why are the flyers taking ceci

Because people think NHL teams will help the leafs out of their cap hell, not sure if the NHL actually works like that, never has before

That good but maybe a lot for dumba

Dubas might have done that trade in November 2019 when Dumba was playing great and he was struggling to sign Nylander. Today when Dumba is struggling and Nylander has played really well this year? I can't see the Leafs doing this.

Maybe we don't trade Nylander for a guy who hasn't proven he's the player he was before injury... or, like... ever.

(no comment)

Sure. Keep doing the same thing. Top heavy forward group, weak blue line. See what happens.

Pre-injury Dumba I have a lot of time for. This current version whose numbers have cratered, I have concerns. Especially selling Nylander, who I am very high on.

Your concerns are legit. I, however, see him returning to his old form recently...and i have complete belief in him as a person and as a player. He will soon be a bonafide #1 RHD again, bet on it.

You don't trade Nylander before Kapanen, Johnsson, Kerfoot, or other non-Big 4 players. You just don't. And is Dumba even particularly good defensively? I have doubts. Is he healthy? I have concerns. But, sure let's sell a player on the verge of breaking out for potentially damaged goods.

I sincerely hope he does. I just personally wouldn't want to bet a 30-40 goal, 23-year-old player with the least overpaying contract of the Big-4 on it. And I doubt Minny could be talked into taking less (and that's their right).

It wouldn’t be good for the cap
If I’m being honest, I don’t think the leafs will trade for dumba
But in reality it would be hard to afford

I don't see it, either. Maybe in the offseason with more cap space to play with and some assets to move around.

They won’t get dumba unless they plan on trading kapanen for a rental

Well, this is kind of the issue i have with leaf logic. You’re right, the leafs should look to trade guys outside their top four forwards for defensive help. That’s all well and good, but those kind of guys aren’t going to get the leafs names like Dumba. It doesn’t make much sense for us to go back and forth on our opinion of Dumba. You’re not going to convince me, and I’m not going to convince you. That said, let’s just say we’re dealing with player X. Player X is a defensemen that can play on the top pair for a Stanley cup contender, which is what the leafs are trying to become. Teams aren’t going to trade player X for guys like Kapanen and Johnsson. There’s no motivation for them to do so. Maybe in a perfect world there’s a rebuilding team that is okay with letting go of a top pair guy for a bevy of assets, including first round picks, prospects, and roster players like Kapanen, but I don’t see such an opportunity right now.

Can this Dumba stupidity ends already, TML has enough two-way wingers playing D .......

The issue we're going to have is I don't think the Leafs need a guy anyone has decided is a "top pairing guy for a cup contender". Those guys are not available, for one, they cost far too much to acquire, and the Leafs need more than one guy, anyway. They aren't one guy away. Not if that guy takes away a premium piece of your offense that you don't have anyone to step in for.

No, Kap can't get you a star. What Kap can get you is a Top-4 guy, and I have no problem with a deep group of T4 guys. Rielly, Muzzin, Barrie, Holl, and someone like Manson (most immediately example). See if Vegas will move McNabb. Take a look at Carolina's D core to see if something can be found. Larsson in EDM for cheap? Well, maybe he's just an improvement on Ceci... whatever. I'm not sure. Would they be big, noticeable names like Pietroangelo? Doughty? No. But they fill a role and function the Leafs need at far less of a cost.

Also, Dumba is a T4. Superstar potential but he's not healthy and if we trade Nylander for someone who turns out to be a shell of their former selves... that's a disaster.

Sure. Go after Manson. Kapanen doesn’t get you there.

Carolina has three awesome d men. Kapanen doesn’t get you close to any of them. Want edmunson? Okay, maybe they talk about that. You want the 19 minute McNabb? Okay. Sure. I don’t think that kind of addition gets the leafs there. Maybe three additions like that, maybe.

Agreed but player x is not Dumba

hey stop maybe

Woooooosh

I'd rather see what a package around Kapanen gets you than trade a blossoming star to overpay for some big name that likely doesn't end up as good as their hype would suggest.