Forums/Armchair-GM

I think Chicago is too close to make this work but I want it

Initial Creation Date: Jan 3, 2020
Published: Jan 3 at 11:02 am
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Trades
TOR
  1. Murphy, Connor ($450,000 retained)
CHI
  1. Johnsson, Andreas
TOR
  1. 2021 3rd round pick (ANA)
ANA
  1. Ceci, Cody
Buyouts
  • Mikhail Grabovski: $0
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2020
TOR
CBJ
TOR
VGK
TOR
CAR
COL
EDM
SJS
STL
WPG
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
ANA
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$79,048,810$0$335,000$2,451,190
Left WingCenterRight Wing
TOR
Hyman, Zach
$2,250,000
LW
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Matthews, Auston
$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
$10,893,000
RW
UFA - 6
TOR
Kerfoot, Alexander
$3,500,000
C, LW
UFA - 4
TOR
Tavares, John
$11,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 6
TOR
Nylander, William
$6,962,366
RW, C
UFA - 5
TOR
Engvall, Pierre
$925,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
TOR
Spezza, Jason
$700,000
C, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Kapanen, Kasperi
$3,200,000
RW
RFA - 3
TOR
Brooks, Adam
$759,167
C
RFA - 1
TOR
Gauthier, Frédérik
$675,000
C
RFA - 1
TOR
Moore, Trevor
$775,000
RW, LW
RFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
TOR
Barrie, Tyson
$2,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Andersen, Frederik
$5,000,000
G
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Muzzin, Jake
$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
CHI
Murphy, Connor
$3,400,000
RD
UFA - 3
TOR
Hutchinson, Michael
$700,000
G
UFA - 1
TOR
Dermott, Travis
$863,333
LD
RFA - 1
TOR
Holl, Justin
$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
TOR
Marincin, Martin
$700,000
LD
UFA - 1
TOR
Horton, Nathan
$5,300,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Timashov, Dmytro
$694,444
LW
RFA - 1
TOR
Clarkson, David
$5,250,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Kivihalme, Teemu
$792,500
LD
RFA - 1
TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
$925,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1

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Jan 3 at 11:05
#1
get off my lawn...
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 12,209
Likes: 6,175
I think at that point I would move ceci for a cheaper number 7. Although I wouldn’t mind keeping ceci for injury insurance I’m not sure how he would play without regular starts. Not very fair to him in a contract year either.
Jan 3 at 11:08
#2
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,719
Likes: 3,916
Quoting: Jamiepo
I think at that point I would move ceci for a cheaper number 7. Although I wouldn’t mind keeping ceci for injury insurance I’m not sure how he would play without regular starts. Not very fair to him in a contract year either.


Sure, I'd move him anywhere that would take him really.
Jan 3 at 11:10
#3
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,719
Likes: 3,916
Quoting: Jamiepo
I think at that point I would move ceci for a cheaper number 7. Although I wouldn’t mind keeping ceci for injury insurance I’m not sure how he would play without regular starts. Not very fair to him in a contract year either.


There you go.
Jamiepo liked this.
Jan 3 at 11:14
#4
get off my lawn...
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 12,209
Likes: 6,175
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
There you go.


My idea... haven’t checked the cap... but maybe to Nashville for Santini. Not sure how long Ellis is out for. Santini is more of a cap burden to Nashville. If we were to retain on ceci we may even get a pick back. Or you move ceci as you have done for a pick. Toronto can retain to get something worth while and get santini for future considerations or maybe dump a contract back.
Jan 3 at 11:17
#5
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 30,099
Likes: 7,348
Ceci has been as steady as Barrie this year, but for some reason, Ceci has been the worse Dman on the since July according to so many.
Hawks need RHD Murphy with term. than winger like Johnsson.
leaflet liked this.
Jan 3 at 11:39
#6
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,719
Likes: 3,916
Quoting: palhal
Ceci has been as steady as Barrie this year, but for some reason, Ceci has been the worse Dman on the since July according to so many.
Hawks need RHD Murphy with term. than winger like Johnsson.


Not if they rebuild. But I don't know if they will commit to that. Also no Ceci has not been better than Barrie. Barrie struggled under Babs and has come to life doing what he does best under Keefe. Ceci on the other hand, just isn't good. He routinely is out of position and I am convinced those in his corner only see him throw hits and like that. He's the weak link. Barrie provides offense to counter his defensive deficiencies, Ceci offers nothing.
Jan 3 at 12:01
#7
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 7,471
Likes: 1,793
Leafs aren’t getting Murphy for Johnsson never mind retention on Murphy lol
Jan 3 at 12:02
#8
#NylanderTruther
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,371
Likes: 1,183
We need more Murphy’s not less. Unless you give us an offer that blows us away he is not moving.
ChiHawk liked this.
Jan 3 at 12:16
#9
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,719
Likes: 3,916
Quoting: ChiHawk
Leafs aren’t getting Murphy for Johnsson never mind retention on Murphy lol


I am sure you are right. Not that Murphy is worth a tonne more but that Chicago won't move him unless its a big over pay. They are to close to actually making the playoffs.
Jan 3 at 12:19
#10
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,719
Likes: 3,916
Quoting: Stan_Bowman
We need more Murphy’s not less. Unless you give us an offer that blows us away he is not moving.


