Saad and Murphy for Nylander and Ceci

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
22	$81,500,000	$61,266,552	$0	$7,557,500	$20,233,448

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Nylander, Alexander $863,333$863,333 ($850,000$850K) RW, LW RFA - 2	Toews, Jonathan $10,500,000$10,500,000 C NMC UFA - 4	Nylander, William $6,962,366$6,962,366 RW UFA - 5
Kubalik, Dominik $925,000$925,000 ($850,000$850K) LW, RW UFA - 1	Dach, Kirby $925,000$925,000 ($2,500,000$2M) C, RW RFA - 3	Kane, Patrick $2,625,000$2,625,000 RW NMC UFA - 4
DeBrincat, Alex $778,333$778,333 ($32,500$32K) LW, RW UFA - 1	Strome, Dylan $863,333$863,333 ($2,475,000$2M) C UFA - 1	Raddysh, Taylor $833,333$833,333 RW RFA - 2
Smith, Zack $3,250,000$3,250,000 LW, C M-NTC UFA - 2	Carpenter, Ryan $1,000,000$1,000,000 RW, C UFA - 3	Kämpf, David $1,000,000$1,000,000 C UFA - 2

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Keith, Duncan $5,538,462$5,538,462 LD NMC UFA - 4	Boqvist, Adam $894,167$894,167 ($850,000$850K) RD RFA - 3	Crawford, Corey $6,000,000$6,000,000 G M-NTC, NMC UFA - 1
Määttä, Olli $3,333,225$3,333,225 LD UFA - 3	Ceci, Cody $4,500,000$4,500,000 RD UFA - 1	Lehner, Robin $1,400,000$1,400,000 G UFA - 1
Gilbert, Dennis $925,000$925,000 LD UFA - 2	Holden, Nick $2,200,000$2,200,000 LD UFA - 1

Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
Koekkoek, Slater $925,000$925,000 LD/RD UFA - 1		Seabrook, Brent $6,875,000$6,875,000 RD NMC UFA - 5
Wedin, Anton $925,000$925,000 LW, RW UFA - 1		De Haan, Calvin $4,550,000$4,550,000 LD/RD UFA - 3
		Shaw, Andrew $3,900,000$3,900,000 C, RW UFA - 3

Power Play 1
DeBrincat, A.	Raddysh, T.	Strome, D.
	Keith, D.	Kane, P.

Power Play 2
Nylander, A.	Toews, J.	Nylander, W.
	Boqvist, A.	Kubalik, D.

Penalty Kill 1
	Toews, J.	Carpenter, R.
	Keith, D.	Määttä, O.

Penalty Kill 2
	Kämpf, D.	Smith, Z.
	Gilbert, D.	Holden, N.

Jan. 13, 2020 at 9:11 p.m.

#1

littlejerryseinfeld

Joined: Nov. 2017

Posts: 27,622

Likes: 14,414

Horrible for Toronto

Jan. 13, 2020 at 9:13 p.m.

#2

justaBoss

What in tarnation

Joined: Oct. 2017

Posts: 32,709

Likes: 31,449

CHI needs to add. A lot. Saad and Murphy are near 30 with only couple of years left on their contracts, Nylander's what, 23 with 5 years left. Also he's better than both of them. There's 0 incentive for TOR to even consider it.

GenXHockey and MadLin27 liked this.

Jan. 13, 2020 at 9:20 p.m.

#3

exo2769

Joined: Jul. 2015

Posts: 15,587

Likes: 9,660

Can we stop with the Nylander to CHI trades.

SociallyHawkward, Petrock83, CFMan and 2 others liked this.

Jan. 13, 2020 at 9:28 p.m.

#4

GenXHockey

Formerly Jamiepo

Joined: Jul. 2018

Posts: 21,156

Likes: 10,700

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MadLin27 liked this.

Jan. 13, 2020 at 9:46 p.m.

#5

Capitalfail67

Caps fan idk why

Joined: Dec. 2016

Posts: 11,261

Likes: 4,353

Quoting: BurgerBoss

CHI needs to add. A lot. Saad and Murphy are near 30 with only couple of years left on their contracts, Nylander's what, 23 with 5 years left. Also he's better than both of them. There's 0 incentive for TOR to even consider it.

