SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Armchair-GM

Reasonable D help Today and Tomorrow

Created by: Boomer125
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Jan. 15, 2020
Published: Jan. 15, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Would have to be very Confident you could move out Ceci prior to the deadline - or they'd have to move Johansson for picks
Trades
LAK
  1. Bracco, Jeremy
  2. Harpur, Ben
  3. 2020 3rd round pick (CBJ)
  4. 2021 2nd round pick (TOR)
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the COL
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the STL
Logo of the WPG
2021
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2022
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
21$81,500,000$86,175,477$0$202,500-$4,675,477
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,634,000$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$10,893,000$10,893,000
RW
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,400,000$3,400,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, C, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,200,000$3,200,000
RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$694,444$694,444 (Performance Bonus$70,000$70K)
LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$675,000$675,000
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
C, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$759,167$759,167 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
C
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$863,333$863,333
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,750,000$2,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
$4,000,000$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$675,000$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$894,167$894,167
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,500,000$4,500,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,000,000$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,250,000$5,250,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,300,000$5,300,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$775,000$775,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2

Embed Code

  • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
  • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

Text-Embed

Click to Highlight
Jan. 15, 2020 at 6:40 p.m.
#1
Watches no games
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2017
Posts: 3,268
Likes: 976
Finally a trade where the Bracco + 2nd package could work. You're not a real Leafs fan, are you?
Jan. 15, 2020 at 6:51 p.m.
#2
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 14,449
Likes: 6,101
If you offered that package, the Kings would take back Ceci.
truculence67 and Liamthepro liked this.
Jan. 15, 2020 at 7:15 p.m.
#3
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2017
Posts: 244
Likes: 64
I like the concept for sure, well done.
But, this is giving up a lot for Martinez no?
I really like not renting, and having him for $4M next year. It worked well with Muzzin, who rightly yielded a larger return for LAK. Martinez represents a difference making addition to the team, and brings flexibility. But I think it gets done for less if Dubas really wants to go this route.
What about a 6th instead of that 3rd? Leafs have so many late round picks, it could be two 6ths!
Jan. 15, 2020 at 7:16 p.m.
#4
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2017
Posts: 244
Likes: 64
Quoting: tkecanuck341
If you offered that package, the Kings would take back Ceci.


I think Ceci is worth something to someone. Expiring $4.5 million, but a big physical depth Dman for some playoff bound team...
Jan. 15, 2020 at 7:22 p.m.
#5
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 14,449
Likes: 6,101
Quoting: Liamthepro
I like the concept for sure, well done.
But, this is giving up a lot for Martinez no?
I really like not renting, and having him for $4M next year. It worked well with Muzzin, who rightly yielded a larger return for LAK. Martinez represents a difference making addition to the team, and brings flexibility. But I think it gets done for less if Dubas really wants to go this route.
What about a 6th instead of that 3rd? Leafs have so many late round picks, it could be two 6ths!


Honestly, from a Kings perspective, you could probably just leave off that second draft pick entirely.
Liamthepro liked this.
Jan. 15, 2020 at 7:48 p.m.
#6
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Martinez may not be better than Ceci. This seems like a lateral move in a big way
Jan. 15, 2020 at 7:53 p.m.
#7
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2019
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 1,640
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Martinez may not be better than Ceci. This seems like a lateral move in a big way


He is definitely not worse than Ceci and I haven't moved Ceci as of yet, Martinez plays both sides is experienced and Leafs at full health Martinez is probably a safer RD with Rielly than Barrie is. At full health Leafs would need to move Ceci to make room or move Johansson pending Soups status
Liamthepro liked this.
Jan. 15, 2020 at 7:57 p.m.
#8
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2019
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 1,640
Quoting: MelonVK
Finally a trade where the Bracco + 2nd package could work. You're not a real Leafs fan, are you?


I am a Leafs fan, I just understand what Bracco is worth. He's a fine player, great O stats in the minors, has a better shot at being an NHLer than a 4th rnd pick and later, Leafs develope well and teams know that.
Liamthepro liked this.
Jan. 15, 2020 at 8:09 p.m.
#9
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2017
Posts: 244
Likes: 64
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Martinez may not be better than Ceci. This seems like a lateral move in a big way

Wow I'm surprised to hear you say that. Martinez seems solid from my angle. You aren't a fan? What does he look like in advanced stats I wonder, maybe I'm too high on him.
Quoting: Boomer125
I am a Leafs fan, I just understand what Bracco is worth. He's a fine player, great O stats in the minors, has a better shot at being an NHLer than a 4th rnd pick and later, Leafs develope well and teams know that.