I agree, although I think that Dubas is a man who won't overpay so TO won't be getting him. If Chicago completely falls off the pace, things could change. Especially if Bowman decides that a rebuild is necessary (which he should) but at the same time the West is pretty wide open still, Chicago could make it into the playoffs and still do some damage depending on their matchup.
Jan 3 at 12:27
#11
#NylanderTruther
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,371
Likes: 1,183
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
I agree, although I think that Dubas is a man who won't overpay so TO won't be getting him. If Chicago completely falls off the pace, things could change. Especially if Bowman decides that a rebuild is necessary (which he should) but at the same time the West is pretty wide open still, Chicago could make it into the playoffs and still do some damage depending on their matchup.


Even if we’re far out of it at the TDL Murphy is signed reasonably for the next two years. There’s no chance that we trade him unless we get an outstanding offer.
ChiHawk liked this.
Jan 3 at 12:33
#12
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,719
Likes: 3,916
Quoting: Stan_Bowman
Even if we’re far out of it at the TDL Murphy is signed reasonably for the next two years. There’s no chance that we trade him unless we get an outstanding offer.


That is the hope for all fans, you like a guy and you want to keep him and hope that he can get a huge return for you. The reality is, you'll get what the player is worth if you make him available, maybe a little more if there is a bidding war. The way I look at things though very soon there won't be many teams in the hunt. In the East I think we pretty much have the playoff standing set. Florida could catch Philly but after that, I don't see anyone making up the necessary ground to make it. In the west its kind of a free for all, there are still several teams that can make it although if Chicago wanted to sell off some assets, I am not sure they would want to send them to rivals in the west which limits their buyers quite a bit.

We'll see what happens. Just don't expect to get a top 6 forward, and a bunch of other stuff for a 2nd pair stay at home defender.
Jan 3 at 12:42
#13
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 7,471
Likes: 1,793
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
I am sure you are right. Not that Murphy is worth a tonne more but that Chicago won't move him unless its a big over pay. They are to close to actually making the playoffs.


Murphy, a top 2 on either the Hawks or Leafs, is worth more then an injured Johnsson or a 20 goal scorer who doesn't drive a line but is a supporting cast member on a line with damn good players.
Jan 3 at 12:48
#14
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 7,471
Likes: 1,793
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
That is the hope for all fans, you like a guy and you want to keep him and hope that he can get a huge return for you. The reality is, you'll get what the player is worth if you make him available, maybe a little more if there is a bidding war. The way I look at things though very soon there won't be many teams in the hunt. In the East I think we pretty much have the playoff standing set. Florida could catch Philly but after that, I don't see anyone making up the necessary ground to make it. In the west its kind of a free for all, there are still several teams that can make it although if Chicago wanted to sell off some assets, I am not sure they would want to send them to rivals in the west which limits their buyers quite a bit.

We'll see what happens. Just don't expect to get a top 6 forward, and a bunch of other stuff for a 2nd pair stay at home defender.


Murphy is more then a stay at home defender. Although known to be really solid in his own zone, he's also not affraid to join the rush; 4 goals and 11 points in 30 games
Jan 3 at 12:58
#15
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,719
Likes: 3,916
Quoting: ChiHawk
Murphy, a top 2 on either the Hawks or Leafs, is worth more then an injured Johnsson or a 20 goal scorer who doesn't drive a line but is a supporting cast member on a line with damn good players.


Being on the top pair does not make a player a top 2 defender. Murphy isn't as good as Rielly, Barrie or Muzzin. Yes he's a better defender than Barrie but Barrie is terrific transitionally and offensively. He's been very resurgent under Keefe. I think Murphy would actually start on the bottom pair with Dermott to get acclimatized with TO's system and then go from there. He may displace Holl to the 3rd pair or possibly move Barrie further down at 5v5. But he's not at all a top 2 defender.
Jan 3 at 12:58
#16
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,719
Likes: 3,916
Quoting: ChiHawk
Murphy is more then a stay at home defender. Although known to be really solid in his own zone, he's also not affraid to join the rush; 4 goals and 11 points in 30 games


Stunning numbers.
Jan 3 at 1:09
#17
#NylanderTruther
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,371
Likes: 1,183
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
That is the hope for all fans, you like a guy and you want to keep him and hope that he can get a huge return for you. The reality is, you'll get what the player is worth if you make him available, maybe a little more if there is a bidding war. The way I look at things though very soon there won't be many teams in the hunt. In the East I think we pretty much have the playoff standing set. Florida could catch Philly but after that, I don't see anyone making up the necessary ground to make it. In the west its kind of a free for all, there are still several teams that can make it although if Chicago wanted to sell off some assets, I am not sure they would want to send them to rivals in the west which limits their buyers quite a bit.

We'll see what happens. Just don't expect to get a top 6 forward, and a bunch of other stuff for a 2nd pair stay at home defender.


