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Waiving Folin Martinez in

Created by: Billy739
Team: 2019-20 Montreal Canadiens
Initial Creation Date: Jan. 5, 2020
Published: Jan. 6, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
i was reading a post earlier claiming that MTL hasnt indicated Folin's being sent down to Laval just yet and that they have 30 days to send him down after Clearing Waivers .

The Timing of it the same time Martinez a player Mellanby ,Timmons and Bergain all scouted him in November at different times. He's a 32 year old with another year left who's got the same cap as Scandella and a similar production rate the last 3 seasons .

For this reason Martinez coming back off injury to a team that's 2nd last in the West with 2 more games played then the worst team in the West . Given the similarities between both players and the fact that AM is 3 years older i think a 4th is fair .

Martinez can play both LD and RD allowing him to help Claude Julien with match ups . If they need Speed that night sit Fleury and play with Mete . If they need the opposite then put Fleury and Martinez together .

our D Core has options now if injuries happen again . Martinez can play both LD and RD giving up a player who can step up for the first time since Emelin .

Price -Miller tandem gives us options and if injury happens again then Miller or Price can play Tandem with Primeau .
Trades
1.
LAK
  1. 2020 4th round pick (ANA)
2.
MTL
  1. Miller, Ryan
Additional Details:
Conditional 3rd in 2020 becomes a 2nd if MTL makes ECF with Miller as Back Up in atleast 2 starts in the post season .
ANA
  1. Hudon, Charles
  2. 2020 3rd round pick (MTL)
Additional Details:
Hudon and a pick should do it
Millers 39 and a pending UFA
3.
MTL
  1. 2021 6th round pick (EDM)
Additional Details:
If Both Kulak and Kinkaid make it to the WCF with EDM and play atleast 3 games each then MTL also gets a 6th in 2020 .
EDM
  1. Kinkaid, Keith ($750,000 retained)
  2. Kulak, Brett
Additional Details:
EDM gets depth for a playoff push for a low risk gamble of a 6th
Buyouts
Retained Salary Transactions
Buried
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
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2021
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2022
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$75,640,475$0$4,257,500$5,859,525

Roster

Left WingCentreRight Wing
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$4,800,000$4,800,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
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$3,083,333$3,083,333
C
UFA - 2
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$3,750,000$3,750,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$5,500,000$5,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,150,000$3,150,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$425,000$425K)
C
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,400,000$2,400,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$2,500,000$2M)
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,600,000$2,600,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
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$350,000$350,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,000,000$1,000,000
C
UFA - 1
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$3,400,000$3,400,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
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$1,000,000$1,000,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,400,000$1,400,000
C, RW, LW
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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$1,750,000$1,750,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
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$7,857,143$7,857,143
RD
UFA - 7
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$10,500,000$10,500,000
G
NMC
UFA - 7
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,000,000$2,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$5,500,000$5,500,000
RD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$748,333$748,333
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
$4,000,000$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
$1,125,000$1,125,000 (Performance Bonus$1,200,000$1M)
G
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$771,666$771,666 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
RD
RFA - 2

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Jan. 6, 2020 at 11:46 a.m.
#1
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Miller isnt waiving for MTL, hes staying on the west coast if he does get moved which probably wont happen anyways
Jan. 6, 2020 at 11:55 a.m.
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Billy739
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Quoting: Salzy
Miller isnt waiving for MTL, hes staying on the west coast if he does get moved which probably wont happen anyways


do you know him ?
can you provide a quite that indicates these are his feelings?

Or is this assumption based on nothing ?
Jan. 6, 2020 at 12:04 p.m.
#3
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Edited Jan. 6, 2020 at 12:13 p.m.
Quoting: Billy739
do you know him ?
can you provide a quite that indicates these are his feelings?

Or is this assumption based on nothing ?


Hes said he wants to stay close to his family, montreal is about as far away as he can go. He can block a trade to all but 6 teams, guarantee hes blocking to montreal. Especially considering they're a fringe team at best

EDIT: If i had to guess, SJ, LA, ARI, VAN, VGK, then EDM/CGY are the teams not on his no trade list

And heres your quote with some context:

Even with Miller playing for the Ducks, the family must rent an apartment in Newport Beach, closer to the Honda Center while also owning a residence West Hollywood so DeWulf (Miller's Wife) can stay closer to Tinseltown. As Josh Cooper discovered in his interview with Miller for The Athletic, the distance between Hollywood and Anaheim can even be too far sometimes.

