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Who says no

Created by: MapleLeafs97
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Jan. 28, 2020
Published: Jan. 28, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Trades
1.
2.
TOR
  1. 2020 5th round pick (ANA)
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
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2021
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2022
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$78,007,977$0$202,500$3,492,023

Roster

Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,634,000$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$10,893,000$10,893,000
RW
UFA - 6
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$1,850,000$1,850,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,400,000$3,400,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, C, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$775,000$775,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$675,000$675,000
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
C, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$1,062,500$1,062,500
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,000,000$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$675,000$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$894,167$894,167
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,750,000$2,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,300,000$5,300,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$694,444$694,444 (Performance Bonus$70,000$70K)
LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,250,000$5,250,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$767,500$767,500 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1

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Jan. 28, 2020 at 10:31 a.m.
#1
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Everyone says no
Columbus trade is by far one of the worst I’ve seen in the past week
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Jan. 28, 2020 at 10:31 a.m.
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Any one of those two teams Toronto trades to, as long as they have a brain
Jan. 28, 2020 at 10:34 a.m.
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Quoting: Howyoudrouinnn
Any one of those two teams Toronto trades to, as long as they have a brain


So you just saw a Leafs trade and said "Leafs win" without looking at anything didn't you.
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Jan. 28, 2020 at 10:35 a.m.
#4
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
So you just saw a Leafs trade and said "Leafs win" without looking at anything didn't you.


Surprisingly no.

I looked at the CBJ trade and realized CBJ would be stupid to give up a potential 30 goal scorer and one of their top dmen for Kap and a downgrade on D.

the ANA is silly, no one is taking Ceci's contract and helping the leafs for a 5th.
Jan. 28, 2020 at 10:36 a.m.
#5
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
So you just saw a Leafs trade and said "Leafs win" without looking at anything didn't you.


Seems like par for this course.
Jan. 28, 2020 at 10:38 a.m.
#6
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Quoting: Howyoudrouinnn
Surprisingly no.

I looked at the CBJ trade and realized CBJ would be stupid to give up a potential 30 goal scorer and one of their top dmen for Kap and a downgrade on D.

the ANA is silly, no one is taking Ceci's contract and helping the leafs for a 5th.

They are getting a player with far better potential to be a 30 goal scorer.
Jan. 28, 2020 at 10:42 a.m.
#7
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Quoting: Howyoudrouinnn
Surprisingly no.

I looked at the CBJ trade and realized CBJ would be stupid to give up a potential 30 goal scorer and one of their top dmen for Kap and a downgrade on D.

the ANA is silly, no one is taking Ceci's contract and helping the leafs for a 5th.


Yeah, I guess you are right, Anderson only needs another 29 goals to get there.
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Jan. 28, 2020 at 10:43 a.m.
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Quoting: Jamiepo
They are getting a player with far better potential to be a 30 goal scorer.


in 3 years (including this one so far) Kap has 37 goals combined over 166 games
In 3 years (including this one so far) Anderson has 47 goals combined over 171 games.

10 more goals in 5 more games played. But kApAnEn Is BeTtEr
Jan. 28, 2020 at 10:52 a.m.
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Quoting: Howyoudrouinnn
in 3 years (including this one so far) Kap has 37 goals combined over 166 games
In 3 years (including this one so far) Anderson has 47 goals combined over 171 games.

10 more goals in 5 more games played. But kApAnEn Is BeTtEr


Averages don't matter though, neither does age, or recent history. The only thing that matters is what makes your argument seem rational. That is the best way to argue on Cap friendly. By just being bias and cherry picking numbers that don't mean anything
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Jan. 28, 2020 at 10:52 a.m.
#10
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Quoting: Howyoudrouinnn
in 3 years (including this one so far) Kap has 37 goals combined over 166 games
In 3 years (including this one so far) Anderson has 47 goals combined over 171 games.

10 more goals in 5 more games played. But kApAnEn Is BeTtEr


Kapanen in younger, and yes he is better. His game is developing very nicely.

Anderson had one great season. Kappy does have 10 times more goals this season and that is on a relatively slow goal scoring pace for him.

You can try and make dummy posts all you want but any person who would take Anderson over Kappy is the real dummy.
Jan. 28, 2020 at 10:55 a.m.
#11
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You mean other than Anaheim and Columbus? ... No one, I guess.
Jan. 28, 2020 at 11:18 a.m.
#12
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Quoting: TCMonkey
You mean other than Anaheim and Columbus? ... No one, I guess.


