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Avs Price

Created by: mattice
Team: 2019-20 Montreal Canadiens
Initial Creation Date: Jan. 13, 2020
Published: Jan. 13, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Trades
MTL
  1. Grubauer, Philipp
  2. Kaut, Martin
  3. 2021 4th round pick (COL)
COL
  1. Evans, Jake
  2. Price, Carey
  3. 2021 3rd round pick (CHI)
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Buried
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
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2021
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2022
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
28$81,500,000$69,681,308$0$3,977,500$11,818,692
Left WingCentreRight Wing
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$5,500,000$5,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
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$3,150,000$3,150,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,750,000$3,750,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$4,800,000$4,800,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,400,000$1,400,000
C, RW, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,350,000$2,350,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,400,000$3,400,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,000,000$1,000,000
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,600,000$2,600,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,400,000$2,400,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,083,333$3,083,333
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,300,000$1,300,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,000,000$1,000,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$350,000$350,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$2,500,000$2M)
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
C, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$425,000$425K)
C
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$763,333$763,333 (Performance Bonus$70,000$70K)
RW, LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$894,167$894,167
RW
RFA - 4
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,000,000$2,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$7,857,143$7,857,143
RD
UFA - 7
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,750,000$1,750,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$5,500,000$5,500,000
RD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$750,000$750,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$925,000$925,000
LD/RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$771,666$771,666 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
RD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$3,333,333$3,333,333
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$748,333$748,333
LD/RD
UFA - 1

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Jan. 13, 2020 at 4:01 p.m.
#26
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Quoting: TML1991
Price is not the best goalie or a top goalie in the league anymore. He's not just having "a down year", he's on his 3rd down year now, and 2 out of 3 have been garbage There's a serious anchoring effect with the value of price. Out of the goalies over the last 2.5 seasons with over 2000 minutes TOI (52 goalies)

Price ranks 22nd in SV% (0.9115) - Grub is 15th at (0.9134)

now obviously there's a huge team element there, because grub has been on good teams, so if you take a look at their performance against expectations, which attempts to isolate goalie results from their team's performance, the picture continues to show price has not been good. Expectations look at the difficulty of each save and compare it to the expected save % for that situation, and price has been below average.


Price ranks 33rd in dSV% at -0.25% below xSV% Grub is 24th at 0.08 above xSV% (dSV% = SV% - xSV% - aka difference between SV% and what they are expected to stop).

Price ranks 37th in Goals Saved Above Average at -7.46 GSAA while Grubauer is at 24th with a +1.51 GSAA

So Grub roughly meets expectations of a goalie in his situation, while price has been below average for a goalie in his situation. Even last year when price had a decent year, he still had a very average dSV% and GSAA both coming in around 0 (meets expectations). It's been a couple years since price has been a top goalie. He's 32, the decline will just continue, he might get a blip season in there, but the trend wont be much better over the next 6.5 years of that contract.

Fell free to back up your thoughts with some stats or something, instead of just saying he's a top goalie.


any goalie expert, coach, gm, league exec, player, despite the stats, would tell u that carey price is still the best goalie in the nhl. maybe even in the world. throw all the stats u want, but go ask a player who plays against him every season, and he'd laugh at your face smile
Jan. 13, 2020 at 4:25 p.m.
#27
TML1991
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Quoting: Price_is_the_goat
any goalie expert, coach, gm, league exec, player, despite the stats, would tell u that carey price is still the best goalie in the nhl. maybe even in the world. throw all the stats u want, but go ask a player who plays against him every season, and he'd laugh at your face smile


Look i can make up hypothetical responses too, that are just as relevant.

ask any goalie expert, coach, gm, league exec, janitor, bus driver, accountant, lawyer, or beer league player in the world, and despite all the stats (because you know stats and information is terrible and we shouldnt make informed decisions) they'd probably tell u that carey price is the best dang tackler since Joe Montana . He might even be best tackler in the world. throw all stats out you want, but go ask a janitor that once played a down against him in touch football, and he'd laugh at your face smile
Jan. 13, 2020 at 4:28 p.m.
#28
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Quoting: TML1991
Look i can make up hypothetical responses too, that are just as relevant.

ask any goalie expert, coach, gm, league exec, janitor, bus driver, accountant, lawyer, or beer league player in the world, and despite all the stats (because you know stats and information is terrible and we shouldnt make informed decisions) they'd probably tell u that carey price is the best dang tackler since Joe Montana . He might even be best tackler in the world. throw all stats out you want, but go ask a janitor that once played a down against him in touch football, and he'd laugh at your face smile


okay, so i'll just assume that you think that you know more than an nhl player. I see. i'll take ur word for it
Jan. 13, 2020 at 5:01 p.m.
#29
TML1991
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Quoting: Price_is_the_goat
okay, so i'll just assume that you think that you know more than an nhl player. I see. i'll take ur word for it


The last thing I want you to do is take anyone's word for it.