“It was, ‘What’s the point of everyone driving down so I could see them for two hours?’ Just that kind of thing. You’re like an hour or an hour-and-a-half away and you can’t make it happen,” he said.
Jan. 6, 2020 at 12:07 p.m.
#4
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Gonna have to add some assets to that Martinez deal IMO
Jan. 6, 2020 at 12:14 p.m.
#5
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Martinez plays big minutes and has another year on his contract, we'd rather keep him than just get a 4th.
Jan. 6, 2020 at 12:33 p.m.
#6
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Maybe try to get Halak from BOS for Kinkaid+? Halak and Price played together and Halak could give Byron a RoLeX for 41
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Jan. 6, 2020 at 12:39 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: MaxDomi13
Maybe try to get Halak from BOS for Kinkaid+? Halak and Price played together and Halak could give Byron a RoLeX for 41


you win this post :P

i'd like that more
dealing with Miller fans who forget his Wife made her Career on the East Coast getting discovered for Anger Management but since the show ended she's struggled greatly to re-establish herself .

Halak's wife doesnt factor in automatically making it better from an Arm Chair Gm's POV :P
Jan. 6, 2020 at 12:40 p.m.
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Quoting: Billy739
you win this post :P

i'd like that more
dealing with Miller fans who forget his Wife made her Career on the East Coast getting discovered for Anger Management but since the show ended she's struggled greatly to re-establish herself .

Halak's wife doesnt factor in automatically making it better from an Arm Chair Gm's POV :P


wives?
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Jan. 6, 2020 at 12:43 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: tryger
Martinez plays big minutes and has another year on his contract, we'd rather keep him than just get a 4th.


coming off injury on a 3 year decline with similar numbers and pay to Scandella who was just acquired for a 4th .

If either Scandella or Martinez was capable of playing 82 games every year then sure they'd get more
but they seem to get more banged up every year

type in 2020 UFA's then highlight all the D available .
Martinez is like 25th down the list behind a ton of more solid players
if this was any other year there would be like 10 UFA's of Martinez caliber or better
but this year there is alot and with Expansion draft next year a lot of teams are looking to move D they wont be able to protect .
Jan. 6, 2020 at 12:45 p.m.
#10
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Billy739
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Quoting: MaxDomi13
wives?


original commentor's entire opinion was based on Miller having to stay out west for his family aka wife .
its the automatic default comment of those stuck in 2014 who have never seen his wife act outside of Anger Management .

they assume Millers her dog for some reason on every post i've ever made trying to acquire him .
His wife was born in NY , he was born in MI yet it apparently makes sense for them to be in the West Coast because she acts.(despite most of her success coming from east coast productions )
Jan. 6, 2020 at 12:58 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: Billy739
original commentor's entire opinion was based on Miller having to stay out west for his family aka wife .
its the automatic default comment of those stuck in 2014 who have never seen his wife act outside of Anger Management .

they assume Millers her dog for some reason on every post i've ever made trying to acquire him .
His wife was born in NY , he was born in MI yet it apparently makes sense for them to be in the West Coast because she acts.(despite most of her success coming from east coast productions )


He's flat out said he wants to stay on the west coast, you're just ignorant
Jan. 6, 2020 at 1:03 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: Salzy
He's flat out said he wants to stay on the west coast, you're just ignorant


i asked you twice for a source , who's ignorant again ?

i can say Abraham Lincoln said you throw like a girl
if i refuse to offer a source twice then lash out when people call me on it .... well i'd look foolish
Jan. 6, 2020 at 1:10 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: Billy739
i asked you twice for a source , who's ignorant again ?

i can say Abraham Lincoln said you throw like a girl
if i refuse to offer a source twice then lash out when people call me on it .... well i'd look foolish


You asked once? I gave you a quote

“It has always kind of been the goal to kind of make sure that she lived the life she wants to live and I can live the life I want to live, and when an opportunity came to kind of be here or make an attempt to kind of be here [in Southern California], we pushed hard.”