Anyone who says the Columbus trade isn't a slam dunk win for them just hates the Leafs. A younger better forward and a younger defenceman with much more upside is going to Columbus for a guy with 1 goal and a 29 year old 20 point #4 defenceman. That isn't equal.
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Jan. 28, 2020 at 11:28 a.m.
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Anyone who says the Columbus trade isn't a slam dunk win for them just hates the Leafs. A younger better forward and a younger defenceman with much more upside is going to Columbus for a guy with 1 goal and a 29 year old 20 point #4 defenceman. That isn't equal.


I'm not sure I would consider it a slam dunk, the intent of this post was to see what everyone thought about trading away some youth, skill and contractual control for some grit, toughness and defensive capabilities. It sure is interesting to see the varying opinions... nice work all. I am just hoping that those who value Anderson as an untouchable potential 30 goal scoring bruiser realize that Columbus is quite willing to move him before they have to deal with arbitration or even worse.. Derren Ferris..
Jan. 28, 2020 at 11:34 a.m.
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Quoting: MapleLeafs97
I'm not sure I would consider it a slam dunk, the intent of this post was to see what everyone thought about trading away some youth, skill and contractual control for some grit, toughness and defensive capabilities. It sure is interesting to see the varying opinions... nice work all. I am just hoping that those who value Anderson as an untouchable potential 30 goal scoring bruiser realize that Columbus is quite willing to move him before they have to deal with arbitration or even worse.. Derren Ferris..


Its a bad trade for the Leafs. Kapanen is better than Anderson, there isn't a debate there. Anderson had a great season and while this is likely as much of an outlier season as his big one, I think he's a 30 point 15 goal 3rd liner at his usual self. Savard is just a #4 defenceman, he's nothing special. Good, but nothing special. Dermott is currently good with a lot of enticing attributes that make him worth keeping. Also he's the 2nd grittiest defenceman on the Leafs.

If the price for defensive help is this steep, I think its worth rolling the dice with what you have and telling the players its up to them to be better defensively. Its far wiser than massively overpaying for small upgrades or no upgrades at all.
Jan. 28, 2020 at 11:48 a.m.
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Its a bad trade for the Leafs. Kapanen is better than Anderson, there isn't a debate there. Anderson had a great season and while this is likely as much of an outlier season as his big one, I think he's a 30 point 15 goal 3rd liner at his usual self. Savard is just a #4 defenceman, he's nothing special. Good, but nothing special. Dermott is currently good with a lot of enticing attributes that make him worth keeping. Also he's the 2nd grittiest defenceman on the Leafs.

If the price for defensive help is this steep, I think its worth rolling the dice with what you have and telling the players its up to them to be better defensively. Its far wiser than massively overpaying for small upgrades or no upgrades at all.


Meh, better or not can be an argument.. filling the leafs holes/weaknesses - there is no argument. Kapanen left the game last night without returning and it had no impact on the game, throw Anderson out there and you would have an immediate impact, he is everything that the leafs lack.. Clearly, you haven't watched enough of his games if you think there is no room for debate there
Jan. 28, 2020 at 11:53 a.m.
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Quoting: MapleLeafs97
Meh, better or not can be an argument.. filling the leafs holes/weaknesses - there is no argument. Kapanen left the game last night without returning and it had no impact on the game, throw Anderson out there and you would have an immediate impact, he is everything that the leafs lack.. Clearly, you haven't watched enough of his games if you think there is no room for debate there


I have watched enough to see that Kapanen as way more tools. He's extremely fast, can score, plays good defence and can kill penalties. I'm also of the mind that the "Toughness" this team needs isn't bruisers, they could get a little mentally tougher but that comes with experience. A team that hits a lot isn't necessarily tough, a team that will never relent, push hard constantly and win battles is the tough that is needed in the playoffs. TO can be that kind of toughness, they just need to learn how. Last year against Boston, the Leafs "toughest" player helped them to lose the series. Kadri losing his mind and getting suspended again did nothing for the team. Their PK cost them as well. Having guys running around throwing wild hits is just an old school fantasy. Being smart and fighting through the tight checking of the playoffs is the toughness that is needed. Anderson doesn't have that. He's just a bottom 6 physical winger with 1 goal this season.
Jan. 28, 2020 at 12:00 p.m.
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Anyone who says the Columbus trade isn't a slam dunk win for them just hates the Leafs. A younger better forward and a younger defenceman with much more upside is going to Columbus for a guy with 1 goal and a 29 year old 20 point #4 defenceman. That isn't equal.