26 and 27 years old are near 30? Also Nylander is good but how good would he be away Matthews/Tavares? (Not knocking him just asking. Don’t get to see him play that often) I think the leafs could make a move for Murphy but Nylanders play this year would make him hard to move. If this was last year I wouldn’t argue but he’s drastically improved from last season. Looks like the player they expected him to be.

justaBoss, ChiHawk and Aussie_Blackhawk liked this.

Jan. 13, 2020 at 10:03 p.m.

#6

Petrock83

Joined: Jun. 2017

Posts: 1,519

Likes: 656

Please god stop trading for Nylander.

Aussie_Blackhawk liked this.

Jan. 13, 2020 at 10:05 p.m.

#7

TooMalevolent

Joined: Jul. 2017

Posts: 1,574

Likes: 455

This guy work at TSN? Just an awful trade.

Jan. 13, 2020 at 10:07 p.m.

#8

AnalyticsGeek

Banned

Joined: Sep. 2019

Posts: 5,011

Likes: 1,636

Quoting: TooMalevolent

This guy work at TSN? Just an awful trade.

Quoting: Petrock83

Please god stop trading for Nylander.

Quoting: BurgerBoss

CHI needs to add. A lot. Saad and Murphy are near 30 with only couple of years left on their contracts, Nylander's what, 23 with 5 years left. Also he's better than both of them. There's 0 incentive for TOR to even consider it.

Quoting: exo2769

Can we stop with the Nylander to CHI trades.

Quoting: Jamiepo

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quoting: Capitalfail67

26 and 27 years old are near 30? Also Nylander is good but how good would he be away Matthews/Tavares? (Not knocking him just asking. Don’t get to see him play that often) I think the leafs could make a move for Murphy but Nylanders play this year would make him hard to move. If this was last year I wouldn’t argue but he’s drastically improved from last season. Looks like the player they expected him to be.

Honestly if the Leafs part ways with one of their top forwards, I think it’s going to be Marner. Matthews & Tavares are both franchise centers and are simply untouchable. Nylander’s on an excellent contract which makes him much more valuable than Marner. Marner for Saad & Murphy woultd probably be fair. Hawks may need to add a 2nd Round pick.

ChiHawk and Aussie_Blackhawk liked this.

Jan. 13, 2020 at 10:11 p.m.

#9

TooMalevolent

Joined: Jul. 2017

Posts: 1,574

Likes: 455

The leafs don't trade any of their 4main guys upfront for Saad. And I rather like him, it's just not worth it with the age.

MadLin27 liked this.

Jan. 13, 2020 at 10:14 p.m.

#10

justaBoss

What in tarnation

Joined: Oct. 2017

Posts: 32,709

Likes: 31,449

Quoting: Capitalfail67

26 and 27 years old are near 30? Also Nylander is good but how good would he be away Matthews/Tavares? (Not knocking him just asking. Don’t get to see him play that often) I think the leafs could make a move for Murphy but Nylanders play this year would make him hard to move. If this was last year I wouldn’t argue but he’s drastically improved from last season. Looks like the player they expected him to be.

Let's just say they're much more near 30 than Nylander is...

Capitalfail67 liked this.

Jan. 13, 2020 at 10:16 p.m.

#11

justaBoss

What in tarnation

Joined: Oct. 2017

Posts: 32,709

Likes: 31,449

Quoting: MikeyThePensFan

Honestly if the Leafs part ways with one of their top forwards, I think it’s going to be Marner. Matthews & Tavares are both franchise centers and are simply untouchable. Nylander’s on an excellent contract which makes him much more valuable than Marner. Marner for Saad & Murphy woultd probably be fair. Hawks may need to add a 2nd Round pick.

Marner's 22 and once again in pace for almost 100 points. He might be a tad overpaid, but he's above Nylander and basically all players from CHI in value...

Jan. 13, 2020 at 11:27 p.m.

#12

ChiHawk

Joined: Apr. 2017

Posts: 18,989

Likes: 9,300

Quoting: BurgerBoss

CHI needs to add. A lot. Saad and Murphy are near 30 with only couple of years left on their contracts, Nylander's what, 23 with 5 years left. Also he's better than both of them. There's 0 incentive for TOR to even consider it.

LMAO Saad just turned 27 and Murphy 26.