It’s not about what we hope we’re going to get for Murphy, because we don’t want to trade him. I doubt the real Bowman feels differently. You can’t justify a lacking trade with “well you guys think you’ll get more than you’ll get” when he’s not on the trade block.
Jan 3 at 1:11
#18
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 7,471
Likes: 1,793
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Being on the top pair does not make a player a top 2 defender. Murphy isn't as good as Rielly, Barrie or Muzzin. Yes he's a better defender than Barrie but Barrie is terrific transitionally and offensively. He's been very resurgent under Keefe. I think Murphy would actually start on the bottom pair with Dermott to get acclimatized with TO's system and then go from there. He may displace Holl to the 3rd pair or possibly move Barrie further down at 5v5. But he's not at all a top 2 defender.


He's a top pair on the Leafs, look at advanced stats and it's no comparison.
Jan 3 at 1:12
#19
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,719
Likes: 3,916
Quoting: Stan_Bowman
It’s not about what we hope we’re going to get for Murphy, because we don’t want to trade him. I doubt the real Bowman feels differently. You can’t justify a lacking trade with “well you guys think you’ll get more than you’ll get” when he’s not on the trade block.


I don't disagree. My point is more that I just don't see the point in scraping by hoping that somehow you can get one more kick at the can before Kane and Toews start declining. The Hawks aren't good enough and their best players are all over 30, apart from Debrincat, you have some nice pieces to build around but not much star power beyond the aforementioned players. So in my mind, why bother waiting? Just pull the plug and rebuild and if you are doing that, whats the point in keeping Murphy? He certaintly is a good player but far from a game changer and really not a piece to build around. May as well get a young forward that can help support a new group of stars you can get through the next few drafts.
Jan 3 at 1:13
#20
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 7,471
Likes: 1,793
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Stunning numbers.


Clearly not a stay at home defender. That's 11 goals and 30 points in a 82 game season, stay at home defenders don't put up that many points or goals in a season. He's not a offensive powerhouse and nobody is claiming that but he transitions the zones and has speed unlike most stay at home defenders.
Jan 3 at 1:14
#21
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,719
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Quoting: ChiHawk
He's a top pair on the Leafs, look at advanced stats and it's no comparison.


Barrie and Rielly are working great together, Muzzin and Holl have been a good shutdown pair. Yes Murphy gives them options to move stuff around if it isn't working but he's really much of an upgrade over anyone in the current top 4. He's much better than Ceci but that's the only thing that can be said for certain.
Jan 3 at 1:15
#22
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 7,471
Likes: 1,793
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
I don't disagree. My point is more that I just don't see the point in scraping by hoping that somehow you can get one more kick at the can before Kane and Toews start declining. The Hawks aren't good enough and their best players are all over 30, apart from Debrincat, you have some nice pieces to build around but not much star power beyond the aforementioned players. So in my mind, why bother waiting? Just pull the plug and rebuild and if you are doing that, whats the point in keeping Murphy? He certaintly is a good player but far from a game changer and really not a piece to build around. May as well get a young forward that can help support a new group of stars you can get through the next few drafts.


Sorry but Johnsson hardly moves the needle. We have Kubalik who is a rookie playing as well if not better then Johnsson. The Hawks problems aren't middle 6 supporting cast wingers, they have those.
Jan 3 at 1:20
#23
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,719
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Clearly not a stay at home defender. That's 11 goals and 30 points in a 82 game season, stay at home defenders don't put up that many points or goals in a season. He's not a offensive powerhouse and nobody is claiming that but he transitions the zones and has speed unlike most stay at home defenders.


His career high in points is under 20, lets just be serious here. He's not at all an offensive player. He's a defensive defenceman. A good one and he has value but lets be serious, he's probably best suited as a #4 guy.
Jan 3 at 1:22
#24
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,719
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Sorry but Johnsson hardly moves the needle. We have Kubalik who is a rookie playing as well if not better then Johnsson. The Hawks problems aren't middle 6 supporting cast wingers, they have those.


Sure. Their problem is they have an aging core that is either declining (Crawford, Keith, Seabrook) or is on the wrong side of 30 and will start showing their age sooner rather than later (Kane and Toews). They aren't good enough to win, and should start considering a rebuild. And if they are, why keep anything that isn't under 25 and has a lot of upside?

Eitherway I am finished with this conversation. You guys want the moon for everything you have. I imagine you still think there is some credibility to your thoughts that Saad is worth Nylander. As I said before, that wasn't going to age well. It clearly didn't.
Jan 3 at 1:23
#25
#NylanderTruther
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,371
Likes: 1,183
Quoting: ChiHawk
Sorry but Johnsson hardly moves the needle. We have Kubalik who is a rookie playing as well if not better then Johnsson. The Hawks problems aren't middle 6 supporting cast wingers, they have those.


Off topic I don’t think that’s exactly true. Watching hawks games boils down to either Kane or Lehner stealing wins for us. Our bottom 6 has very little scoring ability, and Toews can’t do what Kane does with younger players.
 
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