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Leafs interesting debate

Created by: ChiHawk
Team: 2019-20 Chicago Blackhawks
Initial Creation Date: Jan. 19, 2020
Published: Jan. 19, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
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This has got to be pretty interested in terms of value. Cat has more value then Nylander, Johnsson has more value then Crow but neither are that far off from one another. Cat's contract is $500K cheaper then Nylander's kicking in next year but less term. Interesting debate...
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2020
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$61,580,719$0$7,845,000$19,919,281
Left WingCentreRight Wing
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$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
LW, RW
UFA - 1
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$10,500,000$10,500,000
C
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$2,625,000$2,625,000
RW
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$3,400,000$3,400,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
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$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$2,475,000$2M)
C
UFA - 1
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$5,000,000$5,000,000
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UFA - 2
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$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RW, LW
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$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$2,500,000$2M)
C, RW
RFA - 3
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$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
UFA - 5
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$1,500,000$1,500,000
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UFA - 1
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$1,000,000$1,000,000
RW, C
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C
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$5,538,462$5,538,462
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$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RD
RFA - 3
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$1,400,000$1,400,000
G
UFA - 1
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$1,200,000$1,200,000
LD
UFA - 1
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$3,850,000$3,850,000
RD
UFA - 3
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$3,333,225$3,333,225
LD
UFA - 3
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$925,000$925,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
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$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$212,500$212K)
G
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ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
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$925,000$925,000
LD
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$4,550,000$4,550,000
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$3,250,000$3,250,000
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M-NTC
UFA - 2
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$6,875,000$6,875,000
RD
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UFA - 5
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$775,833$775,833 (Performance Bonus$107,500$108K)
LW, RW
UFA - 1
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$3,900,000$3,900,000
C, RW
UFA - 3

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Jan. 19, 2020 at 3:31 p.m.
#1
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popcorn
Jan. 19, 2020 at 3:34 p.m.
#2
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
popcorn


. Lol.
Jan. 19, 2020 at 3:36 p.m.
#3
GM Hockeysaurus Rex
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DeBrincat is making 6.4 on a bridge deal. Nylander would still be making 6.9 in 4.5 years.. also Nylander is better imo, but its really close. I love DeCat. But imo Johnsson for Crow is not fair deal. Id do like 3rd for Crow.
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Jan. 19, 2020 at 3:37 p.m.
#4
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Leafs decline. They decline if you remove Johnsson. Lol. It’s cute you think Debrincat has more value than Willy. Dumb...but cute. Maybe you meant his brother? ??‍♂️
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Jan. 19, 2020 at 3:42 p.m.
#5
DaBus
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Quoting: SammyT_51
DeBrincat is making 6.4 on a bridge deal. Nylander would still be making 6.9 in 4.5 years.. also Nylander is better imo, but its really close. I love DeCat. But imo Johnsson for Crow is not fair deal. Id do like 3rd for Crow.


For Crow and 1/2 his salary the Hawks should be able to land a 2nd rounder
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Jan. 19, 2020 at 3:42 p.m.
#6
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It is interesting but really accomplished very little for either team
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Jan. 19, 2020 at 3:44 p.m.
#7
Formerly Jamiepo
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Quoting: Gofnut999
Leafs decline. They decline if you remove Johnsson. Lol. It’s cute you think Debrincat has more value than Willy. Dumb...but cute. Maybe you meant his brother? ??‍♂️


These are the type of people who look at basic stats and don’t realize how much nylander generates.
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Jan. 19, 2020 at 4:09 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: Jamiepo
These are the type of people who look at basic stats and don’t realize how much nylander generates.


"These are the type of people who look at basic stats"....I hardly am "these type of people" and would argue on the other hand you are doing the same in regards to Debrincat if you don't think they are relatively close in value to one another.
Jan. 19, 2020 at 4:11 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: Gofnut999
Leafs decline. They decline if you remove Johnsson. Lol. It’s cute you think Debrincat has more value than Willy. Dumb...but cute. Maybe you meant his brother? ??‍♂️


Explain how Debrincat is only worth Alex Nylander; this I'm REALLY interested in hearing. While you're at it, explain why Nylander is so much more valuable then Debrincat that you would suggest it would take Crow (worth a 2nd) and Debrincat and you still decline. I think your comment is "cute"....ignorant but nonetheless "cute".
Jan. 19, 2020 at 4:28 p.m.
#10
Formerly Jamiepo
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Quoting: ChiHawk
"These are the type of people who look at basic stats"....I hardly am "these type of people" and would argue on the other hand you are doing the same in regards to Debrincat if you don't think they are relatively close in value to one another.


Nylander is a core player and controls pace of play when he’s on the ice. His hockey IQ is off the charts. His possession metrics are off the charts and he dominates most advanced stats.