They sure have developed guys well, every game I see another 7th rounder now in the NHL, undrafted guys filling roles, further ECHL reclamation project getting resigned as a potential contributor going forward, etc.
Quoting: MelonVK
Finally a trade where the Bracco + 2nd package could work. You're not a real Leafs fan, are you?


I don't get it. This is a 2nd and 3rd. Not nearly the same as just Bracco and a 2nd. Especially since Leafs have traded away their upcoming 1st...
It is just too much this way you know?
Jan. 15, 2020 at 8:50 p.m.
#10
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: Boomer125
He is definitely not worse than Ceci and I haven't moved Ceci as of yet, Martinez plays both sides is experienced and Leafs at full health Martinez is probably a safer RD with Rielly than Barrie is. At full health Leafs would need to move Ceci to make room or move Johansson pending Soups status


Safer but I am not sure better. Barrie and Rielly tilted the ice in their favour a lot. Martinez doesn't
Jan. 15, 2020 at 8:51 p.m.
#11
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: Liamthepro
Wow I'm surprised to hear you say that. Martinez seems solid from my angle. You aren't a fan? What does he look like in advanced stats I wonder, maybe I'm too high on him.


They sure have developed guys well, every game I see another 7th rounder now in the NHL, undrafted guys filling roles, further ECHL reclamation project getting resigned as a potential contributor going forward, etc.


I don't get it. This is a 2nd and 3rd. Not nearly the same as just Bracco and a 2nd. Especially since Leafs have traded away their upcoming 1st...
It is just too much this way you know?


Last I heard or Saw, he really wasn't good advanced stats wise.
Jan. 15, 2020 at 9:11 p.m.
#12
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 14,449
Likes: 6,101
Quoting: Liamthepro
Wow I'm surprised to hear you say that. Martinez seems solid from my angle. You aren't a fan? What does he look like in advanced stats I wonder, maybe I'm too high on him.


Martinez is very solid defensively, he's just not the offensive force that he used to be. He's still good in the defensive zone, and is a shot blocking and penalty killing machine. Just don't expect him to put up a ton of points. He'd still look very good on Muzzin's right side.
Jan. 15, 2020 at 9:17 p.m.
#13
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2019
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 1,640
Quoting: tkecanuck341
Martinez is very solid defensively, he's just not the offensive force that he used to be. He's still good in the defensive zone, and is a shot blocking and penalty killing machine. Just don't expect him to put up a ton of points. He'd still look very good on Muzzin's right side.


So basically a Dman that plays consistently stable defense, no reason to bring in more offence on the blue line
Jan. 15, 2020 at 9:21 p.m.
#14
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2019
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 1,640
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Safer but I am not sure better. Barrie and Rielly tilted the ice in their favour a lot. Martinez doesn't


He's good in the D zone, good in front of the net, good in the corners, yes offence has dropped off, more offence from the back end is not required
Jan. 15, 2020 at 9:22 p.m.
#15
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: Boomer125
He's good in the D zone, good in front of the net, good in the corners, yes offence has dropped off, more offence from the back end is not required


I think plugs that "just stand in the right place" aren't needed either. He's slow and I don't think offers much of anything on his own. This is just a "he won a cup and someone mentioned him so he must be good" type of thing.b
Jan. 15, 2020 at 10:00 p.m.
#16
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 14,449
Likes: 6,101
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
I think plugs that "just stand in the right place" aren't needed either. He's slow and I don't think offers much of anything on his own. This is just a "he won a cup and someone mentioned him so he must be good" type of thing.b


As someone who has watched just about every NHL game that Martinez has ever played in, I can attest that he is not just a "plug" that "stands in the right place." Martinez is a very active defenseman in his own zone. He is also quite good at making the first pass out of the zone on the breakout to transition from defense to offense. He used to be the guy that carried the puck out of the zone himself, but with the emergence of Sean Walker as a mobile defenseman, he's not really needed for that role anymore. The departure of solid defensive guys like Muzzin, McNabb, and Regehr, as well as the long term injury to Derek Forbort left the Kings without that stable veteran presence on defense behind Doughty, so Martinez stepped up and filled that role.

Martinez would be a decent #4 or quality #5 defenseman on a contending team. He can play top PK minutes, and even fill in on the 2nd power play unit if necessary. If you're looking for him to be your #2 or #3 guy, then your team probably has defensive problems that Martinez can't fix. He's definitely an upgrade over a guy like Ceci, or frankly most bottom pairing guys in the league.
Liamthepro liked this.
Jan. 15, 2020 at 11:31 p.m.
#17
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: tkecanuck341
As someone who has watched just about every NHL game that Martinez has ever played in, I can attest that he is not just a "plug" that "stands in the right place." Martinez is a very active defenseman in his own zone. He is also quite good at making the first pass out of the zone on the breakout to transition from defense to offense. He used to be the guy that carried the puck out of the zone himself, but with the emergence of Sean Walker as a mobile defenseman, he's not really needed for that role anymore. The departure of solid defensive guys like Muzzin, McNabb, and Regehr, as well as the long term injury to Derek Forbort left the Kings without that stable veteran presence on defense behind Doughty, so Martinez stepped up and filled that role.

