it would have said mentally stupid (fill in the blank), so it describes you and greg

What about Jack Campbell and TOR's new found commitment of $1.6M for a player with a .900 SV% do you like?

I've said I like the toughness Clifford brings. Is he a situational player to swap into spots when toughness is needed...sure. Does he have a....career high...of 21 points...sure. Does he have....career average...of 10 minutes...sure.

How about this. Nick Roberston and Cody Ceci for Drake Caggulia? would you do it?

In all fairness, when was the last time a blockbuster trade for a top tier player actually led to a Stanley Cup? There aren't many. It's typically been depth moves that lead to championships.

I'm really not tho....just saying it's a trade giving away moderate stuff that's not going to help to bring in moderate stuff that might help us. I agree, they got marginally better, and they gave away marginal assets to do so. You're making it out to be way more dramatic than it really is.

I think this is a pretty fair analysis. The conditional is probably too easy, and that's a bit rough. The cap hit next year for a bad goalie is probably harder, but Dubas is going for it. AND it's not like it's a 1st rounder.

Where?? do you fail to see Campbell is not that much better than Hutch?? and what other area did you address? TOR has the most F depth in the league, you just added to it by removing a 2nd and a 3rd? What am I missing

It's definitely a fair comment and something that raised an eyebrow. But Kyle has a certain degree of comfort with campbell and, I'm guessing in his evaluation, Campbell is the guy he wants as backup for the next couple years and the $1.6 is worth it. If he is comfortable with the player, he was likely comfortable giving up the assets and cap in order to address the need...not just for this year...but for the next few.

Whether or not that need has been ultimately filled with Campbell remains to be seen

How is Hutch by any standard better than Campbell, Campbell had a .928 sv pct last year with one of the worst teams in the NHL, obviously it's down this year but its the Kings, he has potential with us.

and we need grit, it's clear that a lot of the team is soft

yes i know we need defense, we all know this

I personally think if you get marginally better, you dont do it by trading a 2nd + 3rd, but thats just me. Package those picks along w/ a 1st + better roster player to ACTUALLY make an impact on this roster. I don't think marginally better gets them to the playoffs/make a run.

I'm not saying you're wrong. BUT I have to admit...on behalf of TOR fans here. I vouch for Stan Bowman at times for his TDL trades...because he was going for it. (2) 2nd roudners for 4 minutes ATOI of Kimo Timmonen… TERRIBLE trade value wise, but they won the cup that year. So, I'm happy. Time will tell.

Time will tell, I just know how pissed I would be if Jim Rutherford (Pens) made a trade like this. (not for same assets but making us marginally better at this cost)

For the record, If I were GM JR I would've hopped all over this return for DeSmith if possible.

Then it's simply disagreeing over personal opinions, not facts. Which is fine, welcome and healthy on these boards.

I'd have to look it back up, but the odds of a draft pick making the NHL between the 20th-31st overall pick is something like 50-50....and drops off dramatically from there. So the probabilities show that those mid round draft picks are more likely to never make the NHL then they are to make it. That's why I refer to them as marginal assets because it's unlikely (certainly not impossible) that the guys drafted with those picks will ever register in my brain...ever.

Moore is a young, small, skilled forward with decent speed and a willingness to go to the net. The Kings are an old, slow team that desperately needs to get younger and faster. I hope Moore does well for them there.

The leafs are the opposite. They are a young, fast, skilled team that lacks veteran grit and leadership (Keefe has recently mentioned 'maturity' as an issue). If I'm starting a team today, I'd rather have Moore than Clifford. But the leafs are deep on the depth chart with skilled wingers and Moore is very easily replaced in the lineup with someone similar. We could use a guy like Clifford who can play 10min on the 4th line, or maybe more because his skill set isn't found elsewhere in this lineup. But he's a component they didn't have, kind of wanted, but probably didn't want to give up a lot to acquire.

Would someone like Tom Wilson, Ryan Reaves, Matt Tkachuk be better? Sure. Were they available? No. So you're automatically picking from depth guys to address that need.

As for Goalie, the leafs have their starter in Andersen. IMO, it would be a terrible move to give up a 1st in order to land a backup that is better than Campbell.

So, for me, Dubas made the team a bit better, without giving up a major asset or any cap space this year. The 1st rounder you're talking about to get an impact player? That should be used (if necessary), on a 20min defenceman...not someone to improve the bottom six or backup goalie.

This is a minor move (it seems more dramatic given the goaltending situation), with hopefully a bigger one to come

LOL how the hell do you think LA "100%" won this deal? That's a joke. Wake up a bit.