That said, I don't think the pieces fit well, but Murphy is a big upgrade for Toronto. Saad is a better version of Johnsson but I don't think he fits Toronto's system well plus retaining $2M for Saad is a joke, no reason for the Hawks to retain anything or worse case $1M. Also no reason for the Hawks to retain on Murphy he's easily worth $3.8m. Hawks should run from this as well.

Jan. 13, 2020 at 11:30 p.m.

#13

ChiHawk

Joined: Apr. 2017

Posts: 18,989

Likes: 9,300

Quoting: TooMalevolent

The leafs don't trade any of their 4main guys upfront for Saad. And I rather like him, it's just not worth it with the age.

It's Saad and Murphy and together that is pretty fair value for Nylander; especially with retention. However, I don't think the Hawks should do this. Retaining $3.3M on Saad and Murphy is not necessary and a waste of cap space for two players that earn their contracts.

Jan. 14, 2020 at 12:45 a.m.

#14

MadLin27

No regretzkys

Joined: Aug. 2019

Posts: 805

Likes: 389

Quoting: ChiHawk

It's Saad and Murphy and together that is pretty fair value for Nylander; especially with retention. However, I don't think the Hawks should do this. Retaining $3.3M on Saad and Murphy is not necessary and a waste of cap space for two players that earn their contracts.

LOL. You serious man?
This would be a steal for CHI....

Saad and Murphy are not fair value for Nylander

Jan. 14, 2020 at 1:06 a.m.

#15

ChiHawk

Joined: Apr. 2017

Posts: 18,989

Likes: 9,300

Quoting: MadLin27

LOL. You serious man?
This would be a steal for CHI....

Saad and Murphy are not fair value for Nylander

Yes they are; a top line right handed defenseman and a top 6 power forward that plays both ends of the ice and one of the top 12 to 15 defensive wingers in the game today (give you a hint, take a look at takeaways and his possession numbers)? That is exactly what Toronto needs but Hawks should run from this if they are retaining $3.3M...we need both types of players as much as Tor despite Nylander being a great dynamic winger which Chicago needs also.

Chicago is better off looking for another dynamic winger and moving other players then Saad and Murphy and retaining $3.3M...bad move also for Chicago.

Jan. 14, 2020 at 1:50 a.m.

#16

MadLin27

No regretzkys

Joined: Aug. 2019

Posts: 805

Likes: 389

Quoting: ChiHawk

Yes they are; a top line right handed defenseman and a top 6 power forward that plays both ends of the ice and one of the top 12 to 15 defensive wingers in the game today (give you a hint, take a look at takeaways and his possession numbers)? That is exactly what Toronto needs but Hawks should run from this if they are retaining $3.3M...we need both types of players as much as Tor despite Nylander being a great dynamic winger which Chicago needs also.

Chicago is better off looking for another dynamic winger and moving other players then Saad and Murphy and retaining $3.3M...bad move also for Chicago.

I appreciate your justification for this trade being "pretty fair value", but a 23 year old star winger under 4+ years of control for a middle 6 forward and a fringe 2nd pairing Dman doesn't add up.
In what world is Murphy a top line defender...? And honestly Saad is barely even a top 6 winger anymore too. I have heard many Chicago fans say that.

A similar offer in reverse is: Debrincat for Hyman and Holl.
Sound good? Didn't think so.

Jan. 14, 2020 at 1:55 a.m.

#17

ChiHawk

Joined: Apr. 2017

Posts: 18,989

Likes: 9,300

Edited Jan. 14, 2020 at 2:13 a.m.

Quoting: MadLin27

I appreciate your justification for this trade being "pretty fair value", but a 23 year old star winger under 4+ years of control for a middle 6 forward and a fringe 2nd pairing Dman doesn't add up.
In what world is Murphy a top line defender...? And honestly Saad is barely even a top 6 winger anymore too. I have heard many Chicago fans say that.

A similar offer in reverse is: Debrincat for Hyman and Holl.
Sound good? Didn't think so.

Saad is not a middle 6; he plays the top line. Murphy is not a "fringe" 2nd pairing, that is insane. This tells me you don't watch the Hawks and therefore don't know what either player brings to the ice outside of what you read on a stat sheet; a big mistake a lot of folks do on here trying to evaluate players.

Murphy is a top liner in Chicago and would be in toronto. Easily would become Toronto's best defensive defender.

Where have you heard Saad is "barely' a top 6 winger? He's the best winger behind Kane this year and yes, that includes better then Cat or Toews.

