Forums/Armchair-GM

Bruins All in with Kreider

Initial Creation Date: Jan 21, 2020
Published: Jan 21 at 3:33 pm
Team: 2019-20 Boston Bruins
Trades
BOS
  1. 2020 7th round pick (CBJ)
CBJ
  1. Moore, John
BOS
  1. Kreider, Chris
NYR
  1. Shen, Pavel
  2. 2020 1st round pick (BOS)
  3. 2021 3rd round pick (BOS)
Additional Details:
- 3rd Rounder Transfers if Kreider Re-Signs, becomes 2nd if Bruins Win Stanley Cup and Re-Sign Kreider.
Buyouts
  • Dennis Seidenberg: $1,166,667
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Matt Beleskey: $1,900,000 (50%)
  • David Backes: $1,500,000 (25%)
Buried
  • David Backes: $3,425,000 ($4,500,000)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2020
BOS
BOS
BOS
BOS
BOS
CBJ
2021
BOS
BOS
BOS
BOS
BOS
BOS
2022
BOS
BOS
BOS
BOS
BOS
BOS
BOS
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
21$81,500,000$78,371,666$0$2,432,500$3,128,334
Left WingCenterRight Wing
BOS
Marchand, Brad
$6,125,000
LW
NMC
UFA - 6
BOS
Bergeron, Patrice
$6,875,000
C
NMC
UFA - 3
BOS
Pastrnak, David
$6,666,666
RW
UFA - 4
NYR
Kreider, Chris
$4,625,000
LW
NTC
UFA - 1
BOS
Krejci, David
$7,250,000
C
NTC
UFA - 2
BOS
Heinen, Danton
$2,800,000
C, LW, RW
RFA - 2
BOS
DeBrusk, Jake
$863,333
LW
RFA - 1
BOS
Coyle, Charlie
$3,200,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
BOS
Wagner, Chris
$1,250,000
RW, C
UFA - 1
BOS
Lindholm, Pär
$850,000
LW, C
UFA - 2
BOS
Kuraly, Sean
$1,275,000
C, LW
UFA - 2
BOS
Bjork, Anders
$925,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
BOS
Krug, Torey
$5,250,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 1
BOS
McAvoy, Charlie
$4,900,000
RD
RFA - 3
BOS
Rask, Tuukka
$7,000,000
G
NTC
UFA - 2
BOS
Chara, Zdeno
$2,000,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 1
BOS
Carlo, Brandon
$2,850,000
RD
RFA - 2
BOS
Halák, Jaroslav
$2,750,000
G
UFA - 1
BOS
Grzelcyk, Matt
$1,400,000
LD
RFA - 1
BOS
Clifton, Connor
$725,000
RD
UFA - 1
BOS
Kampfer, Steven
$800,000
RD
UFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
BOS
Miller, Kevan
$2,500,000
RD
UFA - 1

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Jan 21 at 3:38
#1
Let's Go Rangers!
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,655
Likes: 367
Is Shen a good prospect?
Jan 21 at 3:43
#2
Silkysmooth
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 851
Likes: 157
Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
Is Shen a good prospect?


Yeah. He was another late pick that the bruins have begun to develop well. Not great, but along with a 1st and the Conditional 3rd it is actually a very good deal for both sides
Jan 21 at 3:43
#3
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,212
Likes: 334
Sorry, but I can't see the Rangers getting excited about a 7th-round "prospect", a pick in the 26-31 range, and another low-percentage pick if Kreider re-signs in Boston. If Kreider is willing to accept a move to his hometown, he would likely agree to negotiate before the trade is made (it helps both his former boss and his new boss). At that point, the deal would be a roster player, a prospect and a high pick. If he's not willing to talk about an extension until after the season, the Rangers can probably still get a higher pick somewhere else.

The last Bruins 7th-rounder to play a game in the NHL was Zach Trotman, and he was drafted in 2010. It's not impossible that Shen would buck the trend, but I wouldn't bet my one chance to trade Kreider on it.
Jan 21 at 3:43
#4
Silkysmooth
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 851
Likes: 157
Good trade!
Moore isnt a dump, he is worth a 4th or late 3rd so just fix that and its good
Jan 21 at 3:44
#5
Silkysmooth
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 851
Likes: 157
Quoting: HabsRafiki
Sorry, but I can't see the Rangers getting excited about a 7th-round "prospect", a pick in the 26-31 range, and another low-percentage pick if Kreider re-signs in Boston. If Kreider is willing to accept a move to his hometown, he would likely agree to negotiate before the trade is made (it helps both his former boss and his new boss). At that point, the deal would be a roster player, a prospect and a high pick. If he's not willing to talk about an extension until after the season, the Rangers can probably still get a higher pick somewhere else.