LOL you look at this in such a linear way that your blindsided by how much it improves the team.

Team adds a reliable back up that allows them to rest their starter more so he's ready for playoffs. Also if Freddy needs to be pulled in a playoff game, it gives them someone more reliable to fill in. You do that by adding a goalie who's making less than league minimum and is signed to a very reasonable 2 year extension after this year. That adds more value to a trade.

You add a 4th liner with a bit of grit and a good penalty killer. That allows the star players to play a bit less worrisome about being ran over cause they have a guy that can stick up for them if needed. It also allows the team to give a few less minutes to key players like Kapanen on the penalty kill if needed which makes him more rested and deadly at 5 on 5 or on the PP. That adds significant value.

And all the team gave up for that much of an improvement was 700K in cap space and basically a couple 3rd round picks which are at minimum 3-5 years away from making any kinda impact in the league, and may never? Moore was a throw in. He lost his spot on this team when he got injured and the depth came in and played well. He's a bottom 6 forward that was thrown in for roster size reasons and because he's from LA. When you upgrade a bottom 6/depth player to a for sure 4th liner and back up goalie, that is FAR from a "marginal upgrade". Yes this team still needs another d-man. The entire fan base sees that. And this move doesn't make the team a legit contender, but it definitely puts them in the right direction.

Learn something about hockey before you post such stupid things just to try to poke fun at a fan base of a team that you don't like. You make yourself look like a complete fool by posting such ignorant things like this.

@Ryminister_27 You don't like Hutch, but you got a different Hutch... and paid double salary... for 2 years... without him ever playing a game for you... and gave up futures...There's zero way that's a W for TOR.

you make yourself look stupid by over analyzing a pretty straightforward argument.

2nd + 3rd + the best player in the deal is an overpay to fill 2 "needs" (grit & backup G)

& when you fill those needs, it's marginal improvements.

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At the end of the day we definitely have different opinions and like you said, that's good! Wouldn't be any fun on these forums if everyone agreed lol.

Also at the end of the day My thoughts are that they could've gotten more back when trading their 2nd + 3rd, but maybe the market is just too steep this year, idk.

Lol. Campbell is much younger and is less than 1 year removed from a good season. He has better numbers this season on a far worse LA team. Put him behind a better team like Toronto and his numbers are bound to increase. And all the team gave up for him was basically a 3rd round pick in next years draft. There's a good chance that pick never develops.. how you think that's a total loss for Toronto is a joke. LOL you Leafs haters make for some great content though.

The conditions are pretty easy to make is a 2nd rounder. Are you giving up Nick Robertson for this trade....didn't think so.

Are you dumb? They gave up (2) thirds (one of which is going to end up a 2nd for a 12th/13th F and Campbell..

And to say Campbell is going to a "better" team is kind of true.. Toronto statistically gives up more goals than LA, soooooo....

It doesn't matter that the 2nd + 3rd may never amount to nothing, the fact is you paid 2 good assets for 2 ones that aren't good..

LOL. Guess you can't read or comprehend a message from what I said then. I literally just explained how it's more than just what the players bring. Guess you missed that though.

It's also only 2 3rd round picks. Nothing at this point guarantees the puck turns into a 2nd. And a 3rd round pick has less than a 25% chance of even making the league.. for 2 guys who are 100% NHL players right now when the team is trying to in a cup. Yeah. That's totally a massive overpayment though. LOL ?

I actually agree with you that nothings guaranteed. Are you hoping TOR misses the playoffs? You do WANT to give up the 2nd...right?

You're on something dude.. So the trade isn't for solely what these guys bring?? What're you trading for then?

I guess you can't comprehend the fact your team gave up a 2nd + 3rd + the best player in the deal (Moore) for a 8-10min a night 4th line LW and a backup who is marginally better than yours right now.

Freddy will be back in no more than a week. Chances of Campbell even playing 6 games are slim let alone getting 6 wins and the team having to make playoffs. Clifford most likely walks to UFA and re-signs in LA this summer.. conditions then not met and it's a 3rd round pick that goes. It's also a pick in a weaker draft class..



Read what I said above above the pick.

Also, LOL of you think a better team is purely defined on just stats and goals against, you need to learn a great deal about hockey before you even think about posting again. LOL thanks for the funny content though.

Toronto can make the playoffs and still only give up a 3rd..

LOL literally read my initial post again and learn something kid.

& again, there's no guarantee whatsoever that it's a 2nd. & giving up 2 3rd round picks for an upgrade is far from an overpayment. LOL