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Deal with Ducks and Sharks

Created by: SammyT_51
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Jan. 25, 2020
Published: Jan. 25, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Trades
1.
ANA
  1. Bracco, Jeremy
  2. Ceci, Cody
  3. Duszak, Joseph
  4. Johnsson, Andreas
Additional Details:
Johnsson+Duszak/Lindgren/Hollowell for Manson (very good RHD prospect plus mid-6/fringe top-6 winger)

Ceci+Bracco for Sherwood.
2.
SJS
  1. Kaskisuo, Kasimir
  2. 2021 5th round pick (TOR)
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
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2021
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2022
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$79,000,477$0$202,500$2,499,523

Roster

Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
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$11,634,000$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
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$10,893,000$10,893,000
RW
UFA - 6
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$925,000$925,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$775,000$775,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, C, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,200,000$3,200,000
RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$694,444$694,444 (Performance Bonus$70,000$70K)
LW
UFA - 1
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$759,167$759,167 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
C
UFA - 1
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$700,000$700,000
C, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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$4,000,000$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
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$2,750,000$2,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$863,333$863,333
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
$2,050,000$2,050,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$894,167$894,167
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$675,000$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$1,900,000$1,900,000
G
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$675,000$675,000
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,300,000$5,300,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,250,000$5,250,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1

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Jan. 25, 2020 at 5:22 a.m.
#1
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Not even close for Manson for me. Sandin or Liljegren+ is what we’d need coming back. Understand that TOR fans wouldn’t want to pay that, but that’s the cost. No need for middling wingers like AJ and subpar prospects.
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Jan. 25, 2020 at 5:23 a.m.
#2
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GM Hockeysaurus Rex
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Quoting: mytduxfan
Not even close for Manson for me. Sandin or Liljegren+ is what we’d need coming back. Understand that TOR fans wouldn’t want to pay that, but that’s the cost. No need for middling wingers like AJ and subpar prospects.


SANDIN OR LILJEGREN+?? You from 2 years ago? Manson is nowhere near what he was.. thats a ridiculous price.
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Jan. 25, 2020 at 5:45 a.m.
#3
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Quoting: SammyT_51
SANDIN OR LILJEGREN+?? You from 2 years ago? Manson is nowhere near what he was.. thats a ridiculous price.


Fine. No Manson. He’s our #1RHD, only 28, has 2.5 years of term left at a reasonable $4m, is liked and works well with our team and management. He’s not being shopped and we have no reason to move him. You’re prospects aren’t worth what you think, but you are welcome to keep them, just like we are welcome to keep Manson.

We don’t need TOR scraps and middling wingers. We have enough young prospects that can/will fill that role. We need a very promising D prospect + coming back. That’s Sandin or Liljegren +. If that price is too steep, fine. Go get Dillon from the Sharks.
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Jan. 25, 2020 at 5:48 a.m.
#4
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Quoting: SammyT_51
SANDIN OR LILJEGREN+?? You from 2 years ago? Manson is nowhere near what he was.. thats a ridiculous price.


Lmao do you think other teams are willing to give the Leafs their good players for free?
Jan. 25, 2020 at 5:52 a.m.
#5
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GM Hockeysaurus Rex
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Quoting: Zwui21
Lmao do you think other teams are willing to give the Leafs their good players for free?


For free eh? Who says free?
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Jan. 25, 2020 at 6:12 a.m.
#6
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Quoting: SammyT_51
For free eh? Who says free?


Sorry, but AJ + Bracco + some undrafted 22 year olds still only playing in the ECHL doesn’t sniff Manson. Then you add Ceci, who has negative value. You’re basically asking Manson for free. There is a little value there, but not much.
Jan. 25, 2020 at 6:14 a.m.
#7
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GM Hockeysaurus Rex
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Edited Jan. 25, 2020 at 6:20 a.m.
Quoting: mytduxfan
Sorry, but AJ + Bracco + some undrafted 22 year olds still only playing in the ECHL doesn’t sniff Manson. Then you add Ceci, who has negative value. You’re basically asking Manson for free. There is a little value there, but not much.