I watch a fair amount of hockey outside of the Hawks, unlike most fans on here, and know what Nylander is worth. I love the guy, even when a lot of Leafs fans were down on him, but realistically no way does chicago do this and retain $3.3m that is just poor cap management while creating two holes to plug one. Toronto plugs two holes and creates a big one. Doesn't make sense for either team.

Aussie_Blackhawk liked this.

Jan. 14, 2020 at 1:42 p.m.

#18

MadLin27

No regretzkys

Joined: Aug. 2019

Posts: 805

Likes: 389

Quoting: ChiHawk

Saad is not a middle 6; he plays the top line. Murphy is not a "fringe" 2nd pairing, that is insane. This tells me you don't watch the Hawks and therefore don't know what either player brings to the ice outside of what you read on a stat sheet; a big mistake a lot of folks do on here trying to evaluate players.

Murphy is a top liner in Chicago and would be in toronto. Easily would become Toronto's best defensive defender.

Where have you heard Saad is "barely' a top 6 winger? He's the best winger behind Kane this year and yes, that includes better then Cat or Toews.

I watch a fair amount of hockey outside of the Hawks, unlike most fans on here, and know what Nylander is worth. I love the guy, even when a lot of Leafs fans were down on him, but realistically no way does chicago do this and retain $3.3m that is just poor cap management while creating two holes to plug one. Toronto plugs two holes and creates a big one. Doesn't make sense for either team.

I respectfully disagree. I don't have a link for you, but I distinctly remember reading a CHI fan on capfriendly saying something along the lines of "The more and more I watch Saad, the more and more I realize he isn't a top 6 forward."
Not saying I agree with that 100%.

Saad may play on Chi's top line, but that doesn't make him a "top line forward".

I am done with this thread, but I will sum up and give you some credit:

I would consider Saad a 2nd line winger. Not a top line guy on a competitive team however.
I'll remove the "fringe" and call Murphy a legit top 4 Dman. But again, not a top pairing Dman.

In my opinion Nylander is too much of an asset to trade for what I would call "very good accessory/supplementary pieces"
You can build a line with a Nylander. He drives his line. He actually creates plays for Matthews and Tavares, not as much vice versa. Anybody who watches the Leafs would know that.
You can't build an offense around Saad and can't build your D around Murphy.

So.. No disrespect to those Chicago players. I agree, they are good players, but I would never make that trade if I was the Leafs and I honestly believe for a soon to be rebuilding Chicago team, getting a 23 year old star forward for older, soon to be expiring contract, accessory pieces, is a no brainer. If you disagree that is fine. Its obvious we won't see eye to eye on this one

Jan. 14, 2020 at 2:40 p.m.

#19

Zwui21

Joined: May 2019

Posts: 1,304

Likes: 538

You are high on meth if you think Caggiula is worth Raddysh

Jan. 14, 2020 at 2:47 p.m.

#20

NextYearIsOurYear

Thread Starter

Joined: Mar. 2019

Posts: 10

Likes: 4

Quoting: BurgerBoss

CHI needs to add. A lot. Saad and Murphy are near 30 with only couple of years left on their contracts, Nylander's what, 23 with 5 years left. Also he's better than both of them. There's 0 incentive for TOR to even consider it.

Fair enough. Maybe I got a bit lost in the buzz around "how will Toronto win this year with all the injuries" and forgot how young the core still is. This was maybe more set up for a team who's window to win is closing in the next two years. And I thought a 27yo Saad, consistent 50ponit 2-way winger and a 26yo defensive D-man would be worth a 23yo 60-70point offensive winger in that scenario. But with how young the Leafs still are I can certainly see why you'd want to keep the younger guy with more term.

Also I don't think this is necessarily even a great move for the Hawks either. Was just thinking about possible line ups and thought I'd try to see if I could make it work cap wise and value wise in a trade.

justaBoss liked this.

Jan. 14, 2020 at 2:50 p.m.

#21

NextYearIsOurYear

Thread Starter

Joined: Mar. 2019

Posts: 10

Likes: 4

Quoting: ChiHawk

Saad is not a middle 6; he plays the top line. Murphy is not a "fringe" 2nd pairing, that is insane. This tells me you don't watch the Hawks and therefore don't know what either player brings to the ice outside of what you read on a stat sheet; a big mistake a lot of folks do on here trying to evaluate players.

