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Forums/Armchair-GM

Murphy plus for Johnsson plus

Created by: Trickster
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Jan. 3, 2020
Published: Jan. 4, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Looking for input on trades.

Not sure how high Blackhawks are on Nylander still, to me he is throw in as I dont value him very high, bottom 6 FW.
Maybe swap for Caggiula instead??


If I'm off basis, would appreciate feedback that is constructive.
Trades
1.
TOR
CHI
  1. Greenway, James [Reserve List]
  2. Johnsson, Andreas
  3. 2020 4th round pick (VGK)
2.
TOR
  1. 2020 5th round pick (WPG)
3.
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
Logo of the TOR
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Logo of the CAR
Logo of the COL
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the STL
Logo of the WPG
2021
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
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Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2022
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$79,677,699$0$1,380,000$1,822,301
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,634,000$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$10,893,000$10,893,000
RW
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, C, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
C, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,200,000$3,200,000
RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$759,167$759,167 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RW, LW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$675,000$675,000
C
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$3,000,000$3,000,000
RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$863,333$863,333
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$675,000$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$792,500$792,500 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,750,000$2,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the New York Rangers
$792,500$792,500 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
G
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,000,000$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$767,500$767,500 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$775,000$775,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,250,000$5,250,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,300,000$5,300,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1

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Jan. 4, 2020 at 3:39 p.m.
#26
Kyle from Chicago
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
Are you still open to a deal based around Kapanen for Murphy?


I would prefer to not trade Murphy, but yes depending on what else is included.
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Jan. 4, 2020 at 3:40 p.m.
#27
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Quoting: Stan_Bowman
I would prefer to not trade Murphy, but yes depending on what else is included.


What do you think a hypothetical deal would look like?
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Jan. 4, 2020 at 3:49 p.m.
#28
MisstheWhalers
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
Wow, that seems a little harsh.


Not at all, it's pretty accurate.

See it all the time on here, it's either greed or fans seriously overvalue the junk they send along in trades, probably a bit of both really.

Would you trade a former 1st round pick for Greenway and a 4th? No you wouldn't.
Jan. 4, 2020 at 3:56 p.m.
#29
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Real solid trade frameworks here Trickster, well done. Comments have been fun, very Canadian of you to apologize so sincerely when you mixed up the Nylander brothers there!
At the same time, you are undervaluing Murphy and retained salary pretty badly. Remember that he is a top 4 RHD, currently playing more than 21 minutes a night. And for some reason the Hawks are gonna give two NHL players for one in this deal?

Quoting: DaBus
Hawks would never do that especially with retained salary. A basis would be Murphy + Nylander for Kapanen, Ceci, 2021 1st. There is a premium on RHD, Murphy is playing well and has a good contract.


Da Bus I would prefer to lose Kapanen instead of Johnsson, and Ceci would need to be dispatched if bringing in Murphy, so your deal seems pretty close. If the Hawks were to retain 850-1M, I'd say the 2021 1st would be
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Jan. 4, 2020 at 4:00 p.m.
#30
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Quoting: MisstheWhalers
Not at all, it's pretty accurate.

See it all the time on here, it's either greed or fans seriously overvalue the junk they send along in trades, probably a bit of both really.

Would you trade a former 1st round pick for Greenway and a 4th? No you wouldn't.


It doesn't matter where a player is drafted and by all accounts, it's looking more and more like Nylander will be a bust based on where he was drafted. Don't act like he's lighting the world on fire or anything the only reason he won't be traded is because Bowman won't admit his mistake this soon. I was under the impression you had alot more respect for Trickster than what you showed and you really should. Perhaps it is a bot of both but I can say for a fact that that's not the case with trickster. These are supposed to be for fun and to start a healthy discussion yet far too often it turns into slander as you have shown here.
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Jan. 4, 2020 at 4:01 p.m.
#31
MisstheWhalers
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I think fans on both side of this debate are undervaluing both Kapanen and Murphy, swapping them for each other is fair for both teams, who needs to add and what the add(s) is is the question.

I think the value that Kapanen's RFA after this deal ends makes him the more valuable piece but not by much, perhaps a pick swap would be best, like Kapanen and a 6th for Murphy and a 3rd maybe?

Idk, maybe I'm way the f@ck off in my thinking.. Lol
Jan. 4, 2020 at 4:07 p.m.
#32
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hey look a squirrel
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Quoting: MisstheWhalers
Typical capfriendly greed, A.Nylander is somehow considered a throw in now when really the poster just wants him to replace Johnsson who he's trading for a retained Murphy, just flat out greed.

And then wants Andersson thrown in too cause ya know just throw in the disgruntled former 1st round pick and I'll send you a bunch of stuff, just more greed.