People acting like Andreas Johnsson is worth nothing. Good, good smile I mean.. keep Manson then. He has regressed a lot since 2 years ago and is nowhere near worth anything he was 2 years ago. Thats just true. Johnsson + very good RHD prospect is a fair offer for him, but if you want either future top pairing Dman or future top-4 Dman for him, thats a no-go from Leafs.
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Jan. 25, 2020 at 6:25 a.m.
#8
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Quoting: SammyT_51
People acting like Andreas Johnsson is worth nothing. Good, good smile I mean.. keep Manson then. He has regressed a lot since 2 years ago and is nowhere near worth anything he was 2 years ago. Thats just true. Johnsson + very good RHD prospect is a fair offer for him, but if you want either future top pairing Dman or future top-4 Dman for him, thats a no-go from Leafs.


Kk. Will keep him.
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Jan. 25, 2020 at 6:56 a.m.
#9
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Edited Jan. 25, 2020 at 7:13 a.m.
Quoting: SammyT_51
People acting like Andreas Johnsson is worth nothing. Good, good smile I mean.. keep Manson then. He has regressed a lot since 2 years ago and is nowhere near worth anything he was 2 years ago. Thats just true. Johnsson + very good RHD prospect is a fair offer for him, but if you want either future top pairing Dman or future top-4 Dman for him, thats a no-go from Leafs.


So you're going to get a PROVEN top 4 d man from a teams POSITION OF WEAKNESS and not only not give up a guy who has any shot at replacing him (sry Duszak is not a "very good" d prospect... He has basically 0 value) but fill LITERALLY ZERO of the ducks actual needs, I love Johnsson as a player, but all he'd do on the ducks is add to the clutter of 560000 middle 6 forwards/wingers on this team, so he has basically 0 value to the ducks, and I also don't see much in Bracco even is he was going to a team starved for wingers instead of one that already has way too many, so he has less value than Johnsson, so it's no value+no value+no value (Ceci)+decent value, but A. Not enough for Manson in a vacuum, and B. Has way less value bc the ducks already have like 30 players who can be just as good as Johnsson, oh, and but to mention Manson IS THE ONLY COMPETENT RHD MAN IN THE DUCKS SYSTEM, it would literally take close to five years min to have a decent defense if we trade him and don't get a close replacement, that would be like the leafs trading Freddy (who's actually playing worse relative to his position than Manson this year, Manson is at least still an above average, but not flashy d man) for forward depth, and a guy like Casey Desmith or someone, oh and they'd also not have Wall of Scott in this situation, and their best replacement they get is a low level NHLer, doesn't that sound insane to you lol
oh and let's talk about your leafs d prospect evaluation, your "very good" d spec Joe Duszak, he's a 22 year old playing in the ECHL, is he probably too good for the ECHL, yes, has he shown much in the AHL or anything, no, and while I haven't watched him much this year, i went to quite a few Mercyhurst games last year, and it's not like he's good defensively or anything, Lilja, he'll probably be a good top 4 guy, but there's no lock for that, he's not a sure thing prospect as much as he was a few years ago, his ceiling is probably higher than Manson's ability RN, but there's certainly no guarentee he hits that, imo, he'll probably end up around where Manson is rn (still noticably above average, but no more than a number 3, ideally) and Sandin... Ok he's good, but the best d spec in the league (I did see a few leafs fans say that after the WJC) and he'll probably be a good number 2 or low end number 1
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Jan. 25, 2020 at 8:07 a.m.
#10
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Would be a risk on the Leafs part IMO. Manson's not what he used to be and Johnsson will put up a few 50-60 point seasons in his very near prime.
Jan. 25, 2020 at 9:48 a.m.
#11
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Here's the reality any Dman the Leafs would require will be top 4 , will have term and Lilly will need to be part of the deal to make value work. I know most of leaf fans think Lily is the second coming of Christ but with how shallow d depth is on the Leafs if Lily was on his way to top pair minutes he's be playing bottom pair today. Any deal attempting to aquire Manson, Dumba, Nurse etc would be Kapenen plus Lilly as a base
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Jan. 25, 2020 at 11:47 a.m.
#12
Xx_Zegras46_xX
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Quoting: mytduxfan
Not even close for Manson for me. Sandin or Liljegren+ is what we’d need coming back. Understand that TOR fans wouldn’t want to pay that, but that’s the cost. No need for middling wingers like AJ and subpar prospects.