Theres another

https://thehockeywriters.com/anaheim-ducks-miller-future/
https://theathletic.com/463042/2018/08/13/ryan-miller-on-the-life-of-a-dad-who-also-plays-professional-hockey/

Here are articles that mention his desire to stay out west.

Do your own research before you come to stupid conclusions
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Jan. 6, 2020 at 1:23 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: Salzy
You asked once? I gave you a quote

“It has always kind of been the goal to kind of make sure that she lived the life she wants to live and I can live the life I want to live, and when an opportunity came to kind of be here or make an attempt to kind of be here [in Southern California], we pushed hard.”

Theres another

https://thehockeywriters.com/anaheim-ducks-miller-future/
https://theathletic.com/463042/2018/08/13/ryan-miller-on-the-life-of-a-dad-who-also-plays-professional-hockey/

Here are articles that mention his desire to stay out west.

Do your own research before you come to stupid conclusions


its not on me to prove your points
that's not how life works SMH

where are you from that they teach you to be that lazy?

i was all good to give you credit for finally getting off your ass
but to be honest what you deserve is a block because this will be an issue going forward if you expect me to prove your points for you

(and click )
Jan. 6, 2020 at 1:30 p.m.
#15
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Quoting: Billy739
its not on me to prove your points
that's not how life works SMH

where are you from that they teach you to be that lazy?

i was all good to give you credit for finally getting off your ass
but to be honest what you deserve is a block because this will be an issue going forward if you expect me to prove your points for you

(and click )


tears of joy get proved wrong multiple times and block, you must be fun at parties
Jan. 6, 2020 at 1:32 p.m.
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Quoting: tryger
Martinez plays big minutes and has another year on his contract, we'd rather keep him than just get a 4th.


That return for Martinez is a joke. He is worth a 2nd round pick and an A prospect. Very underrated.
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Jan. 6, 2020 at 3:44 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: Billy739
coming off injury on a 3 year decline with similar numbers and pay to Scandella who was just acquired for a 4th .

If either Scandella or Martinez was capable of playing 82 games every year then sure they'd get more
but they seem to get more banged up every year

type in 2020 UFA's then highlight all the D available .
Martinez is like 25th down the list behind a ton of more solid players
if this was any other year there would be like 10 UFA's of Martinez caliber or better
but this year there is alot and with Expansion draft next year a lot of teams are looking to move D they wont be able to protect .


Quoting: Hockeyguy77
That return for Martinez is a joke. He is worth a 2nd round pick and an A prospect. Very underrated.


You're not going to get Martinez for a 4th round pick. You're not going to get a 2nd and an A prospect for Martinez either.

Martinez is a quality 2nd pairing defenseman that can play on both sides and has substantial playoff experience with multiple Cups (not to mention two clutch OT series clenching goals). This last injury was a freak accident where his wrist got cut with a skate blade and required surgery. It's not like he's Marian Gaborik and just can't manage to stay healthy.

He's not Jake Muzzin, so he's not going to warrant a 1st round pick and two B prospects. However, he's better than Scandella and has an extra year on his contract at a team-friendly cap hit, so he's worth a lot more than a 4th. I think a 2nd and a 3rd (or prospect equivalents) is just about right for Martinez. If a team wants LA to retain half of Martinez's contract (Montreal shouldn't need them to), then the 3rd jumps up to an additional 2nd.

A 2nd and Ikonen or a 3rd and Ylonen would work.
Jan. 7, 2020 at 2:41 p.m.
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Quoting: tkecanuck341
You're not going to get Martinez for a 4th round pick. You're not going to get a 2nd and an A prospect for Martinez either.

Martinez is a quality 2nd pairing defenseman that can play on both sides and has substantial playoff experience with multiple Cups (not to mention two clutch OT series clenching goals). This last injury was a freak accident where his wrist got cut with a skate blade and required surgery. It's not like he's Marian Gaborik and just can't manage to stay healthy.

He's not Jake Muzzin, so he's not going to warrant a 1st round pick and two B prospects. However, he's better than Scandella and has an extra year on his contract at a team-friendly cap hit, so he's worth a lot more than a 4th. I think a 2nd and a 3rd (or prospect equivalents) is just about right for Martinez. If a team wants LA to retain half of Martinez's contract (Montreal shouldn't need them to), then the 3rd jumps up to an additional 2nd.