Martinez would be a decent #4 or quality #5 defenseman on a contending team. He can play top PK minutes, and even fill in on the 2nd power play unit if necessary. If you're looking for him to be your #2 or #3 guy, then your team probably has defensive problems that Martinez can't fix. He's definitely an upgrade over a guy like Ceci, or frankly most bottom pairing guys in the league.


That's kind of what I figured. Which is why I am probably wouldn't commit big assets to him. I know Ceci isn't the best, but he's also not the worst, which is why I think moving important assets for a guy who isn't a huge upgrade for the team. You know what I mean? Honestly, I'd prefer to see what Liljegren can do before making any moves. I actually see him being someone who could really make an impression. His best attribute right now is his defensive game although he's come on big offensively this year too. If he's better than Ceci, then he makes the team and Ceci sits. That's way cheaper than adding anyone.
Liamthepro liked this.
Jan. 15, 2020 at 11:36 p.m.
#18
Watches no games
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2017
Posts: 3,268
Likes: 976
Quoting: Liamthepro
Wow I'm surprised to hear you say that. Martinez seems solid from my angle. You aren't a fan? What does he look like in advanced stats I wonder, maybe I'm too high on him.


They sure have developed guys well, every game I see another 7th rounder now in the NHL, undrafted guys filling roles, further ECHL reclamation project getting resigned as a potential contributor going forward, etc.


I don't get it. This is a 2nd and 3rd. Not nearly the same as just Bracco and a 2nd. Especially since Leafs have traded away their upcoming 1st...
It is just too much this way you know?


Martinez is clearly better than Ceci, cause, well, basically everyone is. I said Bracco + second intentionally, cause I believe that's probably enough. At some point though teams won't accept more assets, and just want fewer, better ones. Luckily for the Leafs I don't think the Kings are there yet.
Liamthepro liked this.
Jan. 15, 2020 at 11:43 p.m.
#19
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2017
Posts: 244
Likes: 64
Quoting: MelonVK
Martinez is clearly better than Ceci, cause, well, basically everyone is. I said Bracco + second intentionally, cause I believe that's probably enough. At some point though teams won't accept more assets, and just want fewer, better ones. Luckily for the Leafs I don't think the Kings are there yet.


I hope so! I looked at the advanced stats, and Martinez is above 50% all day, even with slightly more d zone starts than o zone. Tkecanuck says he had watched him lots and says he is good, above average at most things. I'll go with that. Bring him in!
I agree with pleasebanme about Lilly, but this year and next I think veterans can really do something extra for the leafs. If they are good vets on reasonable contracts of course!
Jan. 15, 2020 at 11:46 p.m.
#20
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2017
Posts: 244
Likes: 64
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
I think plugs that "just stand in the right place" aren't needed either. He's slow and I don't think offers much of anything on his own. This is just a "he won a cup and someone mentioned him so he must be good" type of thing.b


I'm glad this got shot down by someone who knows.
Also, these are not major assets at play. Bracco is never gonna help TML, he needs to bring value our way through trade. And we have this glaring need for defensive dmen...
Jan. 15, 2020 at 11:55 p.m.
#21
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: Liamthepro
I'm glad this got shot down by someone who knows.
Also, these are not major assets at play. Bracco is never gonna help TML, he needs to bring value our way through trade. And we have this glaring need for defensive dmen...


I just think that what Bracco or the 2nd can potentially become may be worth more than the difference between Martinez and Ceci, which is what we are trying to upgrade here.
Liamthepro liked this.
Jan. 16, 2020 at 12:13 a.m.
#22
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2017
Posts: 244
Likes: 64
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
I just think that what Bracco or the 2nd can potentially become may be worth more than the difference between Martinez and Ceci, which is what we are trying to upgrade here.


I'm glad you switched it up to say it like this now. Still think it is worth the risk, but I see your point for sure. You just have to try to upgrade in these next two years. Leafs are loaded up with wing depth, you have to do something and deal from strength if you can
Jan. 16, 2020 at 12:26 a.m.
#23
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: Liamthepro
I'm glad you switched it up to say it like this now. Still think it is worth the risk, but I see your point for sure. You just have to try to upgrade in these next two years. Leafs are loaded up with wing depth, you have to do something and deal from strength if you can


Sure, when it makes sense but for this, I'd rather audition Liljegren for a bit first before moving these futures for a not significant upgrade over Ceci. Maybe he's a big upgrade over Ceci.
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Submit Poll