I literally asked you to do the following "Feel free to back up your thoughts with some stats or something, instead of just saying he's a top goalie."

That is the exact opposite of asking you to take my word for it. I'm asking you to consider the question, my response, and any other information out there you feel is relevant to support a conclusion, and then come back with an informed well thought out response. Not just a hypothetical response of "oh players and coaches would probably maybe kinda think he's the best goalie in the world, so there". Do better, build an argument, show me why Price is the best goalie and back it up with some legitimate recent information.

Yes the NHLPA player polls show a lot of the players think Price is a good goalie, but opinion polls are inherently biased regardless of what you are surveying, and feel free to look up issues with opinion polls. Now i'm not saying to disregard opinions, player polls, or eye-tests completely, but maybe consider looking at some stats to see if those eye-tests/opinions line up with what the results are showing, because in this case the gap based on the information out there tells me Carey Price is not the best goalie, or even a top goalie in the world anymore. At one point, I would agree, Price was the best goalie in the world, but that was probably 5ish years ago, and players age and skill sets decline. Feel free to look into the stats out there and draw your own conclusions instead of simply relying on my word, on the opinions of anyone out there, including the players.
Jan. 13, 2020 at 5:13 p.m.
#30
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Quoting: TML1991
The last thing I want you to do is take anyone's word for it.

I literally asked you to do the following "Feel free to back up your thoughts with some stats or something, instead of just saying he's a top goalie."

That is the exact opposite of asking you to take my word for it. I'm asking you to consider the question, my response, and any other information out there you feel is relevant to support a conclusion, and then come back with an informed well thought out response. Not just a hypothetical response of "oh players and coaches would probably maybe kinda think he's the best goalie in the world, so there". Do better, build an argument, show me why Price is the best goalie and back it up with some legitimate recent information.

Yes the NHLPA player polls show a lot of the players think Price is a good goalie, but opinion polls are inherently biased regardless of what you are surveying, and feel free to look up issues with opinion polls. Now i'm not saying to disregard opinions, player polls, or eye-tests completely, but maybe consider looking at some stats to see if those eye-tests/opinions line up with what the results are showing, because in this case the gap based on the information out there tells me Carey Price is not the best goalie, or even a top goalie in the world anymore. At one point, I would agree, Price was the best goalie in the world, but that was probably 5ish years ago, and players age and skill sets decline. Feel free to look into the stats out there and draw your own conclusions instead of simply relying on my word, on the opinions of anyone out there, including the players.


which nhl team did u play for? you brought up all these stats saying he's bad, and all i said was that an nhl player would disagree with u. so show me ur hockey DB.
Jan. 13, 2020 at 5:28 p.m.
#31
TML1991
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Quoting: Price_is_the_goat
which nhl team did u play for? you brought up all these stats saying he's bad, and all i said was that an nhl player would disagree with u. so show me ur hockey DB.


Unless I'm carey price my hockeyDB doesnt have any stats about price on it? so how is that relevant?

Again I'm all for a good debate, we can have different views but please back up that opinion with a source or some information. Stop just saying "oh pros think he's the best, must be true". Show me, and then show some additional information that supports that Debate the information I presented. Debating who presented it doesnt change the information.

Build an argument. Is that a terrible ask?
Jan. 13, 2020 at 5:30 p.m.
#32
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Quoting: TML1991
Unless I'm carey price my hockeyDB doesnt have any stats about price on it? so how is that relevant?

Again I'm all for a good debate, we can have different views but please back up that opinion with a source or some information. Stop just saying "oh pros think he's the best, must be true". Show me, and then show some additional information that supports that Debate the information I presented. Debating who presented it doesnt change the information.

Build an argument. Is that a terrible ask?


you want me start posting 100's of interviews with players calling him the best in the game? just google it lmaoo. like i said, there's a reason players, coaches, execs and gms consider him the best in the game. and if you think that your stats say other wise, i'll only believe that if you've played in the nhl against him.
Jan. 13, 2020 at 6:33 p.m.
#33
TML1991
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Quoting: Price_is_the_goat
you want me start posting 100's of interviews with players calling him the best in the game? just google it lmaoo. like i said, there's a reason players, coaches, execs and gms consider him the best in the game. and if you think that your stats say other wise, i'll only believe that if you've played in the nhl against him.


It's like pulling teeth with you.

Does their opinion align with any results that shows he's the best goalie. Yes or no? Which ones? Explain
Jan. 13, 2020 at 6:36 p.m.
#34
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Quoting: TML1991
It's like pulling teeth with you.