I completely agree
Jan. 25, 2020 at 1:08 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: Boomer125
Here's the reality any Dman the Leafs would require will be top 4 , will have term and Lilly will need to be part of the deal to make value work. I know most of leaf fans think Lily is the second coming of Christ but with how shallow d depth is on the Leafs if Lily was on his way to top pair minutes he's be playing bottom pair today. Any deal attempting to aquire Manson, Dumba, Nurse etc would be Kapenen plus Lilly as a base


This! You’ve got to give to get. Also, if this is one of TOR’s years to go for it, which it seems to be given their cap situation, you’ve got to sacrifice a little bit of the future to be better now. Even if the futures you trade away end up better than what you got in return, you’re paying for the time saved in waiting for said future to become that player (and the risk they may never reach their ceiling). There is no point in hanging onto prospects and waiting for them to develop whilst your core continues to age.

Of course, this all depends on whether TOR fans feel this is there year to go for it. If not, then you’re better holding onto your prospects and hoping for the best. However, like I said, the cap situation would certainly suggest this is their year to go for it.
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Jan. 25, 2020 at 1:14 p.m.
#14
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GM Hockeysaurus Rex
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Quoting: mytduxfan
This! You’ve got to give to get. Also, if this is one of TOR’s years to go for it, which it seems to be given their cap situation, you’ve got to sacrifice a little bit of the future to be better now. Even if the futures you trade away end up better than what you got in return, you’re paying for the time saved in waiting for said future to become that player (and the risk they may never reach their ceiling). There is no point in hanging onto prospects and waiting for them to develop whilst your core continues to age.

Of course, this all depends on whether TOR fans feel this is there year to go for it. If not, then you’re better holding onto your prospects and hoping for the best. However, like I said, the cap situation would certainly suggest this is their year to go for it.


TORs core is 22-24 years old. They have a ton of time so Dubas wants a deal that would help now, but wouldnt hurt the future. I doubt they would ever move Liljegren or Sandin ever. They spend a lot of time on their development and both look like players that would be key parts of this teams future. I think Manson would be a nice fit in Toronto and I think Leafs would offer a lot of things for him, including Kapanen, but I doubt it would be Liljegren, Sandin, Robertson or whoever.. beacuse as you said. Cap reasons. They need young cheap options who would do job properly and have talent to develop into key contributors.
Jan. 25, 2020 at 1:39 p.m.
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Quoting: SammyT_51
TORs core is 22-24 years old. They have a ton of time so Dubas wants a deal that would help now, but wouldnt hurt the future. I doubt they would ever move Liljegren or Sandin ever. They spend a lot of time on their development and both look like players that would be key parts of this teams future. I think Manson would be a nice fit in Toronto and I think Leafs would offer a lot of things for him, including Kapanen, but I doubt it would be Liljegren, Sandin, Robertson or whoever.. beacuse as you said. Cap reasons. They need young cheap options who would do job properly and have talent to develop into key contributors.