CBJ are in a playoff spot. Toronto isn't. Toronto needs to fix their D, and Savard is far better in his own end than Dermott. FAR BETTER. He has more than double the hits and 3 times as many blocked shots. Savard also plays over 5 minutes more per game. Why would Columbus make that trade right now? DON'T SAY it's because Kapenen - Anderson swap makes up for it. It doesn't. They are virtually the same in terms of P/gp over their career and Anderson has not had the benefit of playing with the same talent as Kapenen. Anderson fired 230 shots on net last season and had a shooting percentage of 11% (career avg of 10.5%). This year he still has 63 shots (in 23 games) compared to Kapenen's 86 shots in 50 games, (so he's still getting more shots per games with less talented line mates) but is shooting an insane career low 1.6%. It's a blip that will not last. Kapenen is faster and younger, but far less physical. I think Anderson would be GREAT in Kapenen spot! If the trade offer were 1 for 1; Kap for Anderson... CBJ probably jumps on it, but if you're trying to get Savard too it'll cost you much more than Dermott.
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Jan. 28, 2020 at 12:23 p.m.
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Columbus declines. Savard is more important to Columbus then adding yet another middle 6 RW and yet another LHD.... Savard is portably our best defensive defenseman who can be offensive when he needs to be. I doubt Columbus entertains this trade for very long as Anderson also plays a much different style then Kapanen does... Kapanen plays the same style that Bjorkstrand, Atkinson and Bremstrom play and as we have 3 of them already, we don’t really want or need a 4th RW to play the same style.
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Jan. 28, 2020 at 12:24 p.m.
#19
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Quoting: TCMonkey
CBJ are in a playoff spot. Toronto isn't. Toronto needs to fix their D, and Savard is far better in his own end than Dermott. FAR BETTER. He has more than double the hits and 3 times as many blocked shots. Savard also plays over 5 minutes more per game. Why would Columbus make that trade right now? DON'T SAY it's because Kapenen - Anderson swap makes up for it. It doesn't. They are virtually the same in terms of P/gp over their career and Anderson has not had the benefit of playing with the same talent as Kapenen. Anderson fired 230 shots on net last season and had a shooting percentage of 11% (career avg of 10.5%). This year he still has 63 shots (in 23 games) compared to Kapenen's 86 shots in 50 games, (so he's still getting more shots per games with less talented line mates) but is shooting an insane career low 1.6%. It's a blip that will not last. Kapenen is faster and younger, but far less physical. I think Anderson would be GREAT in Kapenen spot! If the trade offer were 1 for 1; Kap for Anderson... CBJ probably jumps on it, but if you're trying to get Savard too it'll cost you much more than Dermott.


Columbus is not going to make the playoffs. They have been on a crazy heater for a while and when it levels off, they'll fall back to earth and drop out. Whatever your reasoning is, I don't care. This trade is bad for the Leafs.
Jan. 28, 2020 at 12:25 p.m.
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
I have watched enough to see that Kapanen as way more tools. He's extremely fast, can score, plays good defence and can kill penalties. I'm also of the mind that the "Toughness" this team needs isn't bruisers, they could get a little mentally tougher but that comes with experience. A team that hits a lot isn't necessarily tough, a team that will never relent, push hard constantly and win battles is the tough that is needed in the playoffs. TO can be that kind of toughness, they just need to learn how. Last year against Boston, the Leafs "toughest" player helped them to lose the series. Kadri losing his mind and getting suspended again did nothing for the team. Their PK cost them as well. Having guys running around throwing wild hits is just an old school fantasy. Being smart and fighting through the tight checking of the playoffs is the toughness that is needed. Anderson doesn't have that. He's just a bottom 6 physical winger with 1 goal this season.


So which one of those listed "tools" does Anderson not have?. He actually had one more short handed point than Kap had last year. Kap has a bit better hands, but they like to disappear for games on end. Anderson is a physical presence that makes opposing players think twice before every play. If Kap was as good as you think he is, he would be playing in the top 6, just because he can skate as fast or faster than the top competition doesn't mean he belongs there. The leafs have tried him numerous times in the top 6 on the left side with very limited other options and end up always resorting to them over Kap. He just doesn't think the game at the pace of top 6 player, and if you can't do that then you need to go out and retrieve the puck and stand in front of the net like Hyman, which he has also failed at.

You make good points about playoffs but they work in favour of Anderson, Im assuming you didn't watch any of the columbus v tampa series where Anderson was an absolute machine. If the leafs could get another guy to go out there and work like Hyman does in playoffs, they would be laughing.