Bruins are very good at finding, picking, and developing late round picks.
Yes he was a 7th, but like Sami Niku he is developing really well.
The first roudner is low, but it is a rental. So if he resigns, the 3rd makes it even. and if the bruins win, the 2nd makes it more than fair!
Jan 21 at 3:46
#6
Skeating_sec224
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 390
Likes: 42
Make it John Beecher & im in!
You can even keep the CUP conditions out & just make it a 2021 3rd.

Beecher
2020 1st
2021 3rd (If CK resigns with Boston )
Jan 21 at 3:46
#7
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 7,185
Likes: 1,646
Quoting: HabsRafiki
Sorry, but I can't see the Rangers getting excited about a 7th-round "prospect", a pick in the 26-31 range, and another low-percentage pick if Kreider re-signs in Boston. If Kreider is willing to accept a move to his hometown, he would likely agree to negotiate before the trade is made (it helps both his former boss and his new boss). At that point, the deal would be a roster player, a prospect and a high pick. If he's not willing to talk about an extension until after the season, the Rangers can probably still get a higher pick somewhere else.


I keep seeing this from Rangers fans. What's it based on? Kreider is hardly an elite player to command such a ransom.
Jan 21 at 3:46
#8
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,212
Likes: 334
Quoting: bsilk18
Bruins are very good at finding, picking, and developing late round picks.
Yes he was a 7th, but like Sami Niku he is developing really well.
The first roudner is low, but it is a rental. So if he resigns, the 3rd makes it even. and if the bruins win, the 2nd makes it more than fair!


I wrote this in above after initially posting.

The last Bruins 7th-rounder to play a game in the NHL was Zach Trotman, and he was drafted in 2010. It's not impossible that Shen would buck the trend, but I wouldn't bet my one chance to trade Kreider on it.
Jan 21 at 3:50
#9
Thread Starter
Leafs Suck
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,217
Likes: 198
Quoting: HabsRafiki
I wrote this in above after initially posting.

The last Bruins 7th-rounder to play a game in the NHL was Zach Trotman, and he was drafted in 2010. It's not impossible that Shen would buck the trend, but I wouldn't bet my one chance to trade Kreider on it.


Iv'e Seen Shen play personally, he has good chemistry with our #9 pick Vitali Kravstov which could be good for our AHL team and him as he would be more comfortable developing and having chemistry with a fellow russian forward he played well with in the 2019 WJ's. I don't really like any of Boston's young NHL forwards other than DeBrusk but he's not really getting dealt here so just take the first and a chance at shen.
Jan 21 at 3:50
#10
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,827
Likes: 1,001
The Moore trade is probably to anyone for anything they can get back, but Columbus isn’t taking that trade. We have plenty of LHD who can play on the bottom pair and we need that cap room next year. So unless Boston is willing to pay us to make him go away, we aren’t interested.
Jan 21 at 3:51
#11
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 5,100
Likes: 1,519
Quoting: bsilk18
Bruins are very good at finding, picking, and developing late round picks.
Yes he was a 7th, but like Sami Niku he is developing really well.
The first roudner is low, but it is a rental. So if he resigns, the 3rd makes it even. and if the bruins win, the 2nd makes it more than fair!


As a Bruins fan, Shen does nothing in this deal. He's got 8pts in 30 games this year for Providence. Are you sure you're not thinking of Oskar Steen? He had a solid year in the SHL last year and made the jump to NA. He was a 6th round pick.
Jan 21 at 3:54
#12
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,212
Likes: 334
Quoting: CD282
I keep seeing this from Rangers fans. What's it based on? Kreider is hardly an elite player to command such a ransom.


Kreider is a complete player who consistently averages between 40 and 50 points a year. He's brutal to play against (ask Carey Price) and has a style that is even better suited for the playoffs than the regular season. If Kevin Hayes, a pending UFA who said he would not negotiate an extension, can net Brendan Lemieux, a first and a fourth, Kreider would fetch something similar -- especially if he is agreeing to an extension.

An even better comparison might be the Dzingel deal between Ottawa and Columbus last year. Dzingel and a 7th for Anthony Duclair and two 2nd-round picks. Again, for a rental UFA.
Jan 21 at 4:12
#13
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 7,185
Likes: 1,646
Quoting: HabsRafiki
Kreider is a complete player who consistently averages between 40 and 50 points a year. He's brutal to play against (ask Carey Price) and has a style that is even better suited for the playoffs than the regular season. If Kevin Hayes, a pending UFA who said he would not negotiate an extension, can net Brendan Lemieux, a first and a fourth, Kreider would fetch something similar -- especially if he is agreeing to an extension.

