but that number is their entire top 9 forward group and they have 5 forwards who saw regular action and 1 D who are all RFAs who likely aren't getting massive pay days.

The Leafs cap situation next year is more flexible than it is this year, although it will still be tight, and probably won't leave a ton of room for a major addition unless it's by trade.
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Dec 31, 2019 at 4:04
#20
Extend Max Domi 4x6
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,418
Likes: 393
Quoting: HabsForEver
Decent AAV for a 3rd pairing defensemen. Not sure why there are so many "No's" here.


I think its beacause everyone who gave A no (including me) thinks it should'v ebeen liek 1.5 mil or less
Dec 31, 2019 at 4:05
#21
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,859
Likes: 1,303
Quoting: McGruff
It's the kinda signings that have to happen.
For next season, TO via CapF., now has 10 NHL guys signed and US$66.8M allocated - OUCH!
Only 13 more (cheap-cheap) skaters to go Doobie...


Signing a 3rd pairing defensemen for 2 Million is a signing that has to happen? They now have 14 million dollars for 4 other defenders and they have to resign Mikheyev
rollie1967 liked this.
Dec 31, 2019 at 4:06
#22
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,859
Likes: 1,303
Quoting: MaxDomi13
I think its beacause everyone who gave A no (including me) thinks it should'v ebeen liek 1.5 mil or less


After thinking about it, I realized why. On an average team, 2 Million for a 3rd pairing defender isn't bad. Toronto can't afford to giveaway cap like that though.
MaxDomi13 liked this.
Dec 31, 2019 at 4:19
#23
No regretzkys
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 233
Likes: 84
Quoting: HabsForEver
Signing a 3rd pairing defensemen for 2 Million is a signing that has to happen? They now have 14 million dollars for 4 other defenders and they have to resign Mikheyev


He could easily be a top 4 D man. He has been playing very good top 4 minutes this year. 2 of those 4 defenders you mentioned are likely going to be Sandin and Liljegren. Both ELC dollars. So its really 2 defencemen they need to sign. Mikheyev won't be very expensive with this injury. Would be suprised if he got more than 2.5 million.

This is a great signing. Worst case scenario he is a solid 3rd pairing D man. Best case scenario he continues playing as well as he has and legitimizes as a top 4 shutdown Dman.
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Dec 31, 2019 at 4:20
#24
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 126
Likes: 96
This is a good bet by the Leafs. It wouldn't be a hard contract to get out from under if need be, but realistically, he will likely outpeform the cost by a significant amount.

Holl has played like a legitmate 2nd pair shut down D this season. A lot is made of the Leafs having a weak D core, and while the group hasn't produced the results you would like to see as a whole this season, saying the group is weak is a bit simplistic.

The team has been a middle of the road defensive team since Keefe took over. They have been a juggernaut offensively, and Barrie and Rielly give up quite a bit defensively, but they easily make up for it at the other end. Barrie and Muzzin have actually looked like a top a pretty high end shut down duo since the coaching change, and if you consider that none of the Leafs forwards lines really constitues a shutdown line, I think their results have been pretty impressive.

The gamble hasn't been Holl's performance, it's the sample size and age. The bet here is that Holl is pretty much what we have seen this year, and if he is, or is even close, this is a slam dunk win. However, they are betting on a 27 year old former ECHL defensemen having essentially a good half season in the NHL. That's a small sample size. That's the risk in this, as they are giving him 3 years.

All in all, Keefe and Dubas feel vindicated as they saw his ability in the NHL and were extremely high on him, and were sure that he was an NHL player if given the shot. So now that he made good on his shot, they feel strongly enough that this deal is a big time win.

Personally, I like gambles like this, because they are easy to get away from. Moving a $2M D isn't hard, and given that you could pay a #6 D this kind of money and still not have it be wasted, they don't need to be 100% right for this deal to be OK. Realistically this is the type of bet Dubas needs to make since he placed so much of his payroll at the top of his line up. If he can't grab value on some deals like this from time to time, the large committment to his star forwards isn't workable.
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Dec 31, 2019 at 5:37
#25
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 29,536
Likes: 7,071
Edited Dec 31, 2019 at 5:52
Quoting: Random2152
This is a fine contract, but the real winner here is the Leafs development system. They took an ECHL'er and turned him into their RHD shut down Dman. Huge win for them.

Edit: Amazing the Leafs hate here. Looking at the voting it is clear that people vote based on team and not based on the actual contract. On any other team this is a universally praised signing, but on the Leafs, oh no he is trash.


Quoting: Random2152
This is a fine contract, but the real winner here is the Leafs development system. They took an ECHL'er and turned him into their RHD shut down Dman. Huge win for them.

Edit: Amazing the Leafs hate here. Looking at the voting it is clear that people vote based on team and not based on the actual contract. On any other team this is a universally praised signing, but on the Leafs, oh no he is trash.



I've been reading some of the ArmChair. The Leaf haters think because he isn't "a number 1", it's a foolish contract. Guess folks don't know that six Dmen are played every night.
Trickster and oneX liked this.
 
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