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Shore Up the D

Created by: johnston3504
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Jan. 8, 2020
Published: Jan. 8, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Trades
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
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2021
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2022
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
21$81,500,000$76,397,143$0$70,000$5,102,857
Left WingCentreRight Wing
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$11,634,000$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
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$10,893,000$10,893,000
RW
UFA - 6
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$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
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$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, C, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
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$694,444$694,444 (Performance Bonus$70,000$70K)
LW
UFA - 1
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$700,000$700,000
C, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
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$3,200,000$3,200,000
RW
UFA - 3
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$775,000$775,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
$2,050,000$2,050,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,000,000$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,750,000$2,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$863,333$863,333
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$675,000$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,300,000$5,300,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,250,000$5,250,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1

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Jan. 8, 2020 at 12:37 p.m.
#1
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You're giving nothing of value to ANA lol
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Jan. 8, 2020 at 12:39 p.m.
#2
Lenny7
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Not gonna do.

Lots of mid-6 wingers in Anaheim already. You fill a hole, Ducks dig one.
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Jan. 8, 2020 at 12:39 p.m.
#3
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Quoting: AFOX10900
You're giving nothing of value to ANA lol


better?
Jan. 8, 2020 at 12:40 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: Lenny7
Not gonna do.

Lots of mid-6 wingers in Anaheim already. You fill a hole, Ducks dig one.


changed it does this look better? could throw in a 3rd if need be
Jan. 8, 2020 at 12:41 p.m.
#5
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Duck fans think they are going to get Nylander for Manson. Unless you offer up Liljegren, a first and Johnsson they won't say its fair. Also Manson really isn't all that good. He had a terrific season 2 years ago and has just been average since.
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Jan. 8, 2020 at 12:42 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Duck fans think they are going to get Nylander for Manson. Unless you offer up Liljegren, a first and Johnsson they won't say its fair. Also Manson really isn't all that good. He had a terrific season 2 years ago and has just been average since.


i agree with you he is a decent rh D i figured johnsson is expendable to us and so is bracco and ceci is just cap room who jumps off the books next year.
Jan. 8, 2020 at 12:43 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Duck fans think they are going to get Nylander for Manson. Unless you offer up Liljegren, a first and Johnsson they won't say its fair. Also Manson really isn't all that good. He had a terrific season 2 years ago and has just been average since.


No ducks fan with half a brain thinks that at all. We can't afford to move Manson for less than an overpay, which is admitting we are getting more than he's worth.

We don't have the depth to move him for a mid six winger which we dont need, a B prospect at best and Ceci
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Jan. 8, 2020 at 12:46 p.m.
#8
What in tarnation
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Edited Jan. 8, 2020 at 12:51 p.m.
Considering how important Manson is to ANA (basically their only NHL level RHD), TOR needs to overpay a lot.

This trade has no incentive for Ducks whatsoever. They don't need any of the players offered.
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Jan. 8, 2020 at 12:47 p.m.
#9
Lenny7
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Quoting: johnston3504
changed it does this look better? could throw in a 3rd if need be


Quoting: johnston3504
i agree with you he is a decent rh D i figured johnsson is expendable to us and so is bracco and ceci is just cap room who jumps off the books next year.


Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Duck fans think they are going to get Nylander for Manson. Unless you offer up Liljegren, a first and Johnsson they won't say its fair. Also Manson really isn't all that good. He had a terrific season 2 years ago and has just been average since.


At this point, the issue isn't "How good is Josh Manson?", it's "Does this trade help the Ducks long term, or hurt them?". Getting a mid-6 (Johnsson), Bracco, Ceci and potentially a 3rd doesn't help the Ducks. All it does is take away ice-time from the young guys that they're trying to develop in a lost season.

I get that you guys hate Ceci, but if you're going to argue about how Manson is mediocre, then keep Ceci! There! There's your cap space for next year. Problem solved.
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Jan. 8, 2020 at 12:58 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: Salzy
No ducks fan with half a brain thinks that at all. We can't afford to move Manson for less than an overpay, which is admitting we are getting more than he's worth.

We don't have the depth to move him for a mid six winger which we dont need, a B prospect at best and Ceci


You see I just understand that. If my team clearly isn't good enough to contend, I'd want them to sell everything that wasn't bolted to the floor and do a proper rebuild. This whole, he means something to our team that isn't good enough doesn't make sense. He means the same as Getzlaf, he's an asset that can be moved for a younger asset and other futures that can bring in players to build around. Is Manson going to help you be a contender anytime soon? No, he isn't good enough to make much of an impact, he's a great depth piece but only if you have the stars for him to support which you just don't have anymore. Go for a rebuild, sell everything and be the better for it. Otherwise you are going to be saying in a couple of years when you still aren't a contender that you should have traded him when he had value. Now he's 31 and not worth much.
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Jan. 8, 2020 at 1:01 p.m.
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Quoting: Lenny7
At this point, the issue isn't "How good is Josh Manson?", it's "Does this trade help the Ducks long term, or hurt them?". Getting a mid-6 (Johnsson), Bracco, Ceci and potentially a 3rd doesn't help the Ducks. All it does is take away ice-time from the young guys that they're trying to develop in a lost season.