An even better comparison might be the Dzingel deal between Ottawa and Columbus last year. Dzingel and a 7th for Anthony Duclair and two 2nd-round picks. Again, for a rental UFA.


Interesting. I was thinking Nyquist (30% retained for 2nd + 3rd) and Johansson (40% retained for 2nd + 4th) would have been closer comps. In season boxcars at the time of trade (with Kreider's current numbers mixed in):

Nyquist: 62, 16-33-49 [0.79 P/GP]
Kreider: 47, 16-15-31 [0.66]
Johansson: 48, 12-15-27 [0.56]

Career boxcars:

Nyquist: 481, 125-170-295 [0.61]
Kreider: 507, 149-153-302 [0.60]
Johansson: 578, 119-212-331 [0.57]

It'll be interesting to see what the market decides on Kreider.
HabsRafiki liked this.
Jan 21 at 4:16
#14
Silkysmooth
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 851
Likes: 157
Quoting: ON3M4N
As a Bruins fan, Shen does nothing in this deal. He's got 8pts in 30 games this year for Providence. Are you sure you're not thinking of Oskar Steen? He had a solid year in the SHL last year and made the jump to NA. He was a 6th round pick.


Lol I know both of them. Oskar steen has become a top 6 potential forward. Shen, has become a bottom 6 potential player despite being a 7th rounder.
Its not much, but the 1st is a good amount for a rental (as we learned from Rick Nash last time). And if he plays well and resigns a 1st and 3rd is good for a trade
Jan 21 at 4:21
#15
Silkysmooth
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 851
Likes: 157
Quoting: CD282
Interesting. I was thinking Nyquist (30% retained for 2nd + 3rd) and Johansson (40% retained for 2nd + 4th) would have been closer comps. In season boxcars at the time of trade (with Kreider's current numbers mixed in):

Nyquist: 62, 16-33-49 [0.79 P/GP]
Kreider: 47, 16-15-31 [0.66]
Johansson: 48, 12-15-27 [0.56]

Career boxcars:

Nyquist: 481, 125-170-295 [0.61]
Kreider: 507, 149-153-302 [0.60]
Johansson: 578, 119-212-331 [0.57]

It'll be interesting to see what the market decides on Kreider.


@ON3M4N

This guy gets it. I am not over-valuing Shen, you may just be overvaluing Krieder. I like him a lot, but he is a 2nd line RENTAL...
The bruins Overpayed A LOT on Rick Nash. And other guys like Gus and MOJO all cost less.
Jan 21 at 5:27
#16
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,678
Likes: 3,022
Edited Jan 21 at 5:32
Quoting: bsilk18
Bruins are very good at finding, picking, and developing late round picks.
Yes he was a 7th, but like Sami Niku he is developing really well.
The first roudner is low, but it is a rental. So if he resigns, the 3rd makes it even. and if the bruins win, the 2nd makes it more than fair!


Spot on
Jan 21 at 5:32
#17
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,678
Likes: 3,022
Quoting: HabsRafiki
Sorry, but I can't see the Rangers getting excited about a 7th-round "prospect", a pick in the 26-31 range, and another low-percentage pick if Kreider re-signs in Boston. If Kreider is willing to accept a move to his hometown, he would likely agree to negotiate before the trade is made (it helps both his former boss and his new boss). At that point, the deal would be a roster player, a prospect and a high pick. If he's not willing to talk about an extension until after the season, the Rangers can probably still get a higher pick somewhere else.

The last Bruins 7th-rounder to play a game in the NHL was Zach Trotman, and he was drafted in 2010. It's not impossible that Shen would buck the trend, but I wouldn't bet my one chance to trade Kreider on it.


Rangers are not getting that kind of package of Kreider. This is an overpay as it is.

You can blow off Shen if you want because you don’t know him but he was captain of the Russian jr team a couple years ago. Nothing special. Has a shot at the NHL. He’s also just a throw in in the deal. Take him out It is still enough for Kreider
HabsRafiki liked this.
Jan 21 at 8:22
#18
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,212
Likes: 334
Quoting: Gofnut999
Rangers are not getting that kind of package of Kreider. This is an overpay as it is.

You can blow off Shen if you want because you don’t know him but he was captain of the Russian jr team a couple years ago. Nothing special. Has a shot at the NHL. He’s also just a throw in in the deal. Take him out It is still enough for Kreider


The problem is that there are about 29 teams out there that need Kreider more than the Bruins, so there are almost sure to be higher bidders. If it were clear that Kreider would be nothing more than a rental, the above deal would be OK. But if you're the NYR GM and you don't care about Shen, you're looking at what is quite likely to be a #30 or #31 pick for Kreider. For a rental, Chicago, Colorado, Carolina, Florida, Nashville, Tampa, Winnipeg.... all will offer something similar, only that pick is likely to be 10 spots higher.
Jan 21 at 8:24
#19
Bcarlo25
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 11,887
Likes: 3,430
Quoting: Skeating622
Make it John Beecher & im in!
You can even keep the CUP conditions out & just make it a 2021 3rd.