If a package of Kapenen and Lilly plus a mid rnd pick can aquire a Dumba it makes the Leafs better now and for the foreseeable future. Yes the core is 22-25 years old all locked up for 5 or more seasons, Dumba is the same age group. Gives the Leafs a window of 4 or so seasons
Jan. 25, 2020 at 1:41 p.m.
#16
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GM Hockeysaurus Rex
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Quoting: Boomer125
If a package of Kapenen and Lilly plus a mid rnd pick can aquire a Dumba it makes the Leafs better now and for the foreseeable future. Yes the core is 22-25 years old all locked up for 5 or more seasons, Dumba is the same age group. Gives the Leafs a window of 4 or so seasons


Dumba is what they have in barrie tho, defensively bad offensive defenseman and I dont think they want any more of them besides Rielly.. Dumba is not an answer for me tbh. Especially not if Liljegren who is developing into two-way Dman who can do everything (PPs, PKs, 5v5) is going the other way.
Jan. 25, 2020 at 1:52 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: SammyT_51
TORs core is 22-24 years old. They have a ton of time so Dubas wants a deal that would help now, but wouldnt hurt the future. I doubt they would ever move Liljegren or Sandin ever. They spend a lot of time on their development and both look like players that would be key parts of this teams future. I think Manson would be a nice fit in Toronto and I think Leafs would offer a lot of things for him, including Kapanen, but I doubt it would be Liljegren, Sandin, Robertson or whoever.. beacuse as you said. Cap reasons. They need young cheap options who would do job properly and have talent to develop into key contributors.


Tavares is 29. That’s your C depth right there and, IMO, without that C depth TOR gets outclassed by better teams. Admittedly, JT is years away from slowing down (barring injury). However, you haven’t got the 8-10 years on him that you have with Matthews, Marner, Nylander. Dubas will be considering this. To me, the Marleau trade was an “all-in” play for this season, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Dubas is willing to move futures like Lilj (maybe not Sandin) for help now. However, I could be completely wrong on that.

Anyway, I understand that you want to keep Lil and Sandin for cap considerations + age + looking like promising players. Makes sense. However, eventually, you have to give up the future for the now. Any team in a position to help you is going to be a bottom feeder and looking at the future. They won’t want AJ or KK + scraps + cap dumps for their good players. Their valuable assets need to be converted into young prospects that have the upside to justify giving up their good players in the first place. Otherwise, they lose out. With that said, no team ever got better taking on middle 6 wingers + long shot bottom pairing D prospects + dumps + mid-round picks for their top players. It’s just an unrealistic expectation.
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Jan. 25, 2020 at 2:34 p.m.
#18
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Quoting: SammyT_51
Dumba is what they have in barrie tho, defensively bad offensive defenseman and I dont think they want any more of them besides Rielly.. Dumba is not an answer for me tbh. Especially not if Liljegren who is developing into two-way Dman who can do everything (PPs, PKs, 5v5) is going the other way.


They are 2 totally different players Dumba and Barrie, Barrie is flashy skilled offensive Dman, Dumba is more simple in offense less flash more meat and potatoes, this fictional strictly defensive Dman will not fit with the possession game that Dman fits great with dump and chase but you need a Dman who can skate the puck out of trouble rather than chuck it up the boards. I'm assuming your Josh Manson fan? Manson will not succeed on the Leafs or solve any defensive deficiencies this team as a single player he will look out of place in my opinion, I view Dumba as a poor man's 2014/15 Subban, has some defensive liabilities but is generally dependable, hits well, can shot from the blue line and can also skate the puck out of the zone
Jan. 25, 2020 at 3:33 p.m.
#19
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I dont see why sharks do this, we dont need a fifth bad enough to help you out
Jan. 26, 2020 at 1:25 p.m.
#20
Once a Kings Fan Too
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Quoting: mytduxfan
Fine. No Manson. He’s our #1RHD, only 28, has 2.5 years of term left at a reasonable $4m, is liked and works well with our team and management. He’s not being shopped and we have no reason to move him. You’re prospects aren’t worth what you think, but you are welcome to keep them, just like we are welcome to keep Manson.

We don’t need TOR scraps and middling wingers. We have enough young prospects that can/will fill that role. We need a very promising D prospect + coming back. That’s Sandin or Liljegren +. If that price is too steep, fine. Go get Dillon from the Sharks.


You know, the more I read this thread (i.e., going back to it today with more comments after reading through it yesterday) and this comment and the others you've made in it, the more I like this explanation.
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