I get that you guys hate Ceci, but if you're going to argue about how Manson is mediocre, then keep Ceci! There! There's your cap space for next year. Problem solved.


The argument is Manson is an upgrade over Ceci. And Johnsson is a 24 year old player whos proven he can contribute in the top 6. Maybe Anahiem flips him too, and Ceci and then keeps Bracco to see what he can do with in the NHL. Anahiem doesn't have any capable RHD beyond Manson. That is the problem, not trading or keeping Manson. They aren't good enough, they don't have enough prospects and keeping old guys so they can hope they somehow bounce back is just pointless. Rebuild, sell everything and come back stronger. Or be like LA.
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Jan. 8, 2020 at 1:10 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
You see I just understand that. If my team clearly isn't good enough to contend, I'd want them to sell everything that wasn't bolted to the floor and do a proper rebuild. This whole, he means something to our team that isn't good enough doesn't make sense. He means the same as Getzlaf, he's an asset that can be moved for a younger asset and other futures that can bring in players to build around. Is Manson going to help you be a contender anytime soon? No, he isn't good enough to make much of an impact, he's a great depth piece but only if you have the stars for him to support which you just don't have anymore. Go for a rebuild, sell everything and be the better for it. Otherwise you are going to be saying in a couple of years when you still aren't a contender that you should have traded him when he had value. Now he's 31 and not worth much.


None of the pieces offered above help the rebuild enough, we could get better pieces elsewhere if this is all TOR is offering. I would take one piece at a higher value than AJ (Mid six winger) when we have Terry, Jones, Silf, Kase, Ritchie, and Comtois among others. And Bracco is not an impressive prospect and Ceci is a cap dump. How does this help us now or moving forward?

Manson has value in intangibles as well with a young roster that value cannot be ignored

Manson can easily get something of more value to the ducks. This packages value to TOR doesn't affect its attractiveness to ANA at all and we can do better if he's moved at filling our needs
Jan. 8, 2020 at 1:15 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: Salzy
None of the pieces offered above help the rebuild enough, we could get better pieces elsewhere if this is all TOR is offering. I would take one piece at a higher value than AJ (Mid six winger) when we have Terry, Jones, Silf, Kase, Ritchie, and Comtois among others. And Bracco is not an impressive prospect and Ceci is a cap dump. How does this help us now or moving forward?

Manson has value in intangibles as well with a young roster that value cannot be ignored

Manson can easily get something of more value to the ducks. This packages value to TOR doesn't affect its attractiveness to ANA at all and we can do better if he's moved at filling our needs


I agree that the package above isn't all that great. I just think that the important thing for the Ducks is getting younger, faster and more talented. I also think they need to be one of the worst teams in the league for the next 2-4 seasons. Bottom out completely get a couple of top 3 picks and have your star core moving forward. None of the prospects you have are elite players. Many look like they'll be great pieces but you just don't have any star franchise centres coming down the line. Bottom out, lose a lot, trade everything that isn't going to be a great piece in 2-4 years and regroup. Keeping guys because you want to see a team overpay is wasteful.
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Jan. 8, 2020 at 1:22 p.m.
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
I agree that the package above isn't all that great. I just think that the important thing for the Ducks is getting younger, faster and more talented. I also think they need to be one of the worst teams in the league for the next 2-4 seasons. Bottom out completely get a couple of top 3 picks and have your star core moving forward. None of the prospects you have are elite players. Many look like they'll be great pieces but you just don't have any star franchise centres coming down the line. Bottom out, lose a lot, trade everything that isn't going to be a great piece in 2-4 years and regroup. Keeping guys because you want to see a team overpay is wasteful.


I agree that keeping assets for the sake of waiting for an overpay is a mistake. I hold Manson till the draft probably and take the best offer you get by then, maybe even wait until a few weeks into FA and see if a team missed on a FA and need a RD then.

I disagree with not having Elite prospects I think Zegras will be a true #1C. This season we should be adding a top 5 prospect in a great draft. We have cap space and can turn this around closer to 2 years than 4

Zegras, Steel, 2020 1st rounder, Comtois, Lindholm, Gibson, Rakell on top of guys like Kase, Jones, Terry, Lundestrom, Mahura, Guhle, Larsson the ducks are well on the way to having a solid roster for years to come
Jan. 8, 2020 at 1:40 p.m.
#15
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Yea, I understand why the Ducks don't like the deal, but I don't understand why the Leafs do the deal either. Manson isn't that special now, and Ceci certainly has been OK..
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Jan. 8, 2020 at 1:40 p.m.
#16
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
The argument is Manson is an upgrade over Ceci. And Johnsson is a 24 year old player whos proven he can contribute in the top 6. Maybe Anahiem flips him too, and Ceci and then keeps Bracco to see what he can do with in the NHL. Anahiem doesn't have any capable RHD beyond Manson. That is the problem, not trading or keeping Manson. They aren't good enough, they don't have enough prospects and keeping old guys so they can hope they somehow bounce back is just pointless. Rebuild, sell everything and come back stronger. Or be like LA.