I would admit that I do not know what A.Nylanvder value is but Lias Andersson I do.

Rangers got out right shutdown by teams when try to explore trading him

Yes he was high draft pick but he is has had negative attitude for a while, not isolated incident.
Yes he is throw in the Rangers trade.
Jan. 4, 2020 at 4:08 p.m.
#33
MisstheWhalers
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
It doesn't matter where a player is drafted and by all accounts, it's looking more and more like Nylander will be a bust based on where he was drafted. Don't act like he's lighting the world on fire or anything the only reason he won't be traded is because Bowman won't admit his mistake this soon. I was under the impression you had alot more respect for Trickster than what you showed and you really should. Perhaps it is a bot of both but I can say for a fact that that's not the case with trickster. These are supposed to be for fun and to start a healthy discussion yet far too often it turns into slander as you have shown here.


Yes cause I'm slandering Trickster.. Lol
No I'm just speaking bluntly, extras are just considered throw ins by many when they're not.
Yeah no doubt that was a dumb move by Bowman but does that mean he should just throw away a young player for stuff?? He'd just be making a bad trade way worse.
I see it all the time on here, the foundation of a good trade and then the extras added are just too much or too valuable and 90% of the time it's going to the fan of said team making the trade to fill that teams need.
I see it as greed but you can call it whatever you want.
Jan. 4, 2020 at 4:09 p.m.
#34
Kyle from Chicago
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Edited Jan. 4, 2020 at 4:29 p.m.
Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
What do you think a hypothetical deal would look like?


I want to preface this with saying I think Kap for Murphy would be fair value 1-1 IF the Blackhawks were looking to move on from Murphy (they aren’t). I think you could possibly throw in another forward prospect or a pick that upgrades based on Toronto’s success. I could do a post about it later, we will see.
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Jan. 4, 2020 at 4:09 p.m.
#35
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hey look a squirrel
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Quoting: Stan_Bowman
Most hawks fans hate him because of who he was traded for... but he is a 21 year old with a lot of upside. I wouldn’t add A.Nylander as a supporting piece in any trade whatsoever. Off the table as far as I’m concerned.


How about swap him for Caggiula.
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Jan. 4, 2020 at 4:11 p.m.
#36
Kyle from Chicago
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Quoting: Trickster
How about swap him for Caggiula.


We don’t want to trade Murphy, nor do we want to retain on him. Johnsson is an okay forward, but we would prefer Kap+ for Murphy alone.
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Jan. 4, 2020 at 4:14 p.m.
#37
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hey look a squirrel
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Quoting: MisstheWhalers
Yes cause I'm slandering Trickster.. Lol
No I'm just speaking bluntly, extras are just considered throw ins by many when they're not.
Yeah no doubt that was a dumb move by Bowman but does that mean he should just throw away a young player for stuff?? He'd just be making a bad trade way worse.
I see it all the time on here, the foundation of a good trade and then the extras added are just too much or too valuable and 90% of the time it's going to the fan of said team making the trade to fill that teams need.
I see it as greed but you can call it whatever you want.


Thoughts on swapping A.Nylander for Caggiula??
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Jan. 4, 2020 at 4:15 p.m.
#38
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Edited Jan. 4, 2020 at 4:21 p.m.
Quoting: MisstheWhalers
Typical capfriendly greed, A.Nylander is somehow considered a throw in now when really the poster just wants him to replace Johnsson who he's trading for a retained Murphy, just flat out greed.

And then wants Andersson thrown in too cause ya know just throw in the disgruntled former 1st round pick and I'll send you a bunch of stuff, just more greed.


Yeah that's something like what I was thinking, maybe not greed, but irrelevant additions to those trades. The Leafs just don't need Nylander or Andersson to add to their crazy depth, once other guys get healthy. They have both been unfortunate busts so far in their young careers also, not performing close to as well as Engvall this year even. TML has got skilled wingers to spare, doing fine right now with Mikheyev, Johnsson, and Moore all out.
Quoting: DaBus
Hawks would never do that especially with retained salary. A basis would be Murphy + Nylander for Kapanen, Ceci, 2021 1st. There is a premium on RHD, Murphy is playing well and has a good contract.


I would jump on this deal if the Hawks retained the 850, but it seems they are squeezed against the cap with Debrincat getting paid starting next year. How about a 2020 6th and 2021 2nd? That might be fair.
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Jan. 4, 2020 at 4:20 p.m.
#39
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hey look a squirrel
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1 for 1 seems a light to me but you add from one side, have to add from the other. Gets complicated.


Perhaps just bite the bullet and do it 1 for 1 in the end.
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Jan. 4, 2020 at 4:20 p.m.
#40
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Quoting: MisstheWhalers
I think fans on both side of this debate are undervaluing both Kapanen and Murphy, swapping them for each other is fair for both teams, who needs to add and what the add(s) is is the question.