Beecher
2020 1st
2021 3rd (If CK resigns with Boston )


Bahaha. Who on earth do you think Kreider is?
bsilk18 liked this.
Jan 21 at 8:27
#20
Bcarlo25
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 11,887
Likes: 3,430
Quoting: HabsRafiki
Sorry, but I can't see the Rangers getting excited about a 7th-round "prospect", a pick in the 26-31 range, and another low-percentage pick if Kreider re-signs in Boston. If Kreider is willing to accept a move to his hometown, he would likely agree to negotiate before the trade is made (it helps both his former boss and his new boss). At that point, the deal would be a roster player, a prospect and a high pick. If he's not willing to talk about an extension until after the season, the Rangers can probably still get a higher pick somewhere else.

The last Bruins 7th-rounder to play a game in the NHL was Zach Trotman, and he was drafted in 2010. It's not impossible that Shen would buck the trend, but I wouldn't bet my one chance to trade Kreider on it.


Sometimes, players do this thing where the develop. Frequently, like, pretty much always, they’re worth more, or less than the draft pick that was used on them. Where they were picked doesn’t matter, their play does.
Jan 21 at 8:35
#21
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,212
Likes: 334
Quoting: Bcarlo25
Sometimes, players do this thing where the develop. Frequently, like, pretty much always, they’re worth more, or less than the draft pick that was used on them. Where they were picked doesn’t matter, their play does.


So Shen has 8 points in 30 games at the AHL level. By that measure, you should be willing to trade him for Ralph Cuddemi, who has 5 points in 11 games for Laval. They seem to be about the same on the ice.
Jan 21 at 9:01
#22
Bcarlo25
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 11,887
Likes: 3,430
Quoting: HabsRafiki
So Shen has 8 points in 30 games at the AHL level. By that measure, you should be willing to trade him for Ralph Cuddemi, who has 5 points in 11 games for Laval. They seem to be about the same on the ice.


I made no comment about shen. I made a comment about your logic. There’s also more to hockey than points.
bsilk18 liked this.
Jan 21 at 9:45
#23
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,212
Likes: 334
Quoting: Bcarlo25
I made no comment about shen. I made a comment about your logic. There’s also more to hockey than points.


Not really, you either have to be producing them or stopping them. And generally, teams don't often turn to Russians to be their defensive forwards.

As for being a 7th rounder, sure they sometimes defy the odds. Look at Cayden Primeau. But, again, generally, they show a level of promise when they get to the AHL. Still, the Bruins saw enough to tender a contract, so who knows. It's just not a bet I'd be likely to take.
Jan 22 at 11:05
#24
Skeating_sec224
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 390
Likes: 42
Quoting: Bcarlo25
Bahaha. Who on earth do you think Kreider is?


I don't know, NYR turned a broken down Rick Nash into Ryan Strome, Ryan Lindgren & K'Andre Miller in that deal with Boston. & with BOS , there is a good chance he can resign with them.
Beecher is 3 years away form the NHL as a potential top 6 player.
Heck i';d do Beehcer & BOS 2020 Conditional 2nd round pick (becomes a 2020 1st if BOS makes it to ECF, CK plays in 50% of playoff games( if condition is met, NYR send 2020 3rd (DAL) to BOS)
OR becomes a 2021 1st if CK resigns with BOS in 2020 off season - NYR would send 2021 2nd to BOS if 2nd condition is met is met.
Jan 22 at 11:59
#25
Bcarlo25
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 11,887
Likes: 3,430
Quoting: Skeating622
I don't know, NYR turned a broken down Rick Nash into Ryan Strome, Ryan Lindgren & K'Andre Miller in that deal with Boston. & with BOS , there is a good chance he can resign with them.
Beecher is 3 years away form the NHL as a potential top 6 player.
Heck i';d do Beehcer & BOS 2020 Conditional 2nd round pick (becomes a 2020 1st if BOS makes it to ECF, CK plays in 50% of playoff games( if condition is met, NYR send 2020 3rd (DAL) to BOS)
OR becomes a 2021 1st if CK resigns with BOS in 2020 off season - NYR would send 2021 2nd to BOS if 2nd condition is met is met.


Hypothetically, Beecher can be involved, or a first round pick. Not both, even with conditions
Skeating622 liked this.
 
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