Does their opinion align with any results that shows he's the best goalie. Yes or no? Which ones? Explain


are u suggesting that u know more than nhlers who play against him? or u know more than gms and execs and coaches who work in the best hockey league in the world? are u saying that u know more than all of them?
Jan. 13, 2020 at 7:05 p.m.
#35
TML1991
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Quoting: Price_is_the_goat
are u suggesting that u know more than nhlers who play against him? or u know more than gms and execs and coaches who work in the best hockey league in the world? are u saying that u know more than all of them?


Let's make this real easy for you. My opinion of price based on what I have presented does not matter, and is completely irrelevant. Ignore my opinion of price.

Let's build an argument on why price is the best goalie. We will assume experts such as players have recently stated price is the best goalie in the world, just like you stated. We dont want to just trust the experts though, we should trust and verify.

Please answer the following 3 questions.

1. One word answer: Do you agree with the experts.

Yes or No?

2. What performance metrics from the last 3 seasons show price is the best goalie. List and explain these metrics and how price ranks.


3. One word answer: Do those performance metrics align with the experts.

Yes or No?



I am asking you to answer these 3 questions to build your argument that price is the best. My opinion does not matter.
Jan. 13, 2020 at 7:42 p.m.
#36
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Quoting: TML1991
Let's make this real easy for you. My opinion of price based on what I have presented does not matter, and is completely irrelevant. Ignore my opinion of price.

Let's build an argument on why price is the best goalie. We will assume experts such as players have recently stated price is the best goalie in the world, just like you stated. We dont want to just trust the experts though, we should trust and verify.

Please answer the following 3 questions.

1. One word answer: Do you agree with the experts.

Yes or No?

2. What performance metrics from the last 3 seasons show price is the best goalie. List and explain these metrics and how price ranks.


3. One word answer: Do those performance metrics align with the experts.

Yes or No?



I am asking you to answer these 3 questions to build your argument that price is the best. My opinion does not matter.


i dont care about ur opinion. i care what current nhles coaches execs and gms say about him. and you're acting like ur opinion matters more than theirs. i dont care about ur questions. if u can prove to me taht u know more than an nhlers, i'll answer ur question
Jan. 13, 2020 at 7:52 p.m.
#37
TML1991
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Quoting: Price_is_the_goat
i dont care about ur opinion. i care what current nhles coaches execs and gms say about him. and you're acting like ur opinion matters more than theirs. i dont care about ur questions. if u can prove to me taht u know more than an nhlers, i'll answer ur question


So you cant answer it. Got it. Not even one stat that shows he's the best goalie? One measly stat.

And since you only care what the experts say, how about this. price hasnt won the vezina since 2014-2015. An award for the goalie judged to be the best goalie, as voted on by the gms, the guys that are in charge of evaluating and putting together teams. Literally the execs have voted he has not been the best goalie for 5 years.

The gms agree with me. Prove to me you know more than the gms. I've shown why I agree with them.
Jan. 13, 2020 at 7:58 p.m.
#38
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Quoting: TML1991
So you cant answer it. Got it. Not even one stat that shows he's the best goalie? One measly stat.

And since you only care what the experts say, how about this. price hasnt won the vezina since 2014-2015. An award for the goalie judged to be the best goalie, as voted on by the gms, the guys that are in charge of evaluating and putting together teams. Literally the execs have voted he has not been the best goalie for 5 years.

The gms agree with me. Prove to me you know more than the gms. I've shown why I agree with them.


so im assuming youre a gm now, and you skipped over the tons of articles in which gms execs players admit that he is the best in the game? can u tell me which team u worked for? how u made the nhl? id love to know
Jan. 13, 2020 at 8:46 p.m.
#39
TML1991
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Quoting: Price_is_the_goat
so im assuming youre a gm now, and you skipped over the tons of articles in which gms execs players admit that he is the best in the game? can u tell me which team u worked for? how u made the nhl? id love to know


Not my opinion. I'm trusting the experts just like you said I should. It's the gms. They voted. Link all the articles you want but when push comes to shove, and the gms have to vote the results are clear. Price has not been the best goalie for 5 years, and was only voted the best goalie once in a 13 year career so far. Cant argue with that unless you're an expert, which neither of us are.

You'd think the GOAT would have more than 1 vezina. you should probably change your name.

The experts don't think he's best. Cant argue with them
Jan. 13, 2020 at 10:34 p.m.
#40
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Quoting: TML1991
Not my opinion. I'm trusting the experts just like you said I should. It's the gms. They voted. Link all the articles you want but when push comes to shove, and the gms have to vote the results are clear. Price has not been the best goalie for 5 years, and was only voted the best goalie once in a 13 year career so far. Cant argue with that unless you're an expert, which neither of us are.