Nylander and DeBrincat when considering points is close. When you watch what Nylander does on the ice and how he is still growing it makes no sense for the leafs.
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Jan. 19, 2020 at 4:30 p.m.
#11
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Edited Jan. 19, 2020 at 5:18 p.m.
Quoting: Boomer125
It is interesting but really accomplished very little for either team


Agreed or for the most part. however, it does net Toronto a goalie and obviously that is a huge need and alternatively nets Chicago a middle 6 winger in Johnsson although one might argue Chicago doesn’t have that big of a need for another middle 6 guy.
Jan. 19, 2020 at 4:50 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Explain how Debrincat is only worth Alex Nylander; this I'm REALLY interested in hearing. While you're at it, explain why Nylander is so much more valuable then Debrincat that you would suggest it would take Crow (worth a 2nd) and Debrincat and you still decline. I think your comment is "cute"....ignorant but nonetheless "cute".


Just another drooling fanboy “oh, he plays for my team so he’s better” comment.

31 real life GMs disagree. They’d all take Willy over DeBrincat. So...there’s that. ?
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Jan. 19, 2020 at 4:57 p.m.
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Quoting: Gofnut999
Just another drooling fanboy “oh, he plays for my team so he’s better” comment.

31 real life GMs disagree. They’d all take Willy over DeBrincat. So...there’s that. ?


Albeit all from the Leafs but you. Add something of value instead of making snipe comments...start there.
Jan. 19, 2020 at 5:05 p.m.
#14
V5 ANA and BOG
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Agreed or the most part but does net Toronto a goalie and obviously that is a huge need and alternatively nets Chicago a middle 6 winger in Johnsson although one might argue Chicago doesn’t have that big of a need for another middle 6 guy.


Crawford isn't a huge need. They're fine with Andersen, as bad as this slump has been, I think every Leafs fan knows that he'll come around. They're better off giving up a prospect and a pick for Georgiev.

I think Nylander is a better player than Debrincat by a bit. Certainly a better player for a possession team, the way he can take over shifts and make nice plays to get pucks into dangerous positions. Leafs won't part with him, especially not if they're just getting another forward. If he's being traded, it's for an impact defenceman.
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Jan. 19, 2020 at 5:06 p.m.
#15
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Albeit all from the Leafs but you. Add something of value instead of making snipe comments...start there.


You are a Homer, always have been. Like 95% of the people on here are. And it’s OK. It’s annoying AF. But ok. It’s what being a fan is about.

The 29 fan bases that don’t have a dog in this fight will tell you what you don’t want to hear. Willy. The one that won’t is the Hawks. And that is to be expected. There will even be some fans from other teams that pick Cat. They are not far off in value after all. Some will see it your way for whatever reason. But reality is. Willy over Debrincat. Just is man.
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Jan. 19, 2020 at 5:14 p.m.
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Quoting: Jamiepo
Nylander is a core player and controls pace of play when he’s on the ice. His hockey IQ is off the charts. His possession metrics are off the charts and he dominates most advanced stats.

Nylander and DeBrincat when considering points is close. When you watch what Nylander does on the ice and how he is still growing it makes no sense for the leafs.


Nylander - age 23; turning 24 in May
Games Played in the NHL: 288
PPG: .71
GPG: .27
CF: 54%
Giveaways: 150 (.52 giveaways per game)
Takeaways: 203 (.70 takeaways per game)

Debrincat - age 22; last month
Games Played in the NHL: 213
PPG: .76
GPG: .38
CF: 51.6%
Giveaways: 106 (.50 giveaways per game)
Takeaways: 114 (.54 takeaways per game)

Pretty much what I thought. Nylander is 18 months older and has 4 1/2 seasons under his belt. He's better defensively as noticeable by more takeaways. He drives slightly better possession. They bough cough up the puck as much (cat slightly less). When it comes to scoring, Cat puts up slightly more points but definitely more goals.

Now, given how close they are albeit different types of players, I think it's pretty important to understand who they play next to. Pretty sure Matthews and Tavares are far superior centermen then Strome.

Point is, to brush this off and suggest Nylander is a far better player then Cat is comical at best.
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Jan. 19, 2020 at 5:17 p.m.
#17
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Edited Jan. 19, 2020 at 8:30 p.m.
Quoting: Gofnut999
You are a Homer, always have been. Like 95% of the people on here are. And it’s OK. It’s annoying AF. But ok. It’s what being a fan is about.

The 29 fan bases that don’t have a dog in this fight will tell you what you don’t want to hear. Willy. The one that won’t is the Hawks. And that is to be expected. There will even be some fans from other teams that pick Cat. They are not far off in value after all. Some will see it your way for whatever reason. But reality is. Willy over Debrincat. Just is man.