Columbus would absolutely love to have you on their side for contract negotiations with Anderson, if they could get him for the same deal as leafs signed Kapanen - they would have done it already

In the end, the leafs have 10 players or more in their system that can provide what Kapanen does and they have zero that can provide what Anderson does. If you can't see that, then you probably think the leafs would be better off with Gardiner than Muzzin
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Jan. 28, 2020 at 12:46 p.m.
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Quoting: MapleLeafs97
So which one of those listed "tools" does Anderson not have?. He actually had one more short handed point than Kap had last year. Kap has a bit better hands, but they like to disappear for games on end. Anderson is a physical presence that makes opposing players think twice before every play. If Kap was as good as you think he is, he would be playing in the top 6, just because he can skate as fast or faster than the top competition doesn't mean he belongs there. The leafs have tried him numerous times in the top 6 on the left side with very limited other options and end up always resorting to them over Kap. He just doesn't think the game at the pace of top 6 player, and if you can't do that then you need to go out and retrieve the puck and stand in front of the net like Hyman, which he has also failed at.

You make good points about playoffs but they work in favour of Anderson, Im assuming you didn't watch any of the columbus v tampa series where Anderson was an absolute machine. If the leafs could get another guy to go out there and work like Hyman does in playoffs, they would be laughing.

Columbus would absolutely love to have you on their side for contract negotiations with Anderson, if they could get him for the same deal as leafs signed Kapanen - they would have done it already

In the end, the leafs have 10 players or more in their system that can provide what Kapanen does and they have zero that can provide what Anderson does. If you can't see that, then you probably think the leafs would be better off with Gardiner than Muzzin


Cool story, Kapanen is better, and I don't put a premium on hits.
Jan. 28, 2020 at 1:06 p.m.
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Cool story, Kapanen is better, and I don't put a premium on hits.


Strap the skates on with both and let me know which one you would prefer to have on your team.. oh ya and remember there is still body contact in the NHL, unlike beer league.

Can't wait to review this when Anderson gets his new contract lined up for next year
Jan. 28, 2020 at 1:13 p.m.
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Quoting: MapleLeafs97
Strap the skates on with both and let me know which one you would prefer to have on your team.. oh ya and remember there is still body contact in the NHL, unlike beer league.

Can't wait to review this when Anderson gets his new contract lined up for next year


I play hockey and if I could be compared to either of these two it would be Anderson. I am hard to play against, I use my body and can be chippy. I also just don't have the skill that other guys have and considering Kap plays with an edge as well, I don't think you really know what you are trading here. One is physical and had a really good season once. The other is younger, more skilled, faster, and better defensively. Kap is also under contract for 2 more seasons and doesn't have the worst agent in Hockey.
Jan. 28, 2020 at 1:35 p.m.
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
I play hockey and if I could be compared to either of these two it would be Anderson. I am hard to play against, I use my body and can be chippy. I also just don't have the skill that other guys have and considering Kap plays with an edge as well, I don't think you really know what you are trading here. One is physical and had a really good season once. The other is younger, more skilled, faster, and better defensively. Kap is also under contract for 2 more seasons and doesn't have the worst agent in Hockey.


So your point is that you play like Anderson so a more skilled guy compliments you better? Well, the highly skilled leafs could use a guy like Anderson to compliment them.

Elite hockey IQ is what separates the top 6 guys/ high potential guys from the rest. They can see the game at a level above the rest, the leafs are pretty lucky in having 34, 16 and 88 who can. Kap just doesn't see the game at their level, the skills are there - he looks talented and smart with 3rd line competition but any higher than that in the lineup and he needs to play a more of a grinder role. Anderson doesn;t have it either and is better at that complimentary role than Kap. There is a reason why Hyman with a quarter the skill of Kap is so successful in the top 6 and Kap is ghost when moved up the lineup. It;s not something he is going to pick up over time... his highest value is now
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Jan. 28, 2020 at 1:39 p.m.
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Quoting: MapleLeafs97
So your point is that you play like Anderson so a more skilled guy compliments you better? Well, the highly skilled leafs could use a guy like Anderson to compliment them.

Elite hockey IQ is what separates the top 6 guys/ high potential guys from the rest. They can see the game at a level above the rest, the leafs are pretty lucky in having 34, 16 and 88 who can. Kap just doesn't see the game at their level, the skills are there - he looks talented and smart with 3rd line competition but any higher than that in the lineup and he needs to play a more of a grinder role. Anderson doesn;t have it either and is better at that complimentary role than Kap. There is a reason why Hyman with a quarter the skill of Kap is so successful in the top 6 and Kap is ghost when moved up the lineup. It;s not something he is going to pick up over time... his highest value is now


Kap can't play his off wing and isn't as good as the two Elite RW ahead of him. That is why he doesn't play higher up. Playing your off wing isn't easy. Anderson would probably do really well in TO but his value is at an all time low (literally 1 goal), trading a younger better player just because you think you need a tough guy is just ridiculous.
 
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