I think the value that Kapanen's RFA after this deal ends makes him the more valuable piece but not by much, perhaps a pick swap would be best, like Kapanen and a 6th for Murphy and a 3rd maybe?

Idk, maybe I'm way the f@ck off in my thinking.. Lol


I do think people on here put too much emphasis on where a player is drafted (order wise) and on the opposite end of this discussion a guy like Kapanen who was a regressing player in Pittsburgh turns it around in Toronto and is definitely a top 6 player.

@Sign_em_up000000 makes a good point about a GM not wanting to admit his mistake in trading for A. Nylander because Joker is looking better everyday.

I don't know how much of the Kapanen/Johnsson discussions as top 6 forwards is just Leafs hate seeping in vs a true evaluation of these guys being top 6 players in an NHL lineup.
Jan. 4, 2020 at 4:26 p.m.
#41
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hey look a squirrel
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Quoting: MisstheWhalers
Not at all, it's pretty accurate.

See it all the time on here, it's either greed or fans seriously overvalue the junk they send along in trades, probably a bit of both really.

Would you trade a former 1st round pick for Greenway and a 4th? No you wouldn't.


Andersson is kind been black listed, look into it if you believe me.

You also have the value wrong too, it's more like Rasanen+ for Andersson.



I admitted to being wrong A.Nylander's value already.
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Jan. 4, 2020 at 4:27 p.m.
#42
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Quoting: MisstheWhalers
Yes cause I'm slandering Trickster.. Lol
No I'm just speaking bluntly, extras are just considered throw ins by many when they're not.
Yeah no doubt that was a dumb move by Bowman but does that mean he should just throw away a young player for stuff?? He'd just be making a bad trade way worse.
I see it all the time on here, the foundation of a good trade and then the extras added are just too much or too valuable and 90% of the time it's going to the fan of said team making the trade to fill that teams need.
I see it as greed but you can call it whatever you want.


Perhaps slander was a little harsh in this instance but I was trying to make a point and I think you understood that. "Throw away a young player for stuff" last time I checked Greenway is a young player too and they would get another one with that pick. Also, how can you determine that trading him away would make that trade look worse without knowing what the actual return would be? I get your point and I think you get mine (or at least I hope you do). Yes far too often people overvalue players on here but if you were a leafs fan you'd understand the constant crap we have to deal with on here is. Last year we couldn't give Nylander away and every player on the leafs besides AM and JT are a buy product of those two case in point Johnsson, it gets very annoying. The point is just because someone does an ACGM doesn't mean the ACTUAL GMs are making this trade so why do you care so much if the value is accurate in your opinion and on that note what makes you think your opinion is superior to others on here? Like I said the whole point of this site is to have fun and start a healthy discussion yet we rarely see that on here (maybe we should all try to be better).
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Jan. 4, 2020 at 4:29 p.m.
#43
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Quoting: Stan_Bowman
I want to preface this with saying I think Kap for Murphy would be fair value 1-1 IF the Blackhawks were looking to move on from Murphy (they aren’t). I think you could possibly throw in another forward prospect or a pick that upgrades based on Toronto’s success. I could do a post about it later, we will see.

And a pick based on performance


Sounds fair to me. What about Kapanen, Bracco or a pick and Ceci 50% retained for Murphy? Would you rather have Bracco or a conditional 3rd let's say based on playoff success?
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Jan. 4, 2020 at 5:39 p.m.
#44
Gio's Leafs
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Y'all gotta stop thinking teams will do us a favour and take Ceci's 4.5M AND give up pick...
Jan. 4, 2020 at 7:53 p.m.
#45
Kyle from Chicago
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
Sounds fair to me. What about Kapanen, Bracco or a pick and Ceci 50% retained for Murphy? Would you rather have Bracco or a conditional 3rd let's say based on playoff success?


If we go the pick route & are taking Ceci…then start it at a third and upgrade it to a second if they win X rounds (1 or 2)
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Jan. 4, 2020 at 7:55 p.m.
#46
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Quoting: Stan_Bowman
If we go the pick route & are taking Ceci…then start it at a third and upgrade it to a second if they win X rounds (1 or 2)


That's what I was thinking! Lol
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Jan. 4, 2020 at 8:42 p.m.
#47
Buds all day
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Quoting: DaBus
Hawks would never do that especially with retained salary. A basis would be Murphy + Nylander for Kapanen, Ceci, 2021 1st. There is a premium on RHD, Murphy is playing well and has a good contract.


I guess CHI didn't know about this premium when they traded Jokiharju for Nylander ???
 
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