A 2nd and Ikonen or a 3rd and Ylonen would work.


You undervalue Martinez, you always have. You once told me he’s nothing, but a solid 3rd pair defenseman. A return for him could be very sweet and bitter I suppose(at least for us Kings fans who appreciate him) it’s not like Toffoli or Kreider where you know what they can do, but not sure if you’re going to get it from them. With Martinez, everyone knows what he can bring and he will BRING IT. He’s all heart and will do ANYTHING for his team and you can’t put a price on that especially in the playoffs. Teams in a contending spot will overpay for him and that’s if you consider a 2nd and an A prospect an overpay which I do not.
Jan. 7, 2020 at 2:58 p.m.
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Quoting: Hockeyguy77
You undervalue Martinez, you always have. You once told me he’s nothing, but a solid 3rd pair defenseman. A return for him could be very sweet and bitter I suppose(at least for us Kings fans who appreciate him) it’s not like Toffoli or Kreider where you know what they can do, but not sure if you’re going to get it from them. With Martinez, everyone knows what he can bring and he will BRING IT. He’s all heart and will do ANYTHING for his team and you can’t put a price on that especially in the playoffs. Teams in a contending spot will overpay for him and that’s if you consider a 2nd and an A prospect an overpay which I do not.


What I actually said was that Martinez is a decent 4/5 defenseman. He's an average #4 or an exceptional #5 on a contender. To expect him to jump in on your team and be a quality top four guy is asking too much. If he's playing more than about 20 minutes, you have defensive problems.

When the Kings were a quality team, Martinez was a 3rd pairing defenseman (paired with Greene in both cup runs in 2012 and 2014). With the departure of Mitchell and Voynov, the Kings had to use him in a role exceeding his talents, and they have suffered for it.

I like Martinez. I think he's a solid defensive defenseman with leadership qualities and all of the intangibles that you describe. However, I don't think 1 year of his services are worth an A prospect.
Jan. 7, 2020 at 3:15 p.m.
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Quoting: tkecanuck341
What I actually said was that Martinez is a decent 4/5 defenseman. He's an average #4 or an exceptional #5 on a contender. To expect him to jump in on your team and be a quality top four guy is asking too much. If he's playing more than about 20 minutes, you have defensive problems.

When the Kings were a quality team, Martinez was a 3rd pairing defenseman (paired with Greene in both cup runs in 2012 and 2014). With the departure of Mitchell and Voynov, the Kings had to use him in a role exceeding his talents, and they have suffered for it.

I like Martinez. I think he's a solid defensive defenseman with leadership qualities and all of the intangibles that you describe. However, I don't think 1 year of his services are worth an A prospect.


The only reason Martinez was on the 3rd pair was because the Kings already had Scuderi/Regehr, Doughty, Voynov, and Mitchell. The role did not “exceed his talents” Kings lost their 2nd best defenseman Voynov and that screwed the whole team, had nothing to do with Martinez not having enough talent. If it was just Mitchell we lost on that blue line they still would have been contenders with Martinez - Voynov as there 2nd pair. You are a season ticket holder, you should be able to put that together.
Jan. 7, 2020 at 3:25 p.m.
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Quoting: Hockeyguy77
The only reason Martinez was on the 3rd pair was because the Kings already had Scuderi/Regehr, Doughty, Voynov, and Mitchell. The role did not “exceed his talents” Kings lost their 2nd best defenseman Voynov and that screwed the whole team, had nothing to do with Martinez not having enough talent. If it was just Mitchell we lost on that blue line they still would have been contenders with Martinez - Voynov as there 2nd pair. You are a season ticket holder, you should be able to put that together.


You are agreeing with me.

I agree Martinez would have been fine on the 2nd line with Voynov, where he would be serving as the Kings #4 defenseman behind Doughty, Muzzin, and Voynov. Would that be the best top 4 in the NHL? No. Like I said, Martinez is an average #4 guy. If they were able to upgrade at the 2LD slot, they could shift him down to 3LD and then possibly have the best defensive corps in the NHL again. Like I said, Martinez would be an exceptional #5 guy. When he played in this role, the Kings had arguably the best defense in the league and it won them two cups.