See my response right above. You have an opinion like everyone else, and it's only that, an opinion. Objectively, they are very close to one another and you can flip flop either way...that was the point of the post to have a interesting debate around the value of the two not for people to make snipe comments and Leafs fans to all say "it's not close nylander" or for guys like you to call me or anyone "a homer" you're doing exactly what 90% of people on here do instead of trying to be objective and have an interesting discussion around it; annoying AF are your comments instead of objectively providing a reason for one way or the other.
Jan. 19, 2020 at 5:21 p.m.
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Quoting: NR1203
Crawford isn't a huge need. They're fine with Andersen, as bad as this slump has been, I think every Leafs fan knows that he'll come around. They're better off giving up a prospect and a pick for Georgiev.

I think Nylander is a better player than Debrincat by a bit. Certainly a better player for a possession team, the way he can take over shifts and make nice plays to get pucks into dangerous positions. Leafs won't part with him, especially not if they're just getting another forward. If he's being traded, it's for an impact defenceman.


I think Andersen is showing exactly why the Leafs are in trouble. If this slump continues or moreso going into the playoffs (if they make it) they are dead in the water with another first round exit. They need a backup and Crow is obviously a proven asset able to stand on his head in high pressure games. Goalies I'd argue are the most critical piece in any cup team. Look at every cup winner in recent years; 80% had a goalie playing lights out.

That said, totally get what you're saying around possession with Nylander and agree on that point. It's really a debate around whether you want a better possession guy or goal scorer. Objectively otherwise both players are very close. One side of the argument is what you stated because the Leafs already score enough goals and that does indeed make a ton of sense.
Jan. 19, 2020 at 5:47 p.m.
#19
hey look a squirrel
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Leafs reject, also heard Crawford wants to stay in Chicago as a starter
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Jan. 19, 2020 at 5:53 p.m.
#20
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DeBrincat is the only interesting part here coming from Chicago and if giving up Nylander is the cost I'd rather pass on that.
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Jan. 19, 2020 at 5:58 p.m.
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Agreed or for the most part. however, it does net Toronto a goalie and obviously that is a huge need and alternatively nets Chicago a middle 6 winger in Johnsson although one might argue Chicago doesn’t have that big of a need for another middle 6 guy.


You are more positive about Crawford than most Leafs fans will be and that's fine...whatever, retention or not, people who watch the Leafs regularly know Andersen will come out of this slump. It's not the end of the world.

Leafs can solve backup issues by trading prospects and picks. Don't need Crawford with retention, it's a waste of assets.
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Jan. 19, 2020 at 6:23 p.m.
#22
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Im happy with the Cat, he is part of the future. 40 goals in a season albeit done once is not particularly common unless you are in a particular echelon of players so very happy with that and with the draft this year we should be able to get a winger in who can help contribute in the next couple of years. Our EURO scouting has a good track record of finding players also. This could help compliment that though I think we should look to try and trade Crow. I do think he would benefit TOR and though most of their fanbase does not. I think Dubas would be looking at the goalie situation and Crow could help project them deeper in the playoffs then an inexperienced Georgiev.
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Jan. 19, 2020 at 8:32 p.m.
#23
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Quoting: oneX
DeBrincat is the only interesting part here coming from Chicago and if giving up Nylander is the cost I'd rather pass on that.


And Nylander is the only interesting part really coming to Chicago. Remove Johnsson and Crow then. I think most teams would go either way on whether to grab Cat or Nylander.
Jan. 19, 2020 at 8:35 p.m.
#24
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Quoting: ChiHawk
And Nylander is the only interesting part really coming to Chicago. Remove Johnsson and Crow then. I think most teams would go either way on whether to grab Cat or Nylander.


How about we forget this ACGM ever happened. That way everyone is happy.
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Jan. 19, 2020 at 8:38 p.m.
#25
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Quoting: oneX
You are more positive about Crawford than most Leafs fans will be and that's fine...whatever, retention or not, people who watch the Leafs regularly know Andersen will come out of this slump. It's not the end of the world.

Leafs can solve backup issues by trading prospects and picks. Don't need Crawford with retention, it's a waste of assets.


As I noted in another comment here, there is no doubt Andersen is in a very bad slump; most goalies get in a slump but Andersen is the 28th ranked goalie in SV% (Crow 27th), point being if the Leafs are trying to make a run, they need a better goalie tandam. Georgiev would be a good long term target but only 65 games played in his young career. Crow has more playoff experience and two rings which means a lot more in the playoffs then what most fans realize; not too shabby for a backup for a team that wants to make a run.

Regardless, I doubt Crow waives for anywhere other then MTL.
 
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