Murphy is a top liner in Chicago and would be in toronto. Easily would become Toronto's best defensive defender.

Where have you heard Saad is "barely' a top 6 winger? He's the best winger behind Kane this year and yes, that includes better then Cat or Toews.

I watch a fair amount of hockey outside of the Hawks, unlike most fans on here, and know what Nylander is worth. I love the guy, even when a lot of Leafs fans were down on him, but realistically no way does chicago do this and retain $3.3m that is just poor cap management while creating two holes to plug one. Toronto plugs two holes and creates a big one. Doesn't make sense for either team.

I agree that this isn't a great trade for the Hawks. It was never meant to be a "this should happen trade". I was just an idea I had about re-uniting the Nylanders and wanted to hear opinions on the value on this. But if you want to be serious, there are other much better options for the Hawks than this, probably for the Leafs too. Maybe a true lose-lose trade then, lol.

ChiHawk liked this.

Jan. 14, 2020 at 2:56 p.m.

#22

NextYearIsOurYear

Thread Starter

Joined: Mar. 2019

Posts: 10

Likes: 4

Quoting: MadLin27

I respectfully disagree. I don't have a link for you, but I distinctly remember reading a CHI fan on capfriendly saying something along the lines of "The more and more I watch Saad, the more and more I realize he isn't a top 6 forward."
Not saying I agree with that 100%.

Saad may play on Chi's top line, but that doesn't make him a "top line forward".

I am done with this thread, but I will sum up and give you some credit:

I would consider Saad a 2nd line winger. Not a top line guy on a competitive team however.
I'll remove the "fringe" and call Murphy a legit top 4 Dman. But again, not a top pairing Dman.

In my opinion Nylander is too much of an asset to trade for what I would call "very good accessory/supplementary pieces"
You can build a line with a Nylander. He drives his line. He actually creates plays for Matthews and Tavares, not as much vice versa. Anybody who watches the Leafs would know that.
You can't build an offense around Saad and can't build your D around Murphy.

So.. No disrespect to those Chicago players. I agree, they are good players, but I would never make that trade if I was the Leafs and I honestly believe for a soon to be rebuilding Chicago team, getting a 23 year old star forward for older, soon to be expiring contract, accessory pieces, is a no brainer. If you disagree that is fine. Its obvious we won't see eye to eye on this one

I can see both sides to this. I never meant it as a serious "this should happen" trade, was mostly just for fun to see if this was enough value to get him. It doesn't make sense for the Hawks to give up players who fills roles that they need and retain that much salary either. And like I said in an earlier reply I got lost in the win now buzz around Toronto to forget how young their core still is. Their window isn't closing in two years anyway so they have no need to do this.

Also thinking about it how both Nylanders are mostly playmakers, using them around a center that's not a sniper might work against the Hawks too.

Jan. 14, 2020 at 3:01 p.m.

#23

NextYearIsOurYear

Thread Starter

Joined: Mar. 2019

Posts: 10

Likes: 4

Quoting: Zwui21

You are high on meth if you think Caggiula is worth Raddysh

Like I said in the description I didn't even bother trying with that trade, as I have no idea what his value actually is (I know that it isn't this). I wanted to re-unite the Otters so I just took a roster player and added Raddysh. It was never meant to be that return it was just a roster player who happened to be there.

Zwui21 liked this.

Jan. 14, 2020 at 3:03 p.m.

#24

NextYearIsOurYear

Thread Starter

Joined: Mar. 2019

Posts: 10

Likes: 4

Quoting: MikeyThePensFan

Honestly if the Leafs part ways with one of their top forwards, I think it’s going to be Marner. Matthews & Tavares are both franchise centers and are simply untouchable. Nylander’s on an excellent contract which makes him much more valuable than Marner. Marner for Saad & Murphy woultd probably be fair. Hawks may need to add a 2nd Round pick.

Really? That's interesting. Had no idea Marner was more expendable than Nylander for the Leafs.

Jan. 14, 2020 at 3:04 p.m.

#25

mondo

torontos finest

Joined: Jul. 2019

Posts: 9,558

Likes: 11,188

Quoting: NextYearIsOurYear

Really? That's interesting. Had no idea Marner was more expendable than Nylander for the Leafs.

He's not.

MadLin27 liked this.

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