And that's all fine, but I'm not sure why the Ducks would just limit themselves players deemed to be expendable by Toronto? The Ducks could even retain 50% on him and trade him to any number of contenders out there with the same cap issues that the Leafs have. All of this also doesn't even take into account the fact that this is going to make it even harder going into the expansion draft, and means they'll lose someone of value, which at this point isn't something that they can afford to do.
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Jan. 8, 2020 at 1:45 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: Salzy
I agree that keeping assets for the sake of waiting for an overpay is a mistake. I hold Manson till the draft probably and take the best offer you get by then, maybe even wait until a few weeks into FA and see if a team missed on a FA and need a RD then.

I disagree with not having Elite prospects I think Zegras will be a true #1C. This season we should be adding a top 5 prospect in a great draft. We have cap space and can turn this around closer to 2 years than 4

Zegras, Steel, 2020 1st rounder, Comtois, Lindholm, Gibson, Rakell on top of guys like Kase, Jones, Terry, Lundestrom, Mahura, Guhle, Larsson the ducks are well on the way to having a solid roster for years to come


Maybe, but I still would be cautious, being a Leafs fan, I saw Burke come in and think getting Kessel was the difference, it obviously wasn't and I think jumping the gun is something a lot of GM's do because owners want playoff revenues and fans are just emotional and want to see wins and almost never think beyond right now.
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Jan. 8, 2020 at 1:52 p.m.
#18
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Quoting: Lenny7
And that's all fine, but I'm not sure why the Ducks would just limit themselves players deemed to be expendable by Toronto? The Ducks could even retain 50% on him and trade him to any number of contenders out there with the same cap issues that the Leafs have. All of this also doesn't even take into account the fact that this is going to make it even harder going into the expansion draft, and means they'll lose someone of value, which at this point isn't something that they can afford to do.


If they can get more for Manson, then sure that would be great. I just don't know if he's played well enough the past 2 years to warrant such a big return.
Jan. 8, 2020 at 1:56 p.m.
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Maybe, but I still would be cautious, being a Leafs fan, I saw Burke come in and think getting Kessel was the difference, it obviously wasn't and I think jumping the gun is something a lot of GM's do because owners want playoff revenues and fans are just emotional and want to see wins and almost never think beyond right now.


I'm fine being cautious, The ducks were one of the winningest teams (reg season) in the 2010s not to win a cup. we've had our success from 2007 cup win until 2018 a rebuild is to be expected. trading assets for the sake of trading them would be just as big of a misstep as holding onto them imo. If you can fill some needs by doing it great but don't take the first offer that comes around when they don't need to rush trading Manson.

We have key spots filled #1 Dman (Lindholm), Top 3 goalie in the league in Gibson. that are both young enough, on top of solid top 6 players in Rakell and Steel, with Zegras coming in a couple years This draft is huge in how long the rebuild will take
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Jan. 8, 2020 at 2:02 p.m.
#20
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Quoting: Salzy
I'm fine being cautious, The ducks were one of the winningest teams (reg season) in the 2010s not to win a cup. we've had our success from 2007 cup win until 2018 a rebuild is to be expected. trading assets for the sake of trading them would be just as big of a misstep as holding onto them imo. If you can fill some needs by doing it great but don't take the first offer that comes around when they don't need to rush trading Manson.

We have key spots filled #1 Dman (Lindholm), Top 3 goalie in the league in Gibson. that are both young enough, on top of solid top 6 players in Rakell and Steel, with Zegras coming in a couple years This draft is huge in how long the rebuild will take


I didn't realize how young Lindholm is. I figured he was 28 or something. Gibson is deadly yeah. But I still think you need a top end franchise centre and I don't think any of the prospects you currently have are going to be that level of player. Also getting one doesn't mean you are going to be a contender. Look at Vancouver, they can say pretty much everything you can but they have a legit #1 centre and their #2 is also better than any centre you currently have, but they don't have much else beyond that. Benning thinks they are ready but they really aren't.
Jan. 8, 2020 at 2:13 p.m.
#21
Lenny7
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
If they can get more for Manson, then sure that would be great. I just don't know if he's played well enough the past 2 years to warrant such a big return.


If the intent is just to trade away Manson, I guess I'd prefer ELC's and/or picks that aren't expansion draft eligible, so they can set themselves up going forward. Even 2021 1st (Late first that's not this year would be somewhat close to Johnsson's value, correct?)+Ceci+Bracco makes more sense to me than this.
Jan. 8, 2020 at 2:37 p.m.
#22
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Quoting: Lenny7
If the intent is just to trade away Manson, I guess I'd prefer ELC's and/or picks that aren't expansion draft eligible, so they can set themselves up going forward. Even 2021 1st (Late first that's not this year would be somewhat close to Johnsson's value, correct?)+Ceci+Bracco makes more sense to me than this.


Yeah and that is likely what you'll get for Manson, I am just not sure I want TO to trade another 1st away. Sure they have the best player development department in the league, (perhaps the most well funded) and they seem to be able to turn later picks into serviceable players, but its easier with 1st round picks so I am loath to give up another one.
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