However, since they did lose Mitchell and Voynov, Martinez shifted up to the #3 spot on the team and the Kings stopped being a contender.
Jan. 7, 2020 at 3:39 p.m.
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Quoting: tkecanuck341
You are agreeing with me.

I agree Martinez would have been fine on the 2nd line with Voynov, where he would be serving as the Kings #4 defenseman behind Doughty, Muzzin, and Voynov. Would that be the best top 4 in the NHL? No. Like I said, Martinez is an average #4 guy. If they were able to upgrade at the 2LD slot, they could shift him down to 3LD and then possibly have the best defensive corps in the NHL again. Like I said, Martinez would be an exceptional #5 guy. When he played in this role, the Kings had arguably the best defense in the league and it won them two cups.

However, since they did lose Mitchell and Voynov, Martinez shifted up to the #3 spot on the team and the Kings stopped being a contender.


You can’t blame Martinez for being the reason the Kings stopped being a contender because he couldn’t replace Voynov. That’s a serious lack of knowledge if that is what you are suggesting.

Yes that top 4 would be among the best in the NHL AT THE TIME
Muzzin Doughty
Martinez Voynov
And many would agree.
Martinez is a very good #4 guy I don’t get how you could disagree. Playing him on a 3rd pair would be a waste of his talents. But obviously if that were the case on a very stacked blue line like the 2014 LA Kings he would be among the best defensemen played on the 3rd pair.
Jan. 7, 2020 at 4:16 p.m.
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Quoting: Hockeyguy77
You can’t blame Martinez for being the reason the Kings stopped being a contender because he couldn’t replace Voynov. That’s a serious lack of knowledge if that is what you are suggesting.

Yes that top 4 would be among the best in the NHL AT THE TIME
Muzzin Doughty
Martinez Voynov
And many would agree.
Martinez is a very good #4 guy I don’t get how you could disagree. Playing him on a 3rd pair would be a waste of his talents. But obviously if that were the case on a very stacked blue line like the 2014 LA Kings he would be among the best defensemen played on the 3rd pair.


Nashville had Shea Weber, Roman Josi, Seth Jones, Ryan Ellis, and Mattias Ekholm in 2014-15. Surely you don't think that Martinez would be an improvement over any of those guys, even at that time.

I don't solely blame Martinez. I blame Voynov for hitting his girlfriend, Lombardi for not re-signing Mitchell, as well as a number of other factors. But yes, the primary reason I attribute to the Kings decline is the middling of their defensive corps from the elite squad that it was from 2011-2014.
Jan. 7, 2020 at 4:50 p.m.
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Quoting: tkecanuck341
Nashville had Shea Weber, Roman Josi, Seth Jones, Ryan Ellis, and Mattias Ekholm in 2014-15. Surely you don't think that Martinez would be an improvement over any of those guys, even at that time.

I don't solely blame Martinez. I blame Voynov for hitting his girlfriend, Lombardi for not re-signing Mitchell, as well as a number of other factors. But yes, the primary reason I attribute to the Kings decline is the middling of their defensive corps from the elite squad that it was from 2011-2014.


Even if Lombardi resigned Mitchell there was nobody else of Voynovs caliber to bring what he brought. And I said it would be ONE of the best top 4 blue lines.
Jan. 7, 2020 at 5:11 p.m.
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Quoting: Hockeyguy77
Even if Lombardi resigned Mitchell there was nobody else of Voynovs caliber to bring what he brought. And I said it would be ONE of the best top 4 blue lines.


We'll have to agree to disagree.

Even if Martinez were the caliber you suggest, he is now on the wrong side of 30 and is no longer the player he once was. He still does admirably well at shot blocking and killing penalties, but he has taken a step backward in the mobility department and isn't capable of being the puck-mover of a defensive pair. IMO, a contending team looking to solidify their #4 or #5 slot could definitely use his services, but he's not going to be THE piece that pushes a team over the edge to winning a Cup.

I would be ecstatic if the Kings got 3rd and Ylonen in exchange for Martinez.
 
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