You'd think the GOAT would have more than 1 vezina. you should probably change your name.

The experts don't think he's best. Cant argue with them


still waiting for the nhl resume. expoerts arent a bunch of nerds in front of a computer. id trust an athlete who put his life, sweat and tears to the game and actually faces price every season
Jan. 13, 2020 at 10:47 p.m.
#41
TML1991
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Quoting: Price_is_the_goat
still waiting for the nhl resume. expoerts arent a bunch of nerds in front of a computer. id trust an athlete who put his life, sweat and tears to the game and actually faces price every season


Every single response you have made is an appeal to authority, but I guess the gms arent good enough now. Guess when they don't fit your need they're no good, and then you start calling the other person a nerd. The source of information doesnt change its meaning. Want to use some more fallacies, maybe pull my hair or dunk my head in a toilet? Or can you form your thoughts? Build an argument on your own? or is that too nerdy?
Jan. 13, 2020 at 10:49 p.m.
#42
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Quoting: TML1991
Every single response you have made is an appeal to authority, but I guess the gms arent good enough now. Guess when they don't fit your need they're no good, and then you start calling the other person a nerd. The source of information doesnt change its meaning. Want to use some more fallacies, maybe pull my hair or dunk my head in a toilet? Or can you form your thoughts? Build an argument on your own? or is that too nerdy?


still waitiing for the resume. maybe u worked as a league exec? an nhl coach? gm? no? nhl player?
Jan. 13, 2020 at 11:24 p.m.
#43
TML1991
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Quoting: Price_is_the_goat
still waitiing for the resume. maybe u worked as a league exec? an nhl coach? gm? no? nhl player?


Authority appeal again, but you've already proven when the gms don't agree with you, like in the vezina voting, you will ignore it so even if I was an expert it wouldn't matter. Plus already told you neither of us were experts, so not sure what you're waiting for.

Im still waiting on an original thought, instead of more logical fallacies.

Think for yourself for once.
Jan. 14, 2020 at 9:31 a.m.
#44
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Stop with Price trades.
Price_is_the_goat liked this.
Jan. 14, 2020 at 11:31 a.m.
#45
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Quoting: TML1991
Authority appeal again, but you've already proven when the gms don't agree with you, like in the vezina voting, you will ignore it so even if I was an expert it wouldn't matter. Plus already told you neither of us were experts, so not sure what you're waiting for.

Im still waiting on an original thought, instead of more logical fallacies.

Think for yourself for once.


still waiting for that resume bud.
Jan. 14, 2020 at 11:45 a.m.
#46
TML1991
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Quoting: Price_is_the_goat
still waiting for that resume bud.


Try reading champ, it's not coming, and doesnt change the facts. Another authority appeal btw, nice job, you're really good at that!!

Unless you have an original thought that contributes to your claim price is good, jog on.
Jan. 14, 2020 at 11:49 a.m.
#47
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Quoting: TML1991
Try reading champ, it's not coming, and doesnt change the facts. Another authority appeal btw, nice job, you're really good at that!!

Unless you have an original thought that contributes to your claim price is good, jog on.


which nhl team did u play for? coach? worked as an exec? last i checked, majority of execs, players, coaches have to admit that he's the best in the game. u claim to know more than them? yes or no?
Jan. 14, 2020 at 12:02 p.m.
#48
TML1991
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Quoting: Price_is_the_goat
which nhl team did u play for? coach? worked as an exec? last i checked, majority of execs, players, coaches have to admit that he's the best in the game. u claim to know more than them? yes or no?


You can read right? NEV-ER WORK-ED FOR A TEAM. you can do it, come on read the last part a little. I know you can do it champ.

Also check your sources. GMs voted, he's not the best. My opinion doesnt matter, as you pointed it, only experts matter, I'm appealing to the GMs authority just like you.
Jan. 14, 2020 at 12:05 p.m.
#49
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Quoting: TML1991


yes they voted in vezina who is the best this season. that doesn't that goalie is the best over the years and in the future. and that is Price. a goalie might be playing better right now, but you put him against price, and price takes it. theres a reason players model themslelves after him. not andersen or lehner etc
Jan. 14, 2020 at 12:11 p.m.
#50
TML1991
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Quoting: Price_is_the_goat
yes they voted in vezina who is the best this season. that doesn't that goalie is the best over the years and in the future. and that is Price. a goalie might be playing better right now, but you put him against price, and price takes it. theres a reason players model themslelves after him. not andersen or lehner etc


Oh look an original thought. Feels good doesnt it?

Now back up that claim price is the best over the years with some info. Cant just take your word or experts word for it. There must be some stats that shows he's the best right?
 
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